Trade Rule Clarification Requested, Please

[Lone_Wolfe]

Hello, I'd like clarification on the rules of trading here, please from a Mod or with a link. I looked and apparently am looking in the wrong places. Here's the deal;

I was contacted and communicated via PM's on here about a possible trade, and I agreed. We made the trade, the other party getting my end before I did, even though we shipped the same day. The other party was happy, even sold one of the knives I sent before I got my end. I'm not happy with the knife I recieved, although the other party in no way did anything wrong. He took good pics, etc. I'm just underwhelmed, and not satisfied. I asked to reverse the trade and was refused. Am I wrong to expect this trade to be reversible?

Thanks all.

 

[Striderco]

Im pretty sure both parties have to be satisfied!? I still havent gotten my xmas present Lone Wolfe! Thought I was getting one of those blades in your avatar?!

 

[Windex_]

As far as I am concerned no trade is complete until both parties are happy. The person whom you traded with really F^#ked up in my opinion in selling your knife before you even got yours, what would he have done had you not received anything. Whoever you traded with should have their user name post here.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

............. Whoever you traded with should have their user name post here.

At this point, I'm not going to even hint who it is, because I think it was mistake, not malice. That, and the person contacted me before I got this post up, the PM was waiting for me when I submitted. No way he could have seen it first.

 

[brandon]

That's bad form on his part. You should post his name. You think it's a mistake he refuses to return your property?

 

[338375]

I don't remember if it is a written rule or not, but it has been said by mods in the past that, A deal isn't done, until both parties are happy.

It sounds like he wasn't trying to hide anything, which is good. But selling a knife he got in trade, before he knew if you were happy or not, is not cool IMO...

If he didn't misrepresent the knife, but you just don't like it, I still think that is good enough reason to be able to expect the trade to be reversed.

 

[rycen]

I certainly won't disagree with anything that was said above but one interesting thing about the situation is that you knew he had your knife up for sale before you had received your end of the trade. I did speak to him about the fact that he sold the knife before you said you're satisfied but he was so sure that it was as described that he went ahead and sold your knife. While you're both fairly new you have 50 positive deals between the two of you I'm sure this will get worked out amicably.

For anyone else reading this thread you should always wait till the other person has their end of the deal and make sure they're satisfied before you do anything like trade or sell their knife away.

 

[braillediver]

always wait till the other person has their end of the deal and make sure they're satisfied before you do anything like trade or sell their knife away.

Or spend the Money.

After I ship an item I let the Buyer know and close by saying- "Please let me know when the package arrives safely and that it meets your expectations".

I wait upon that response to wrap up the transaction.

 

[RevDevil]

A deal isn't complete until both parties are satisfied.

 

[FLymon]

Selling one of the knives received in a trade before both parties received their ends was wrong, period.

A deal isn't complete until both parties are satisfied.

I see this all the time and wholeheartedly agree in a trade that this should be a given (for several reasons). But I am not clear on a few things.

How long does one have to decide he/she is not satisfied? (if not expressly defined stated in the agreement beforehand)

Does this apply to sales, or just trades?

What if I sell a knife outright and decide a few days later I wish I hadn't. That I am not "satisfied" with the deal (sellers remorse let's call it). Should I expect the buyer to return it to me for a refund?


How about we make a deal and stick to it?
If you get what you bought/traded for, there is nothing inconsistent with the description given in the negotiations, and "liking" it was not a express condition of the sale/trade, we just deal with it and not go back on an otherwise fair trade?
Works for me anyway.

 

[LEGION 12]

If its something like a watch thats hard to judge condition from the pics i will ask for a trade back clause or i wont do it. A real problem is not leaving feedback i cant even count how many trades i have made that I never even hear a word back from the person I traded with . It should be mandatory to leave some kind of feedback so you know when the deal is done . Otherwise how are you supposed to know if there happy or not .

 

[Karda]

Selling one of the knives received in a trade before both parties received their ends was wrong, period.



I see this all the time and wholeheartedly agree in a trade that this should be a given (for several reasons). But I am not clear on a few things.

How long does one have to decide he/she is not satisfied? (if not expressly defined stated in the agreement beforehand)

Does this apply to sales, or just trades?

What if I sell a knife outright and decide a few days later I wish I hadn't. That I am not "satisfied" with the deal (sellers remorse let's call it). Should I expect the buyer to return it to me for a refund?


