Trade with R.D.T. ???

OWL

OWL

Feedback: +21 / =0 / -1
Joined
Jul 18, 1999
Messages
723
Below are the complete email transactions that took place between R.D.T. and myself. Any member’s help or feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.

I took out our last names and addresses for security reasons.

From: KSoysauce@aol.com
To: m.beltran@att.net
Subject: Re: Commander?

Hi,

Might a trade be an option on that Commander ?. I have a ton of stuff
posted under the sale/trade section of BF. Take a look and let me know if anything catches your eye. Thanks.....RDT

From: m.beltran@att.net
To: KSoysauce@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander?
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:27:33 +0000

Hey RDT,

I would be interested in a trade for your Spyderco Plainedge zytel Walker, and the Luminox SEAL with the orange face. I have the box and paperwork for the commander. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Manuel (OWL on Bladeforums)

From: KSoysauce@aol.com
To: m.beltran@att.net
Subject: Re: Commander?

Hi Manuel,

Sounds alright. Here's my address:
Richard
Address/last name taken out for security reasons.

Let me know & thanks.....RDT

From: m.beltran@att.net
To: KSoysauce@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander?
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 04:03:06 +0000

Richard,

Ok, I'll send the Commander out tomorrow. Please send the plain Spydie Walker and the Orange face Luminox to me at:

Manuel (last name/address removed.)

Thanks


From: KSoysauce@aol.com
To: m.beltran@att.net
Subject: Re: Commander?

You got it buddy. See ya.....RDT

From: m.beltran@att.net
To: KSoysauce@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander?
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 06:58:08 +0000

Richard,

I finally got your package today, And was under the impression we were both going to ship to each other at the same time. I guess you decided to wait until you got my knife (possibly for fear that you wouldn't get
it?) because UPS said you signed for it on Thursday, which is the same day your package to me is postmarked for. Anyway, I guess that's no big deal, as blind trust is sometimes hard to give. The Walker and Luminox look fine, But I think I'd like to trade back as my Commander is worth more to me than your items. I will ship your stuff back on Tuesday and you can keep the gift I gave you of the Tuf-Cloth for your time.

Thanks,
Manuel

From: KSoysauce@aol.com
To: m.beltran@att.net
Subject: Re: Commander?

Hi Manuel,

Wow I'm sorry you did'nt feel the trade was worthwhile for ya butt unfortunately I gave the Commander to a buddy of mine for his trip to South America !. It arrived just two days before he left and , well....he loved it and he needed a good fast folder so I gave it to him. He won't be back until July.
As for the Tuff cloth firstly I'd like to say thank you very much,I appreciate the freebie. If you like I will send that back to you as I have'nt used it yet.I'm not sure what else I can do to make you feel better about the trade. In all actuality you did get the better half (if you break it down to dollars and cents), as the watch and the Spydie are sold for more than the Commander is at most sites or stores. Anyhow let me know wha ya think & take care.....RDT


From: m.beltran@att.net
To: KSoysauce@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander?
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:35:18 +0000

Richard,

WHAT! You didn't even find out if I was happy with our trade. I can't believe you would give my knife away to someone else! You also didn't address the fact that you
waited to get my knife BEFORE you sent me your stuff! That gave you a few days to look over my knife and GIVE it to someone else before I had even gotten your package, to make a decision. Trade deals on the Forums
have to be agreeable to both parties.I don't think that is the proper way to conduct business nor do I think the other BladeForum members would approve of what you did.Is this the way you conduct transactions with other members? If so, you may need to re-evaluate your practices. I may have gotten the better end of the deal pricewise, but not product wise, in my opinion. How long
did it take you to trade off the watch?, and the linerlock on the Spyderco goes all the way over to the other side. What do you propose to do to rectify this situation?
I propose these options:

1) Pay me my original asking price for the Commander, WHEN I send you back the Seal watch and Spyderco Walker.
Or
2) I will keep the Walker, and you send me your NIB BM 710 and $20 WHEN I send you back the Seal watch.

It goes against my better judgement to trade with you again (as I feel taken advantage of), but If you agree to one of the above we can both move on.

Thanks,
Manuel

From: KSoysauce@aol.com
To: m.beltran@att.net
Subject: Re: Commander?

