Toy collection not needed for the bush

Chris,
I agree on both points. Sometimes I buy a peice of kit where I feel mine is weak & pass it on because it was no better than what I had.

With rifles I have spent hundreds for little gain in accuracy and durability... quality gear holds good resale value & I can always go back.
2Door
 
From a knife, an ax, a saw in the raw wilderness all the way to a computer. Man can still to this day live without a computer but not a cutting tool.

Paper, ax handles, computer disk package, food bags and/or boxes, tin cans, medical supplies, movies, clothing....all have been touched by a cutting tool.
 
raym,

Well said. If you need a caddy you should be playing golf.

On making things better, once you improve the man he will do alot with a little. There's no quick fix solution to improving the man behind the gun, knife, bow, whatever. As long as skill is something to be attained through hard work and practice there will be someone smart enough to sell a gadget solution that promises the same results. Mac
 
Yeah, you guys with your fancy new gadgets don't know anything! Go buy more knives and sit and look at them, don't go out in the woods and actually use them! You wouldn't know a figure 4 trap from a.....oh shoot sorry, gotta go get in line for an Apple iPhone...




















:D Just some levity
 
raym said:
I'm new here and some may take offense at my observation but it's not meant to offend.

I'm nearly 60 years old and I detect that the average member here is closer to half that or less.In the 70's,I lived for over three years in the Alaskan bush.The nearest neighbor was about 25 miles distant.I point this out to demonstrate that I don't speak from theory.

An enthusiast of whatever (knives,guns)is usually emotionally wrapped up in toy collecting,whether one is aware of it or not.As long as one is AWARE of that fact and therefore does not take it too seriously,everything is fine.However,I get the sense that many do take it quite seriously,hence my remarks.

When I lived in the bush,I kept things very simple and every experienced bushman I've known has done likewise.As far as edged tools are concerned,a couple of decent knives along with a couple of axes,splitting maul and saw was all I ever needed and I LIVED in raw wilderness.

I get the distinct sense that many are not happy unless they are on a shopping spree which inevitably leads to more repetition and complexity.To those who believe this to be neccesary,I suggest that falling back to basics will prove to be superior.

Regards,
raym
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i think you should post more.

you've made some fine points.:thumbup:
 
The iphone thing reminded me of this funny tee

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raym said:
I'm nearly 60 years old... ...In the 70's,I lived for over three years in the Alaskan bush. ...a couple of decent knives...
Regards,
raym
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Howdy Ray.

I'm around your age and used to spend a lot of time outside back then also :thumbup:
Tho' I stayed here in the lower 48 :)

Maybe you could give some more detail on the knives you mention as that's what we are here for. :D
 
Welcome to a great section of the forums, Ray. You make some valid points and I welcome your opinions. I would love to see pictures of some your tools. The folks here have varied interest from simple hiking to full blown being prepared for zombie attacks. (I kid you not). I am more of a canoe/fishing type, so I tend to pack way more stuff then needed when I do get a chance to visit the swamp. I try to practice my skills and also to try new things I have read or seen (Bear's show being the exception) which includes buying or making a new "toy". I also get to teach my son a few skills using the different toys. I believe technology will never replace knowledge, but combined may really impact an outcome one day.

I look forward to reading a story or two from you along with your opinions on mine and the other folks' post.

Jim
 
I too would love to get pics of what you use. Living down under the availability of knives plays a major role with my collection (if you could call it that) every knife I own is used. I don't have enough money to buy knives that won't be used, with the amount of shipping charges these days I could spend the postage and buy another knife.
 
Dr. Mudd said:
Raym, I had to smile when I read what you wrote here because I'll be 60 later this year, too, and sometimes I just have to shake my head when I read what some of these youngsters here post. I realize that these "children," as I so often think of them, have mostly grown up in cities with computers and cell phones, not in the small towns, deep woods, swamps, and farm lands of America using knives and other basic tools like so many of us old codgers did. I try really hard to be patient when I read some of the immature things posted here, but I have to keep in mind that these "kids" very often don't even have a male role model in their lives to ask the things they ask us about sometimes. Most men my age had a daddy to give them their first knife, to show them how to whittle without cutting themselves badly, to make them a slingshot, take them fishing, and teach them how to play mumblypeg out in the yard under a tree...
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Man, this is a huge point. MY son turned 4 today. I made him his first knife back at Easter. He goes foraging with me and knows the "ask mom or dad if it's safe to eat if you pick it" rules. He knows a black widow on sight, picks fruit off wild trees, eats rose hips off the brambles at the creek.... And he's *weird*. Even here in Davis, where dumpster diving is a community activity and there are "underground" maps of public foragables, he's strange.

For raym: I'm not quite that young, I did a bit of bush training under some pretty rough instructors at one point, and I'd be okay with a few knives and a decent axe. Happier with a saw and some raingear, but "can" and "want" are different. I've got a pile of knives, collected over the decades, and some of them sit pretty in a drawer or ditch bag, some are on my toolbelts or tool bags for work, and a few just go with me everywhere. But I surely don't lust after new toys.

Then again, I'm a beginning knifemaker and it's really interesting to handle knives when I'm trying to design them. (which hasn't got much to do with your original point about toys.)

Most of all, and this one we may have missed- I don't have toys for "survival". I have tools I use. There are very few things in any of my regular gear that don't get used often for my work and life. And what doesn't work out or isn't helping me along gets tossed.
 