How about we make a deal and stick to it?
If you get what you bought/traded for, there is nothing inconsistent with the description given in the negotiations, and "liking" it was not a express condition of the sale/trade, we just deal with it and not go back on an otherwise fair trade?
Works for me anyway.

24 hrs from time of reciept should be enough for anyone to decide that the deal is done or not.

With that being said, unless the condition of the knife is not as described or pictured , a deal is a deal.
There really is no clause for "liking" the item or not. A trader should know what he/she is trading for before the deal is done.

But also, selling a trade item, before one is sure a deal is done, is poor form.

Both parties need to agree to terms before the deal is consumated.

 

[Blues]

Personally, I wouldn't consider any trade or sale complete until each party had informed the other that the item received was acceptable. This is supposed to be a community of like minded enthusiasts, not a cutthroat competition to see who can get the better of whom.

On the other hand, if one party fails to reply (via email, PM, telephone) within a reasonable period after documented receipt then that would be tacit acceptance in my book and the other party couldn't be faulted for moving on at that juncture.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

That's bad form on his part. You should post his name. You think it's a mistake he refuses to return your property?

He made a mistake listing my knife, and he learned. He's made up for it now, and we both learned a bit about trading. In spite of my feedback, it was only my third trade deal. All the rest have either been buying (mostly) or a few straight sales.

So here's how it all worked out; As I was writing the OP of this thread, my trade partner was writing me a PM retracting his reluctance to reverse the deal. We tossed out a couple of options to get around the problem of the one knife no longer being available. Then today, I was gone all day because of medical issues, and he offered me a choice of a couple different solutions, either of which was acceptable to me. In the end we opted for the one that let him keep the other knife he got. He made very good on his end, and I ship the knife out tomorrow. This is someone I wouldn't hesitate to trade with again.

 

[Maprik]

With that being said, unless the condition of the knife is not as described or pictured , a deal is a deal.
There really is no clause for "liking" the item or not. A trader should know what he/she is trading for before the deal is done.

I think that the "unwritten rule" should probably be written somewhere, just for clarification's sake. You just can't assume that everyone knows the unwritten rule, especially when it comes down to a trade where everything is on the up and up but one person just changes their mind after the fact. One person ends up disappointed and out the cost of shipping having done nothing wrong... I do agree that selling part of the trade before the other person has a chance to at least express satisfaction or question the accuracy of the description is poor form but as pointed out previously he thought he was in the clear because he was 100% honest and upfront about the knife.

In the end, sometimes just acting as friends is the best way to handle it...

 

[SavageSmurf]

A deal isn't complete until both parties are satisfied.

I'm not trying to make waves, and nearly always agree with the opinions of our moderators, but if the knife was as described, and the recipient simply changed his mind afterward, then I think it's pretty silly for some one to have to lose the money that they spent on shipping. If the guy knew what he was getting beforehand and then just decided "eh, I don't want to keep this knife," then he has the option to resell it at his discretion. But we're all adults here; it's not beyond reason to expect some one to stand by the agreement they made. I think that's why the "A deal isn't complete until both parties are satisfied" rule isn't actually in writing in the rules section. I know that most people use it as a general rule of etiquette, but personally, unless it's written in the rules section of this site, I wouldn't offer refund if the buyer got exactly what he asked for, but simply changed his mind. Unless it is added to the rules... I wouldn't violate regulation. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=751&a=98 Last I checked the "both parties must be satisfied" is not among them, and I feel it's for good reason.

Edit: Revdevil and Rycen, you've BOTH offered me assistance+advice in the past, and though I disagree, my intentions are not to offend either of you.

 

[BladeChick777]

If you agree to a trade, the trade is not done until both parties receive the knife(knives) agreed upon. If the condition is not as described then you can request to reverse the trade.
He should not have sold your knife before you received what you were promised.
However, if you choose to trade for a knife and you receive it in the condition as described but just decide you don't like the knife nor do you want it, you cannot(or shouldn't) undo the trade because it's the knife you agreed to trade for and it's as described.
At that point, you can decide to sell the knife or trade it off, but it's unfair to the other person to undo a trade just because you decide "Oh now that I have it, I don't want it". You agreed to trade for it, it's as described, but you don't want it, well that's your deal. You can trade it or sell it, but it's what you agreed to, so it's unfair to the other person just because you regret trading what you did for what you traded for, to try and undo it.

