Toy collection not needed for the bush

raym said:
Most seem to regard the woods as a place to "endure and then escape from".I do not.
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Other than inflating your ego, I really fail to see the point of this thread. You offer absolutely nothing in the way of useful information or otherwise sharing of your skills. Ever heard the phrase "work smarter, not harder?" Or was that concept lost while you were skinning animals with your teeth, splitting logs with your forehead, and starting fires with treebark and a lock of hair?

Could I survive, even thrive, being thrown into the wilderness with nothing but a scalpel? Maybe. But why should I? I'm an able bodied person who knows how use technological improvements to my advantage. Thus, I will take whatever tools I think will make my life easier while on the trail. I do not, however, believe that tools are a substitute for training. Most people will never receive such training though.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a person carrying a kit containing what they consider to be essentials for survival, for comfort, and for peace of mind. And for you to discourage that is irresponsible. I can't tell you how many times I've been called out on SAR at 4am, only to find out that had the victim been carrying the bare essentials (blade, fire starting equip, water, protection from the elements), they could have easily signaled for help, stayed hydrated, avoided hypothermia, and most importantly, made it back to their destination.


EDITED TO ADD: I should probably clarify why I am so adamant about not discouraging people to carry whatever gear they deem necessary. I am a member of 5 local and national search and rescue teams, and have responded to over 100 incidents of lost, missing, injured, dead, and generally unprepared people. It seems that you are suggesting that others are not 'true woodsman' if they go into the wilderness with anything more than a few cutting tools. I couldn't disagree more. In fact, it worries me that some will actually take your advice and drop a few items, just because some guy on the internet said they were basically 'cheating,' so to speak.

If I can save one life by suggesting that someone carry a few extra 'luxury' items, then fine...I'll gladly be the bad guy that comes in here and tells you your 'naked into the wilderness' approach is not only bad advice, but potentially fatal. It's not 1970, and I don't think anyone here is going to live in the woods for three years (even though it sounds like fun).
 
lets all get along...Raym welcome...we're all anxious to hear more about your experiences and choices of tools....no need for anyone to get sensitive....if you got a 300 dollar busse that's awesome you can skin a caribou and batto a log...if you ve' got an old hickory for 10 dollars and use an axe that's cool too. the main thing is that we're all here to learn from eachother...raym maybe some folks will learn to simplify because of this thread...and maybe you might learn a thing or 2 from them...I've learned a bunch since i've been hear.. keep coming and keep posting.
 
A lot of you "old timers" are younger than my old man who is 65 and way younger than my gramps who is 94.
I learned from my old man to "let the tool do the work" and from gramps I got "cut it twice and it's still too short".
My gramps used to run a lumbermill and where I grew up in Michigan we always got to spend our weekends doing insane amounts of yardwork. Cutting trees, etc.
Personally I like to have one of the best of everything. One good axe, one good chopper, etc. It also takes some trial and error to get a blade that fits you perfectly, and you can't tell until you've used it. Once you find that tool it is always the first one you grab and the one that becomes your best friend.

I also like to cook so that requires a lot of knives, although a japanese cleaver can do anything.

I also like to collect knives. Almost everyone collects something. I'm not as big a collector as my brother who has over 300 blades.

There is an unstoppable need for materialism is our society, and companies will fuel these desires. Be it a new car or a knife. When I buy new outdoor gear I'm not buying the illusion or the image, I am buying utility. A lot of people are happy driving an SUV that makes them look "outdoorsy" I drive a truck I beat the piss out of and could care less about how it looks. The adage I use for my gear is "if it's not used it's useless" thus I strive for simplicity and functionality over glitz. Antoine de Saint-Exupéry is reputed to have said: "Perfection [in design] is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

Those of us half your age probably have parents your age. The generation you should worry about are the ones half my age, now that is a scary thought!
 
Like the old saying, Eat to live, don't live to eat. Thats what I'm trying to do right now, but amassing is just so much fun. Great philosophy though, that super fixed blade with the best tool steel heat treat rockwelled at whatever the magic number is won't save you if you don't know what to do with it.

Whew ;)
 
Except for one obvious exception,most have been polite.

Never have I suggested to anyone that they go into the boonies with nothing but their fingernails.Some people need to develope some reading comprehension skill.

I fail to see where this thread is a sign of an inflated ego.I have walked a walk that most have not and therefore,I've tried to inject an idea (philosophy)that may prove helpful to some.

Many of you have "gotten the point"that I was attempting to share.Several did not.

Several have been very courteous and I thank them for it.To those of you who find my opinion to be distasteful,just look elesewhere.No one is forcing you to read my thread.

Very few(in this era of history)have actually lived in wilderness and this makes me unusual.That is a fact that has nothing to do with arrogance.
 
45JHP said:
Congrats. Other than inflating your ego, I really fail to see the point of this thread. You offer absolutely nothing in the way of useful information or otherwise sharing of your skills.
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While I think the rest of this post is a bit more abrasive than needed, it does make a point......