Hi Manuel,

Hmmmm?, let's see...well I have a very good reputation on the forums so your vague threat to let everyone know of my supposed evil deed does'nt mean much to me. Anyone who knows me(and there's more than a few), know that I do buisness quite fairly and there has been in all my approximately 300
posts and responses only one person besides you that has been dissatisfied and that was also rectified. Anyhow please inform me of what your asking price was as I do not recall the amount. Also take into serious cnsideration that you devalue the knife greatly by changing the scales as you did. Another consideration is that I have no money what soever to spare at the moment. I would certainly pay you outright If I did. Hell if I had money I would have just bought a brand new Commander so what the hell am I trading for ?. As for the other options you
gave me....I'll look them over more carefully and see which is feezable. I won't
know which one is the best course until you remeind me how much you want. I see that one option was that you keep the Walker and I give you the BM 710 and $20.Hmmmmm? well that 710 is about $110. out of my pocket and the walker is about another $45. out of my pocket and then the!re's the $20. you want in addition. That's entirely too much for a used and altered knife that you can get brand new in trhe box from a dealer for about $155. Please get back to me with that price quote and we can continue from there. I'm not against pleasing you just against getting screwed out of more $$ than necessary. After all I figured that you knew what the Luminox was like when you asked for it...an educated consumer is the best customer. Once again you have my apologies. Take care.....RDT

From: m.beltran@att.net
To: KSoysauce@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander?
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 06:39:55 +0000

Richard,

My friend, I make NO threats. If you did business fairly, I'd have my Commander on it's way back to me, and NOT in your friend's pocket. Will you ever address
the fact that you WAITED to ship your goods until AFTER you received mine? The price I had on the Commander was $125, and as far as the scales go, your friend seemed to
like it enough to want it, RIGHT?! If you were so displeased (as you're suggesting) with the knife you should have contacted me, WE COULD HAVE TRADED BACK!. I will take the NIB 710 and $20, which is less than what
you were asking for on the Luminox ($125), and like I said, we can move on.

Thanks,
Manuel

From: KSoysauce@aol.com
To: m.beltran@att.net
Subject: Re: Commander?
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:10:08 EDT

Hi Manuel,

If the knife was that wonderful although not bad at all, I would probably have held onto it but I I figured he's going away and needs a fast knife,he's my buddy after all so why not give it to him as he likes it's draw.
After all I figured we had traded and also figured you knew the Luminox before you traded. I guess I figured wrong and yes I did acknowledge the fact that I did'nt send you the packcage at the same time you did. I did so when I told you that it was not unusual to do that. People do this all the time on the forums. Some don't but most do. The times when you don't is when you are
not familiar with the other party at all. If it's someone with a long and good standing traing history like say COPFISH or Jim Oyoung then there's no reason to be so careful as they are upstanding individuals for sure. I'm sorry once again if that offended you but you really should get over that for it will not be the first time someone does that to you from the forums. I'll get back to you ASAP. Take care.....RDT

From: KSoysauce@aol.com
To: m.beltran@att.net
Subject: Re: Commander?

Hi again,

Are you proposing the following ?:I send you the 710 NIB and you keep the Walker and I also send you $20.You send me back the Luminox.Let me know if this is right or not. See ya.....RDT

From: m.beltran@att.net
To: KSoysauce@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander?
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 23:25:43 +0000

Richard,

That is correct. I can send you the Luminox first, if you want. I hope the 710 is really NIB.

Thank you, Manuel

From: KSoysauce@aol.com
To: m.beltran@att.net
Subject: Re: Commander?

Hi Manuel,

Sorry dude but that's just too much, I'll send you the 710 and $20. but that's it. You'ld be yanking me for far more than the value or even asking price of the Commander. The 710 and $20. should cover your asking price but the Walker and the 710 + $20. is far too much my friend. That would be nearly the full price of a brand new Commander. Actually it would be more than the full price of a brand new Commander if you actually shopped around and did'nt get it through Emerson. So what's next ??, let me know.....RDT

From: m.beltran@att.net
To: KSoysauce@aol.com
Subject: Re: Commander?
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 23:56:06 +0000

Richard,

OK, the NIB 710 & $20 for your Luminox watch returned back to you. That's all I wanted anyway (Well actually I'd rather have my Commander back, but it's gone right?). I'll send it back to you on Monday.

Thanks,
Manuel

From: KSoysauce@aol.
To: m.beltran@att.net
Subject: Re: Commander?
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 19:51:43 EDT

And what about the Walker ?, is it going to be sent along as well ?. Is it still NIB and unused ?.








 
Feedback only:

IMO get what you can and chalk it up to experience. Maddening I know.

FWIW, If you examine his "for sale" posts, they seem to have more than a bit of hype, especially about the watches, again IMO.

Anytime someone starts telling about what great deal they have and how much MSRP is, etc. etc. Sets off warning bells in my mind.

I only mention it in hopes it can be useful when considering ads.

