toughest steel in a folder

PatriotDan said:
Here's some more hard use knives:
Becker Extreme BK-77 S30V
Spyderco Manix S30V
All current Striders S30V
Chris Reeve Green Berets S30V
AlMar Sere S30V
Gerber LMF II 12C27
Of course, then there's the KaBar Extreme in D2.
And Kershaw Outcast was D2 I think?
Fallkniven uses VG-10 laminate I believe.
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Well, I've seen a couple broken BK7s, and there's really no reason to expect the S30V extreme version to be tougher. You can check out www.knifetests.com to see a 50100B model break.

The Green Beret is run fairly soft, which actually makes me wonder why they chose S30V to begin with.

The SERE is a 1/8" blade, not so much hard use when compared to the 1/4" or 5/16" knives, but I would consider that closer to what S30V is better suited to.

12C27 is considered a tough stainless steel, it is also quite cheap, as in used in plastic handled Moras under $10.

I think the Outcast in D2 was just a bad idea all around.

The VG10 laminate has 420J2 sides for toughness.
 
knarfeng said:
So Patriot Dan,
Spyderco and other premium chose S30V for the same reason that we blade people look for it. S30V has excellent edge retention and good toughness for that level of edge retention in a stainless steel. And most descriminating knife people, myself included, place a premium on edge retention.
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knarfeng said:
But if it came to pure toughness, and remember that was the original question, 440A and 440B would outperform it. That is why big stainless blades (over 6" long) are usually made from 440A or 440B, not S30V or D2. And of course t1mpani is correct, non-stainless is in a whole other league.
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Agreed. My original answer for pure toughness was S-7. It hasn't got a super edge retention and I said that too. I like it though. Fits my use great and Justin's knives are knives you can depend on.

With stainless, like I said, I just can't find any data to convince me that 420/440a wins s30v in toughness. No tests that prove it. Do you have any data you could share? I'd gladly look for it if anyone had a link or anything.
 
And most on here would laugh at you for using a knife in a capacity that needs toughness, i;e as a prybar. I would think the Aus8 is the most down the middle of all stainless. But since you brought up Striders and S30V, S30V looked great on paper, but its not a "flexible" as other steels, thus chips out pretty easy. It defiantly not a prying steel. It is a steel that can be great, but you need the heat treatment to be almost perfect. P.S. This isn't a knock, since I own some Striders, and my favorites are the tanto of all things(although I reprofile the hell out of them, I like my knive to CUT) Striders are thick blade stock, .160-.187-1/4 depending on the knife, thats the "secret" to they're strength, and they come with a 22/44 deg. grind. You could take a knife make it much thinner out of many tool steels, and have it be tougher, stronger and have better blade retention. But it would rust quicker. Heres a good example of toughness, many would say the Strider wins, but I disagree, since at the end one is still a knife, the other is not. S30V apears to have some flexability, but once it's threshhold is past, well see for yourself. http://www.badlandsforums.com/faq/ExtremaStrider.shtml As always, YMMV.
 
hardheart said:
Well, I've seen a couple broken BK7s, and there's really no reason to expect the S30V extreme version to be tougher. You can check out www.knifetests.com to see a 50100B model break.

The Green Beret is run fairly soft, which actually makes me wonder why they chose S30V to begin with.

The SERE is a 1/8" blade, not so much hard use when compared to the 1/4" or 5/16" knives, but I would consider that closer to what S30V is better suited to.

12C27 is considered a tough stainless steel, it is also quite cheap, as in used in plastic handled Moras under $10.

I think the Outcast in D2 was just a bad idea all around.

The VG10 laminate has 420J2 sides for toughness.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've seen the Becker test. It was weird to see such a fragile large carbon steel blade.

Would you or Knarfeng mind commenting on my earlier question about data sheet information. What to look for in them to make conclusions on steel's strength and toughness?
 
strength is listed on the info you posted, toughness would be a charpy or izod measure, AFAIK
 
PatriotDan said:
Agreed. My original answer for pure toughness was S-7. It hasn't got a super edge retention and I said that too. I like it though. Fits my use great and Justin's knives are knives you can depend on.

With stainless, like I said, I just can't find any data to convince me that 420/440a wins s30v in toughness. No tests that prove it. Do you have any data you could share? I'd gladly look for it if anyone had a link or anything.
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It's kind of hard, since S30V is only made by Crucible, so the only data we have is what they choose to publish. Makes it hard to do an apples to apples comparison. I do have indirect data, but from several sources. The first source is based on steels that knifemakers use for blades that require an emphasis on toughness. That's the stainless 6"+ blades I keep talking about. Those are usually made from 440A.

The other source is to look at the "tool steel comparagraph" (Lord, what a name) on the Crucible S30V data sheet.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS30Vv5.pdf?CFID=1352991&CFTOKEN=11742136

It shows that S30V has about the same level of toughness as D2 and 440C. (I know that their Charpy data shows that S30V is 2.5x tougher than 440C, but that is only one test. It does not tell the whole story. Crucible's chart says that for overall toughness, S30V is about the same as 440C.)

Then look at a steel suppliers comment about 440A vs. 440C here:
http://www.nationalspeciality.com/steelbar.php

It says:
"440A, B and C. Series of high carbon types. Same basic composition with varying carbon content. Higher carbon produces higher strength and hardness but lower toughness. " That means that 440A is tougher than 440C.

So if S30V has about the same level of toughness as 440C, and 440A is significantly tougher than 440C, that would imply that 440A is tougher than S30V.

Does that help?
 
I'm certainly interested to see how the N690Co from Extrema Ratio does--I actually have a couple, but as of yet they haven't had any adventures to go on and so have only done the most basic cutting chores. I do like their (to my mind) realistic take on the adding of cobalt making the alloy "somewhat tougher" than normal 440C, instead of claiming it to be the greatest new thing to come to knives since the iron age.
 
There are folders out there with pry-bar pommel....... no need to use the latest, greatest steel to pry.
 
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