I asked for specifics regarding knives used, how long they were, how they were carried and got nothing.

I can learn from anyone.............anyone that's willing to share their insight, that is.

But it's difficult to learn much when all they say is: "you're doing it wrong, but I'm not going to tell you a better way."

.
 
David,

I carried a sheath knife that was very unremarkable.I carried it on my hip.It had a 5 inch blade with a slight drop point.There was nothing special about it and any decent knife would do just as well.Another similar knife was kept among my gear to act as backup in case of loss or damage.

I don't recall saying that you or anyone was doing something wrong.If what you do works,then don't change a thing.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcinek
Your average caveman did not have "a couple of decent knives along with a couple of decent axes, a splitting maul and a saw"...and he lived in raw wilderness quite successfully.


magneto said:
OK then, what did he have?
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"Caveman" covers a lot of historic ground-- let's say 30,000 years. "Stone age" technology was really plant fiber, leather, fur and hair, sinew, bone, shells, quills, wood, and stone-- the stone artifacts are all that are left. They used all that nature had to offer, and cleverly too. Stone choppers went back far longer into prehistory.

So what did they have then? Baskets, gourds, fiber, fur, and leather clothing, stone axes, choppers, knapped blades, spears, arrows, bone and shell blades and tools, wooden implements, dugout and leather boats too. A few thousand years later and you get fired ceramics and metals-- the race was on.

Now, even our cabin dweller in Alaska had far more than a couple knives, axes and saws. I'll bet he had a couple firearms, a kitchen kit with pots, pans, utensils and dishes, water storage, hand tools, a woodstove or fireplace, slepping gear, and the cabin itself-- all tools to live by. When I go hiking, I just have condensed and simplified versions of the stuff I use at home-- a roof over my head, a warm soft place to sleep, water storage and purification, a kichen kit, my clothing, hygeine kit, along with a few tools to make repairs, prepare my food, and navigate with.

Simple is good-- I have no problem agreeing with that. There is a lot of materialism here and we do definately have our toys. It's no different than any other hobby or collecting and there's no doubt there is some emotional attachment to tools and ways of doing things. It's a free country and you can take or leave what you want. I'm into ulralight gear and much of what people put together here is too heavy for my wants, but there are some real pearls that pop up now and then and I'm grateful to see how others do things. If someone wants to haul ten pounds of iron up a mountain, it's probably good exercise-- more power to 'em :D As hikers say about equipment, "hike your own hike."
 
I just noticed something that I had missed earlier.......I've been accused of advising people to go into the bush with 'NOTHING' but a few edged tools.Where did that come from?????.....My point was about edged tools only......At absolutely no point did I suggest that one should take nothing else.I had a lot of things when I stayed in the bush.The subject was regarding EDGED TOOLS and was not meant to be a "gear list".The whole point regarded leaning towards basics rather than uneccesary additions was in referrence to EDGED TOOLS.

I can't imagine why this would stir up such hostility.This is ridiculous.Do some people actually misunderstand "on purpose"????....and if so,why?????attitude,perhaps.
 
raym said:
David,

I carried a sheath knife that was very unremarkable.I carried it on my hip.It had a 5 inch blade with a slight drop point.There was nothing special about it and any decent knife would do just as well.Another similar knife was kept among my gear to act as backup in case of loss or damage..
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Thank you !

That IS helpful !

What was the toughest task you used that knife for?

.
 
David,

I used a knife for all the usual things one does with a knife.Dressing game,fuzz sticks,etc,etc.I would reach for it for one thing or another several times per day.....If what you're really asking is "did I use it to cut metal" or "did I use it as a crow bar",the answer is no.......For heavy duty use,I turned to the axe,maul or saw.

I have been around my share of woodsman and have observed that their view about sticking to the basics are quite similar to mine.
 
The unusual abrasiveness can be explained by a horrible hangover, and the negative tone raym displayed in certain parts of this thread. I'm going to edit out some of the haste. Anyway, that was my point exactly. raym, not only did you come in here and basically tell us that we're doing it all wrong...you failed to provide any insight whatsoever as to what you would do differently. People responded with their opinions, as well as questions, and you came back with insults.

You're certainly not the only one who has been in the wild for extended periods of time. Hiking the AT after high school graduation, and again after college, being a student of Simon and Brown, and currently being a wilderness first responder, has given me a great insight into many different aspects of wilderness survival and living comfortably out there. Yeah, it's not three years, but it's more than 99% of the population.

Now, had you come in here and said something along the lines of "Not that your ways are wrong, but this is how I would do it...," you may have earned a more positive response. Instead, you have a title of "Toy collection not needed for the bush," and respond to comments by questioning the reading comprehension of others.