DaveH

 
Just my opinion - the trade isnt complete untill both parties acknowledge that the trade is kosher and both are satisfied.
THEN and only then is the traded knife "yours" to do with as you see fit...
And that includes using it to cut anything bigger than arm hair.
I once had a trade with a fellow who sent my knife back to me after I recieved his and found his definition of like new to include deep scratches and a dull blade. My knife which was NIB was returned with not just deep scratches and a dull blade - but with the action filled with reddish soil! Nice.
Needless to say that was a lesson learned the hard way!
 
Well, here goes....you are both full of it IMO.

Owl, If the merchandise was not in the condition he described, then you would have a valid reason to void the deal, you did not indicate he made any misrepresentation. You seem to have simply changed your mind. That to me is not a good reason to go back on a trade. When you choose to make a trade, then make sure its what you want!! RDT is not Wal-Mart...and I doubt he wants to run a knife/watch rental business just so people like you can check out the merchandise. Had the merchandise not been as described, fine, he should compensate you, but to just say...golly, my knife costs more, doesnt fly.

RDT....your not off the hook either. For you to wait until Owls stuff arrived before you shipped yours is BS. Owl showed trust in you by sending his stuff...and you dont have the stinking courtesy to do the same....not cool. I have made many trades here, and I always ship the merchandise or money just as soon as the post office opens after the deal is made. I expect the other party to do the same. If they dont want to show trust in me like I do them, then I will not deal with them. Its a two way street here.

Owl, from now on if you want to sample the merchandise and be able to return it just because you dont like it, or wanna change your mind, then order from a dealer.

RDT, you should consider showing the same trust in people that they show to you.

End of rant.



------------------
Richard
icq 61363141
Just some knife pictures
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=110070&a=4518795
 
Oh, BTW....I am not the same Richard that Owl is referring to
smile.gif




------------------
Richard
icq 61363141
Just some knife pictures
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=110070&a=4518795
 
I think Richard nailed it pretty much on the head.The only thing I would add,is if you want a return priveledges/no questions asked,then that has to be established at the time before sealing the deal.In my opinion when there is a trade,then both parties go on blind faith and ship at same time unless otherwise agreed.If someone is selling a knife for cash,then the proper normal procedure is to ship upon receiving payment,unless waiting for a personal check to clear.All these things should be discussed upfront.I usually say upon receiving payment I will imediatly ship out package.When trading,I take my chances like the rest of us,but usually only deal with formites with a lengthy history on forums.Like Richard said,I don't feel like I should be treated like a Walmart and I'm not a dealer.When someone buys or trades with me,they better know what they want before a deal has been struck.If its a case of misrepresentation than thats a different story,but I can't afford to have my time and money wasted shipping something around the country to a person that decides he just doesn't want it now.In addition while some clown wasted your time trading or buying the item,you probaby lost a couple of other potential sales,so my opinion is you wanted the knife you got it,and If I lived up to my end of the bargain,then a deal is a deal.Unless like I said,I misrepresent the product and or condition other than that forget it.I do agree though the knife should not be sold or given away or money spent until the other person has received merchandise.Later,Ralph
 
Richard, my thoughts exactly!!! But on top of what you said, I also had a deal with OWL.We traded knife for knife, you can search my feedback on this forum and see that I stand by my stuff.I gave a very honest description of my used knife to OWL.We both got our trades at about the same time, then I get an email from OWL saying how he had to adjust the tension on my Stryker and now after he did this it would not lock open properly, the liner lock would not work right.He then wanted to trade back, BECAUSE HE MESSED UP MY KNIFE HE WANTS TO TRADE BACK! This was my second deal with him.The first deal was for a mini Socom, that was new in the box mint.The person he then sold it to found a broken screw in one of the clip holes.He never contacted me about selling him a knife with a broken screw but he did tell the guy that bought it that the PREVIUOS owner must have done it.If you want you can do a search here under OWL and read all about it.I have not had a problem with RDT.Had to vent here, sorry but OWL will not see any more offers from me.
Thanks guys!
Matt Cucchiara (Pontiaker)

[This message has been edited by Pontiaker (edited 06-08-2000).]
 
-Matt

Why don't you post our emails here so everyone can see what a foul mouth you have and how unprofessionally you handled the situation??? I'd love to see what response you get!

All I did was tighten the pivot screw a little to try to get the liner to fully engage and have the blade line up properly, I don't see how that could SCREW UP AN ALREADY SCREWED UP KNIFE!

I got your dirty, used, and damaged knife and you got a BRAND NEW Hoffman neckknife. Who lost out? I'D SAY I DID!

