If people need rules that are written to enforce what a majority of folks would consider good form and common sense, we can throw something together. Personally, I don't think we don't need rules for such things, just more people actually thinking and communicating to one another. That alone would resolve most of the issues that are brought here to begin with. People that play on the exchange are left to use their best judgement, common sense, and are treated like adults until they prove the former virtues are nonessential to their interactions.
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trade gone bad
- Thread starter jessecoffman
- Start date
If people need rules that are written to enforce what a majority of folks would consider good form and common sense, we can throw something together. Personally, I don't think we don't need rules for such things, just more people actually thinking and communicating to one another. That alone would resolve most of the issues that are brought here to begin with. People that play on the exchange are left to use their best judgement, common sense, and are treated like adults until they prove the former virtues are nonessential to their interactions.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2013
- Messages
- 22
He sent me an email saying it looked like someone took a grinder to the tip.(in reality it was just a very small chip that WAS mentioned in the description). And also said that the blade was rubbing the liner, and in the description I stated that it had a little side to side play that could probably be eliminated by tightening the pivot. What I think happened is the following.
I shipped first so he had the oppertunity to look at the blades side by side.
He decided he didn't want mine anymore. Buyers remorse.
he found the one thing that wasn't mentioned in the description and used it as an excuse to end the trade.
here is my original description
I have a left handed 2000 Emerson commander. It has light wear but no big scratches. Pocket clip is worn around the edges. Blade to the right of the logo has a wear mark from the liner lock rubbing against it, other than that the blade has no big marks. About a half inch from the tip the edge has a very very very small chip that is hardly noticeable if you are not looking for it. It is partially serrated, the serrations are not messed up at all. The edge is polished but you can see marks from lower grits through the polish. I just had it apart and cleaned/ oiled it. I cant detect any up/down blade play, it has very little side to side right now and would probably have none if the pivot were tightened a little bit
And here is his email when he received the knife
Good morning, I just opened the package you sent. This knife is beat to hell! It rubs the liner, up and down play, AND side to side! It lpoks like someone took a grinder to the tip. There is NO WAY I am giving you the Pro Tech for this! I will be sending it back. I am glad I had to go out of the state and did not ship mine yet.
I shipped first so he had the oppertunity to look at the blades side by side.
He decided he didn't want mine anymore. Buyers remorse.
he found the one thing that wasn't mentioned in the description and used it as an excuse to end the trade.
here is my original description
I have a left handed 2000 Emerson commander. It has light wear but no big scratches. Pocket clip is worn around the edges. Blade to the right of the logo has a wear mark from the liner lock rubbing against it, other than that the blade has no big marks. About a half inch from the tip the edge has a very very very small chip that is hardly noticeable if you are not looking for it. It is partially serrated, the serrations are not messed up at all. The edge is polished but you can see marks from lower grits through the polish. I just had it apart and cleaned/ oiled it. I cant detect any up/down blade play, it has very little side to side right now and would probably have none if the pivot were tightened a little bit
And here is his email when he received the knife
Good morning, I just opened the package you sent. This knife is beat to hell! It rubs the liner, up and down play, AND side to side! It lpoks like someone took a grinder to the tip. There is NO WAY I am giving you the Pro Tech for this! I will be sending it back. I am glad I had to go out of the state and did not ship mine yet.
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http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1114807-emerson-commander-2000-lefty
if that is the knife concerned I think the description/pictures are well within reason. It would be nice to hear the other member's version/issue. As has been said if it was really a case of "this is not my thing" then there is some really poor form involved. If there is an undisclosed issue then that is another story, but again it is clear from that the other party knew this this was a used knife. As others have said, if it is a case of "traders remorse" then you should be refunded your shipping. should we have a rule about that, I hate rules
things like this should be able to be taken care of by adults of character, sadly not all are so equipped.
if that is the knife concerned I think the description/pictures are well within reason. It would be nice to hear the other member's version/issue. As has been said if it was really a case of "this is not my thing" then there is some really poor form involved. If there is an undisclosed issue then that is another story, but again it is clear from that the other party knew this this was a used knife. As others have said, if it is a case of "traders remorse" then you should be refunded your shipping. should we have a rule about that, I hate rules
things like this should be able to be taken care of by adults of character, sadly not all are so equipped.
This sounds mostly like differing opinions/differing perceptions about the condition of the knife. Sometimes a small scratch to one person is a large gouge to another. I looked at the original trade post and think the OP did a pretty decent job of describing the knife. If one looks closely, one can tell that the knife has been handled/used quite a bit. I would expect to receive a well worn user if I bought or traded for this knife.