I kept things very simple ....As far as edged tools are concerned,a couple of decent knives along with a couple of axes,splitting maul and saw was all I ever needed
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Ok.........what constitutes a "decent" knife? How large? How many? Carried how?

For some, any knife will do.........until they have to use it! For others, a knife failure can spell disaster.

I'm interested in what, specifically, you chose and what, specifically, you used them for.

Thanks ! :D
 
Well raym, I'm about 21 years youger than you. I grew up in farm country. A USMC (CAMILUS) knife, a $3(!) mora, a slew of cheap pocket knives (some lost, some stolen), a Schrade muskrat, and hatchet were I all needed. Cutting open hay bales, skinning critters, digging out slivers, gutting deer, stripping wire, trapline duties....You name it.

Now I have a drawer full of blades. What do I grab for hunting? An SAK Farmer, USMC Ka-Bar, Schrade muskrat.

Camping? SAK Fieldmaster and Ka-Bar.

Trapping? #2 Mora (lost about 5), a muskrat and a Collins hatchet.

EDC? SAK Fieldmaster...sometimes with a Case CV stockman.

Somethings go full circle....I'd be happy with a Ka-Bar and farmer.
 
I AM 30 and I like knives and buy different knives to try out. But, I'm always on the road to simplify my tools. Honestly, I'm trying to figure out a way to lose my leatherman and it's just going to come down to losing it.:D I'm a minimalist by nature so I can't stand having crap hanging from every part of my being so I'm with you there.
But, as Nessmuk said, that your knife should be as thin as possible and that all the bowie knives were "murderous" looking...okay. Yeah, 120 years ago he was spot on with having a super thin knife and using an axe for chopping but with the advances in technology of today with steel and heat treating techniques(did they even have frozen CO2 back then?) you can't really say that some of the tools we have today are toys. Sure, they probably aren't necessary in the sense they weren't 40 years ago but then again the tools you used 40 years ago was more than the axe and butcher knife they used 100 years ago.
I'm not trying to be defensive just explaining myself and I think if you knew what I carried into the woods you probably wouldn't scoff.
 
A few responses have revealed a strong defensive posture about knife collecting which furthur indicates a lack of comprehension regarding my overall point.I am not,nor was not criticizing anyone for collecting anything.I have a minor collection myself.

One or two asked for pictures from me.I have a computer (obviously)but nothing else nor do I have the knowledge of how to use it.Since I left Alaska approximately 30 years ago,much that I used is no longer with me.

It's my impression that some of you are ex military where you were taught to be uncomfortable for brief spells.I was actually quite comfortable while living in the bush and this makes it all a bit of an apples vs oranges comparison.I never felt as though I was on a SURVIVAL EXPEDITION nor did I think that I was ROUGHING IT.

Most seem to regard the woods as a place to "endure and then escape from".I do not.
 
Good topic Raym, always worth debating. My .02 is that something changed in me once I spent longer than 20 days in the wilderness. I started to shed lots of ideas; about myself in general, but about what I needed as compared to what I thought I needed. Up till then I'd only done 1-2 week trips, but last year I spent almost a month in the central Australian desert.

I'm much more confident now about survival in the bush and as you say; I look around and see opportunity rather than threat. I also carry way, way less and have lost my big knife fixation. As much as I like my RAT7 I just don't need to carry it any more (could be a different story in the tropics of course).

I'm planning an across Australia bike tour next year and compared to the people I've read about on the web (everyone who has done this has posted a detailed web log about it - it seems), I'll be carrying abouy 8kg less. I know what I need and I'm confident in the gear I have.

I still like good gear though - sometimes it's expensive and only sourced from snooty climbing/outdoors shops, sometimes it's rediculously cheap and available from your local chain hardware store.
 
Ive got a few knives....but I consider them all research projects in my quest to find me an ideal set of tools...(I'm gettin close I think) I think the most expensive knife I hae is my leatherman wave 89 smackers NIB followed by the f1 the most inexpensive one in my collection is an oppinel #7 about 7 bucks if i Remember correctly...at this point I've got it down to my bush use trio. I use a small machete as a chopper and a vic sak (w/saw) as a multi tool I currently use the f1 as my do all it cost almosttwice as much as the other 2 together I think I spent about 75 dollars on it (more than I'd usually spend) but it's well worth it. the main thing is be happy if you enjoy bringing a new blade with you every time than go for it....if you enjoy using the same trust mora for 30 years that's cool too if your getting out to enjoy the bush...you in on a little secret that alot of folks have missed so you end up ahead of the game regardless of whats on your belt..keep it simple....copmplicate the fudge out of it...get out and play in the woods.....and you got the thumbs up from me.
 
Most seem to regard the woods as a place to "endure and then escape from"...

Keep in mind that alot of the discussion here centers around wilderness survival and not wilderness living and bushcraft skills. When something goes radically wrong it often calls for skills and preparation that go beyond the scope of camping or long term wilderness living. The two skill sets are complimentary.

Its not so much that the woods is a place to endure and escape from as it is a broken knee in the woods is a thing to endure and escape from. Mac
 
Great thread raym. I get your point, and appreciate your angle.

Everyone has their own reasons for doing whatever they do, be it collecting/accumulating edged tools, attending wilderness skills classes, or flat out existing in the bush. Whether we choose to live off the land where few men have tread, or we choose to carve our own tent stakes at the county park 10 minutes away from our house, realize that we are all drawn here by a common interest in edged tools and all that they encompass.
 
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