Also, you didn't sell me the Mini-Socom, I TRADED you for it. I regret that as you got the better of the deal then too! You get credibility with CORRECT information!

I decided to post the above because I was fed up with deals from people who have no integrity or honor!

I bet I get a whole slew of posts from people saying what great deals they've had with you...TOO BAD OURS WASN'T AS SUCH!

-Richard,

PEOPLE LIKE ME? Do you know me?

The main reason I wanted to trade back was the way he conducted business. I also gave this guy a Marine TUF-CLOTH as a gift!

I also found the liner on the zytel Walker I traded for goes all the way over, and there are small tool marks on the watch case from the band being put on incorrectly.

If you know of a Wal-mart that will take trades, especially for EMERSON COMMANDERS, let me know!!!

I need one to replace mine!
 
Here's the email ManuEl.Dealing with someone like you just draws the profanity out! By the way, you could'nt spell my name either (Matt) You have NO integrity or honor! Here's a pic of my terribly dirty knife.http://www.geocities.com/transamin/strykerjr.jpg


MAT,

First of all, my name is spelled MANU(E)L, shows how
much you pay attention to detail. You've been spelling
it with an (A) all along!. Second, The knife was filthy
and rusty, which I had to clean and lubricate. It looked
like you walked into the ocean with it and then carried
it and let lint and all kinds of other crap accumulate
inside it, and then sent it to me. You could have at
least cleaned it a little before you sent it. Was my
knife not clean and in good shape??? Third, the blade
tension/alignment is screwed up and it came that way
from you, and if I were a betting man I'd say you
already knew about it. Benchmade would never take this
knife back!. Forth, sharpening a BLADE and TURNING A
SCREW are not THE SAME THING!!! You must be joking,
right???. Lastly, I am not sending back the knife and
will just chalk this up as the second deal with you that
was sour. The first being the screwed up Microtech.
Instead of blaming me for your screwed up knife you
should take resposibility for what you traded. I will
not deal with you again, and it's a shame.

> Hi Manual, I dont have a problem trading back or paying for the Tanto, but I
> do have a problem with you trying to adjust my knife, screwing up the blade
> alignment.There was no reason to adjust the blade tension?? Here's the way
> I'll do it, send me the Stryker back, I will look at it, if it can be
> returned to the original condition that it was in WHEN I SENT IT TO YOU, I
> will trade back.If you have screwed up the knife by messing up the
> tension/alignment, I am sorry but you will have to live with your mistake.I
> will have to send it back to you.I would not have had a problem taking the
> knife back but if you screwed it up, you should have to live with it, or send
> it back to Benchmade.
> How would you like it if I said I got the Tanto and it was not sharp
> enough for me so I decided to sharpen it, but when I sharpened it I broke the
> tip off, or screwed up the edge, basically screwed it up, you would not give
> me my knife back in that situation for your knife that I screwed up?? Would
> you?? Let me know if you want to send it back to me for inspection.
>
> Thanks
> Matt
>
> m.beltran@att.net wrote:
>
> > Hey Matt,
> >
> > I got the Stryker on tuesday. I think I'd like to trade
> > back, it was pretty dirty and had some rust spots. I
> > also tried to adjust the blade tension, and when I did
> > the blade went out of alighnment and was going to rub
> > the liner. Too many things to try and fix. You can
> > either send the hoffman back or send me a M.O. for $50,
> > whatever you decide is fine. Thanks alot for your time.
> >
> > Best,
> > Manuel
> > > Hi Manual, did you get my Stryker Jr today? I did receive the Tanto
> > > neck knife today, it looks pretty nice.Let me know what you think about
> > > the stryker.
> > > Thanks!
> > > Matt
> > >
>
Matt,

You sound GUILTY to me. Do you think you can get you
point across without profanity, or maybe I've been
dealing with a child?? That would explain everything.

Take care buddy boy,
Manuel

> Manuel, so now it was screwed up when I sent it to you?? Before it got screwed
> up
> AFTER you messed with it! I still have your last E-mail, that is how YOU
> explained it! This just proves that you dont know what the hell your doing
> selling
> and trading knives on the Baldeforums lists! You probably ****ed up the
> Microtech
> you got from me also, thats why you did you not complain about it to me before!
> There was nothing wrong with the Socom or the Benchmade you got from me!
>
> It will be a cold day in Hell before I deal with you again!

[This message has been edited by Pontiaker (edited 06-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Pontiaker (edited 06-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Pontiaker (edited 06-08-2000).]
 
Wow. This seems all too familiar.

I too had a trade with Mr. Beltran in which he wanted to trade back due to a product not meeting his expectations. (Overall knife design, ugly and poor fitting sheath.)