A trade isn't done until both parties have received their knives as described and are happy with the condition.
However, it's not fair to the other party to have to reverse a trade just because the other person has traders remorse.

 

[SavageSmurf]

If its something like a watch thats hard to judge condition from the pics i will ask for a trade back clause or i wont do it. A real problem is not leaving feedback i cant even count how many trades i have made that I never even hear a word back from the person I traded with . It should be mandatory to leave some kind of feedback so you know when the deal is done . Otherwise how are you supposed to know if there happy or not .

I had two deals on this forum that I didnt feel were handled properly by the other end. I didn't ask to reverse the transaction, because I was happy enough with the result, but at the same time, I would NOT have left them positive feedback, because I don't feel they represented the item properly. I didnt leave any feedback, because if I left positive, I'd be lying, but at the same time, I didnt want to leave negative, and hurt their reputation for a single mistake. I think that a single rule to always leave feedback may not apply to every situation as a good idea. I do however, understand your point; some situations just make it difficult to find a single answer.

 

[FLymon]

24 hrs from time of reciept should be enough for anyone to decide that the deal is done or not.

With that being said, unless the condition of the knife is not as described or pictured , a deal is a deal.
There really is no clause for "liking" the item or not. A trader should know what he/she is trading for before the deal is done.

But also, selling a trade item, before one is sure a deal is done, is poor form.

Both parties need to agree to terms before the deal is consumated.

Anytime I sell a knife here I give my buyer 3 days from receiving the knife to return it with no questions asked.
I would never consider any trade "done" until both parties communicate their satisfaction with the deal (in a reasonable amount of time).
I just think "both parties are satisfied" is far too subjective to quantify consistently, and when Mods state as much in threads like these can be misleading since such a statement does not appear in the rules.
Communication is the key. If you are not sure you will like something for sale/trade be upfront and ask if it's ok that you decide if you want to keep the item after receiving. I just think it's wrong to assume a seller/trader should accept a return for "general satisfaction"

Personally, I wouldn't consider any trade or sale complete until each party had informed the other that the item received was acceptable. This is supposed to be a community of like minded enthusiasts, not a cutthroat competition to see who can get the better of whom.

On the other hand, if one party fails to reply (via email, PM, telephone) within a reasonable period after documented receipt then that would be tacit acceptance in my book and the other party couldn't be faulted for moving on at that juncture.

I agree about the community here Elliott and that is why I have, and always will give the 3 days to anyone that buys from me. I don't want to be the reason someone has a bad experience here on Bladeforums.
Even if I personally would rather eat a cold bucket of dog squeeze then renege on a deal because of my personal taste.

He made a mistake listing my knife, and he learned. He's made up for it now, and we both learned a bit about trading. In spite of my feedback, it was only my third trade deal. All the rest have either been buying (mostly) or a few straight sales.

So here's how it all worked out; As I was writing the OP of this thread, my trade partner was writing me a PM retracting his reluctance to reverse the deal. We tossed out a couple of options to get around the problem of the one knife no longer being available. Then today, I was gone all day because of medical issues, and he offered me a choice of a couple different solutions, either of which was acceptable to me. In the end we opted for the one that let him keep the other knife he got. He made very good on his end, and I ship the knife out tomorrow. This is someone I wouldn't hesitate to trade with again.

I am glad this got resolved to everyone satisfaction, and that you would trade with each other again.

 

[ooitzoo]

Ok, let's just break this down:

I was contacted and communicated via PM's on here about a possible trade, and I agreed. We made the trade, the other party getting my end before I did, even though we shipped the same day. The other party was happy, even sold one of the knives I sent before I got my end.

Fail #1: One ought not EVER sell / trade / mod / etc anything until the other side gets their end and is happy.

I'm not happy with the knife I recieved, although the other party in no way did anything wrong. He took good pics, etc. I'm just underwhelmed, and not satisfied.

Sounds like grounds for a reversal.

I asked to reverse the trade and was refused. Am I wrong to expect this trade to be reversible?

Yes, you're right.

I don't know why this needs to be re-iterated (as its been said quite a few times and in the sticky): unless otherwise agreed, no trades / sales are final until both sides are happy. Selling the knife before getting your thumbs up is a HUGE breach of rules and just plain etiquette. Common sense would dictate that you don't list something that doesn't belong to you.

EDIT: Wow, I did not see all of the replies. Guess this has been resolved now.