In your first post, you state: "As far as edged tools are concerned,a couple of decent knives along with a couple of axes,splitting maul and saw was all I ever needed and I LIVED in raw wilderness." Well, what here in this forum gave you any idea that we think differently? Most people I see here carry a fixed blade, a folder, and an axe of some sort for a trip into the wild. In fact, a secondary thread was based on that. What EXACTLY would you do differently?

Furthermore, I did not "misunderstand on purpose," your blanket statements such as "enthusiast of whatever," "toy collector," and "shopping spree" led me to believe that you were against anything other than a bare bones approach to wilderness survival and living. If that is not the case, disregard.

I have a few questions for you, and I truly am interested in your responses. What, at the age of 30, were you doing living alone in the woods of Alaska? Did you build your own shelter out there, and if so...what was it? Were you active in gardening? Hunting? Fishing? And finally, what are you up to now, 30 years later?
 
raym said:
David,
.....If what you're really asking is "did I use it to cut metal" or "did I use it as a crow bar",the answer is no.......For heavy duty use,I turned to the axe,maul or saw.
.
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No, I was really asking: what was the toughest task you used that knife for?

From your answer, I see that you "turned to the axe, maul, or saw" which implies that you were near your vehicle or cabin whenever you needed to use them. Obviously, that opens up all sorts of options, since you didn't have to carry them on your person.........or did you ?

Many folks seek out the tool(s) that allow them to do "the most with the least" meaning that one tool will do the work of 2 or 3. Keeping an array of tools in the shed or trunk is great, when you can do it. Not so great if you have to rely solely on what you're able to carry with you.

.
 
raym said:
I just noticed something that I had missed earlier.......I've been accused of advising people to go into the bush with 'NOTHING' but a few edged tools.Where did that come from?????.....My point was about edged tools only......At absolutely no point did I suggest that one should take nothing else.I had a lot of things when I stayed in the bush.The subject was regarding EDGED TOOLS and was not meant to be a "gear list".The whole point regarded leaning towards basics rather than uneccesary additions was in referrence to EDGED TOOLS.

I can't imagine why this would stir up such hostility.This is ridiculous.Do some people actually misunderstand "on purpose"????....and if so,why?????attitude,perhaps.
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Naw, just the usual jumping to conclusions-- and things come across different in print than they do in person. I don't read on-line discussions as hostile until people start questioning my family tree and such :)
 
45,

I do not recall insulting anyone.I do recall you insulting me.My "reading comprehension" comment was used when I was (in my opinion)misunderstood so profoundly and was issued in reaction.

I lived in the bush because I wanted to...period.

Yes,I hunted,fished and to go into more detail would probably cause a book to be neccesary which is not likely.To answer another question,yes I built a log cabin as well as a number of overnight shelters.

You asked what I'm doing these days....I have health problems but I still fantasize about returning to the bush...time will tell on that one.
 
DaleW i like how well you put it when you said that when you go backpacking you condense your home to fit into your pack. What i mean is when you said about the shelter food and kitchen.

Sasha
 
David,

I was quite often a day or two hike from my cabin but I ALWAYS carried an axe.The maul and saw was kept at the cabin.I believe that you're looking at this from a backpackers perspective.It's true that I would travel light but not at the expense of the axe.
 
raym said:
An enthusiast of whatever (knives,guns)is usually emotionally wrapped up in toy collecting,whether one is aware of it or not.As long as one is AWARE of that fact and therefore does not take it too seriously,everything is fine.However,I get the sense that many do take it quite seriously,hence my remarks.


Regards,
raym
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Since this forum is about knives you are going to find a lot of collectors as well as varied opinions. It is important to understand that having a collection does not infer that the person doesn't know how to use their tools. Obviously not everyone on this forum is just a collector of knives, or I would guarantee many more negative comments. There are those that use their knives heavily in the outdoors as well as those that just want to collect Busse BM's. To each his own.

Yes some people might take collecting too seriously, and an arsenal is not required to survive in the bush. But why get people riled up? If someones passion is collecting blades no one has the right to impose their opinions on them. I agree that what is needed in the bush is ingenuity, not toys. But making a generalization that anyone who loves and collects knives is wrong is what I believe people have a problem with.
 
I think the "attitude" reaction to your post is that it was taken as looking down upon anyone with more than a few knives basically as having lots of "toys" and not the knowledge to use them. Also the idea that all of us are young pups that can't possibly know what we're doing in the woods.

Also, it was your very first post. How about introducing yourself? Let us know something about yourself and your experiences. Just a thought.
 
So , I take it Raym does not shop at TAD gear much ?

Come on Raym you know you want a Life Capsule and some glowing skull thumbstuds for your Strider.
smf-gg-ti.jpg




Hows about a Cookie Cutter bezel for your Surefire ?

Titanium 'dogtags' with sharpened edge ?

Realtree balaclava ?

Glow in the dark paracord ?


No... ?



By the way Tknife , thanks for making the point that I could not quite think of how to say. :)
 
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