Judging by the other trader's response, posted by the OP above, he (the other trader), was expecting or maybe hoping for something in better condition. The other trader's statement - this knife is beat to hell - sounds as if the knife is not at all what he was expecting. It could also be a way to mask buyer's remorse because he had hoped for a knife in better condition than the pictures indicated - who knows. Hopefully the other trader has actually sent the knife back and all concerned will, at least, be satisfied. Though as the original OP, I would be disappointed that I had spent money to ship the knife, as long as the other trader paid to ship it back in like manner and in good time, I could live with it. I do think that the other trader went too far in his rather offensive response. There was no reason to be uncivil - as I said earlier, this was most likely a matter if differing opinions and or perceptions. What keeps me coming back to Blade Forums (except for the Political sub-forum, that can be plain frightening to browse (at least to me) at times
), is that most members here can take a deep breath and respond in a reasonable manner when opinions differ. I apologize for the verbal dysentery. Mike
Judging by the other trader's response, posted by the OP above, he (the other trader), was expecting or maybe hoping for something in better condition. The other trader's statement - this knife is beat to hell - sounds as if the knife is not at all what he was expecting. It could also be a way to mask buyer's remorse because he had hoped for a knife in better condition than the pictures indicated - who knows. Hopefully the other trader has actually sent the knife back and all concerned will, at least, be satisfied. Though as the original OP, I would be disappointed that I had spent money to ship the knife, as long as the other trader paid to ship it back in like manner and in good time, I could live with it. I do think that the other trader went too far in his rather offensive response. There was no reason to be uncivil - as I said earlier, this was most likely a matter if differing opinions and or perceptions. What keeps me coming back to Blade Forums (except for the Political sub-forum, that can be plain frightening to browse (at least to me) at times
), is that most members here can take a deep breath and respond in a reasonable manner when opinions differ. I apologize for the verbal dysentery. Mike
So my theory is that it doesn't matter why one half of the trade isn't satisfied. They might not like the condition, they might have buyers remorse, they may have gotten up on the wrong side of bed. What does it matter? If you had met them in person for a trade and they took a look at your knife and said "nevermind" would they have had to justify it? No, I doubt it. They would have just put their knife back in their pocket and walked away. In this case this guy could have handled things with a little more tact, but since I assume he is paying return shipping you are out the cost of shipping to him, probably less than 10 dollars and that's about it. Stuff happens.
Incidentally, personally I think that it's easier just to sell your knife and then buy the knife you want. Less chance of getting hosed that way or dealing with the vagaries of trading.
Incidentally, personally I think that it's easier just to sell your knife and then buy the knife you want. Less chance of getting hosed that way or dealing with the vagaries of trading.
If the blade has vertical play when you said it does not, that is reason enough to reverse the trade.
Think what would have happened if you both shipped at the same time. He would have received the Emerson and asked to reverse the trade anyway because vertical play in a liner lock is a potentially major issue that should have been disclosed. You would both then be out the shipping costs times two. As it stands now you're both out the same amount of money and time. To be fair he should not sell or trade his protech until you receive your knife back.
His message may have been rude, but I don't think his actions were unreasonable.
Think what would have happened if you both shipped at the same time. He would have received the Emerson and asked to reverse the trade anyway because vertical play in a liner lock is a potentially major issue that should have been disclosed. You would both then be out the shipping costs times two. As it stands now you're both out the same amount of money and time. To be fair he should not sell or trade his protech until you receive your knife back.
His message may have been rude, but I don't think his actions were unreasonable.
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Part of the courtesy of trading is that both parties are satisfied in the end. I think it is just friendly to allow trade backs if both parties are unsatisfied.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
Exactly. It's that attitude that gives people confidence in participating in trades, when they see that most of us do feel that way.
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- May 3, 2011
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- 13,975
I agree with this.
We don't know if the vertical play is really there. I have a few knives that have no play unless you put a retarded amount of force into it. The trader could plainly be over forcing the liner, which many people do. It is not the other person's fault when I force a lock past what would happen outside of a spine whack, that is all on me.
The condition was accurately described, photos were given proving the condition, and the other guy either ignored both andexpected the normal "user" (which has a few barely noticeable scratches), or he has no tact and cold feet. Either way, the OP did everything right and he still got the short end. I promise, most traders aren't like this.
The condition was accurately described, photos were given proving the condition, and the other guy either ignored both andexpected the normal "user" (which has a few barely noticeable scratches), or he has no tact and cold feet. Either way, the OP did everything right and he still got the short end. I promise, most traders aren't like this.
Always, Always spell out and agree to specific terms before striking a deal. If the other guy doesn't like it then move on, there will be other trade opportunities.
No matter what the reason, the guy was well within his rights to cancel the trade, and even though he should pay your shipping fees, if it wasn't agreed to in the first place then it is just a moral obligation which is pretty worthless when dealing with total strangers.
On the other hand, if the guy does not reimburse your shipping cost, I also think you would be well within your rights to name him in this thread so people will be aware of him.
No matter what the reason, the guy was well within his rights to cancel the trade, and even though he should pay your shipping fees, if it wasn't agreed to in the first place then it is just a moral obligation which is pretty worthless when dealing with total strangers.
On the other hand, if the guy does not reimburse your shipping cost, I also think you would be well within your rights to name him in this thread so people will be aware of him.