I was harassed via e-mail with him threatening to "go public" with our trade. I told him to go ahead and post away and we would see who's reputation held up. He eventually posted a little snippet of something inconsequential.

I was pleased with the description and quality of the knife I received and have offered to do business with Mr. Beltran again (with a 3 day inspection time
smile.gif
) since then in hopes that he has changed a little. It appears that he hasn't.
 
-MAT,

You forgot to include the EMAIL where you told me to go F**k myself and then called me every name in the book. That part must have just slipped you mind?

I also spelled your name INCORRECTLY here and in our last few emails because you gave no regard to how my name was spelled. Maybe you don't know how to spell?

As I stated before you did, I will not deal with a MAN??? who acts like CHILD.

If you have anything else to say about me start a NEW POST!


RDT's side of the story is posted above. If he could agree to one of my terms ( I should have that right since he gave away my knife, and they are very reasonable ) we could move on.

Where are you RDT?

 
Hey Guys..

Not to get involved in anyones business,, I however did want to say how I conduct my trades here on BF..

Usually when I'm trading I trade knife(s) for sheath(s)

When we have hacked out what each other wants, I usually send the sheath(s) as the deal has been struck, or I may have to make it.

Now when I'm trading knives for sheaths I have to custom make,, which is usually the case, the knife I've taken on trade gets put into a huge drawer in my workbench.

My in house knives are on one side, Customers and makers knives are on the other.

They stay there until the customer gets his sheaths or such a time where We are both satisified with the trade.

Then and Only then are they transfered to "My" side of the drawer,or for that matter even played with.

Knives that I have taken on trade get looked over, tested a few times and put away. I won't "Bond" with a knife until I know it's Mine.

Just the way I like to handle my transactions is all...

ttyle Eric...



------------------
Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel
Custom made, High Quality
Concealex Sheaths and Tool Holsters
Canada's Only Custom Concealex Shop!

 
Sorry Manuel but those are all the Emails about the trouble we had with that deal! I still have ALL of them in my trash,sent mail box! The one time I used profanity is in the email above except that Bladeforum software has added XXX's to cover up my slip. If I really had sent you some mail like that I am sure you would have posted it already!

Hi Joel! I am sorry to hear your time was also wasted by OWL. I am glad to see your still around, and I look forward to our next deal.See ya Joel!
Matt (Pontiaker)
 
Hi all,
Well this is what some of you have been waiting for ...I guess?. My side of the story....Hmmmmm? as you can plainly see OWL has a knack for stirring things up a bit when totally uncalled for. If you peruse my e-mails to him you would see that I was completely willing to work things out but not at any additional expense to me. I mean hey I'm not a friggin bank !. He never responded to my last e-mail about the Walker !?, he seems to have thought that because he was unsatisfied with the trade that he could just keep it and I would capitulate....HA!. I'm no sucker friends that's for damn sure. He could have had the 710 and the $20. ...that would have added up to a little more than his asking price and I was totally willing to do that but I guess he liked the Walker well enough to first say that he would keep that as well and then secondly to not respond at all and avoid the situation and bring it out later on the forums. Personally I don't give a damn what OWL's hang ups are and it would seem and a few people would agree that he's got a couple. OWL, you really need to let go that hurt ego and get on with your life. I too have had strange dealings with forumites in the past but never felt the need to post school boy nonsense about them as they did'nt entirely screw me over, some people operate differently and that's that. As for not sending the package out at the same time well... that's not an unusual practice and I've had it done to me many times with no hard feelings ....again someone had a wounded ego or something. Yeah I realize it might not seem cool to withhold a package but that was'nt really my intent, I mean hey I've got a life and must go to work like the rest of you maybe even more than some of you so I can't always make it to the P.O. exactly when I hope. That was the original reason I did'nt send it out right away so when he e-mailed me with his concerns I was like uhhh? well I did'nt realize we were supposed to do that as we never said that would be the course of action. On the other hand if it's someone I know already or someone with a good and longstanding rep on the forums I may try harder to get to the P.O. because I know them already or know they are trustworthy folk. Basically I don't know OWL from a hole in the wall and now I don't care to either so ....WHATEVER. Lastly I would like to say thank you to all who've responded to this post it's been a good laugh and I appreciate the back up from those of you that chimed in and those of you that have read this and e-mailed me directly with your kind words. See now OWL (Manuel), now there's no reconciliation, there's no compensation and the issue for me is now dead. All it would have taken was a little more compromise and we could have ironed it out with out this crap going on. Some people will never be satisfied I guess. Take care all and thanks again.....RDT

------------------
RDT.
 
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