Traditionals and Tacticals

With all due respect to the forum I am posting on, I have actually moved away from traditionals and toward the "tacticals" to be more specific, away from the cases and to the spydercos. There have been some real disapointments behind that move. On case stockmans blades whose parts grind against one another, becoming progressively more difficult to open. Blades on Cases with burrs, that require type and effort to resharpen.

The spydercos on the other hand never disapoint. I had to be honest and consider the two pocket knives I was carrying, a yellow case stock man or a zytel handle spyderco dragonfly. My daily carry knives, the dragon fly lived on the edge of my pocket, when ever something needed to be cut out it would zip, another zip and the blade was out and the job was done.
versus fishing for the stockman in the pocket, getting it out, looking at the thing to find the nail nick, opening it, noting the grinding of parts that was getting worse and stiffer everyday. Instead of sending it back, I handed it to a buddy and told him it was his.

Now I done with case, I will never go back, and my next knife is going to be a different spyderco model.

The 'tacticals" ARE better in terms of function. Whether they are charming or nostalgic is another matter, then again the nostalgic aspect loses its appeal when I realize I could have something that WORKS alot better in my pocket.
 
It is all good.

Couple of things come to mind, as I guess they do to everyone the more years they continue to live and age.

--Decade they were born.
I was born in Mid-Fifties in the Southern US. Everyone is a product of their raising . Language, Dialect of Language, Economics, Climate, Culture, Adults, Peers, Education, Industry...Adages.

Adages...they stick as that is what one actually grew up "doing" and "being".

A Tool is never any better than user of said tool.


I get a bit tickled when some ask on Fora -"What Gun for Snakes" and the truth is more snakes have probably been killed by a Garden Hoe than any other tool down here in the South. :D

Folks back then did not do "Joe's Hardware" Hoe vs "Martha's Hardware Store" Hoe either. :p

--Tools for Task

Strategy & Tactics Context of these two words have "changed" over the years.

Today they are most often used as Marketing Catch Words or Buzzwords.
Like those obnoxious catchy jingles Politicians use so voters will remember them...standing there to vote, and get to a certain office to vote for and depending if the jingle was cute, or obnoxious - vote accordingly.

Used to be...

Strategy - A plan of action intended to accomplish a specific goal.
Tactics - Method of which a strategy was carried out to accomplish said goal.

Growing up, we did not have Central Heat and Air. It get hot and humid here in the South. We didn't even use heat index - we just knew it was hotter than the day before even though the thermometer said it was the same temperature.

Emerson fan into the window sill, raise a few window and draw moving air through the house.
Well to do folks had a Attic fan.
Big deal when Water Coolers came out...
Glory be when Air Conditioners came out and these went into window sills.

Knives.
Knives were tools. Farmers, Ranchers, Electricians, Fixing supper, Cook in Diner, kids playing mumbley peg.

I do not recall seeing a locking knife until I was older. Knives were for cutting, and depending on what was being cut - determined what knife was used.
Learning to use a pocket-knife / slip-joint proper - matter of common sense and safety.
Mentors said never learn on a crutch , lose the crutch you will fall down.


Folks are coming up and not being raised right, get these newfangled knives and getting hurt. They do not know the proper way to use and handle a knife and are breaking a huge rule "we" learned early in my day :
Never trust a safety device

Four Rules of Gun Safety was taught early ...
Same principle applies to a lot of life.

Anything can and will fail.
Early on, with these new locking knives, and folks using them proper - locks failed.
No injuries - simple because the folks using them KNEW how to use a knife.
Now we got a knife blade just going back and forth and not good for anything...
Go back in history with Peasant knives, folks doing the real work, these did not have but one blade and if not a fixed blade - it folded without a lock.

Our friends in the UK - by law - are restricted to a non-locking knife with a blade no more than 3".
I hate the politics behind this - still our Friends in the UK and elsewhere, have a long history of getting "work" done with such a knife.

It was the Elite - not doing any real work, that had fancy handles and more than one blade to show off status and power.

Humm...funny how the more things change, the more they remain the same.

---
Back when ...
Everyone carried a pocket knife [slip-joint] girls, boys, men and women. One was not dressed proper without some kind of knife on person.

We took knives to school and used them to sharpen pencils - sometimes that had cranked sharpener - was just that stubborn.

Ladies cut loose threads, cut, peeled fruit...
Men, cut rope, feed sacks, needed to punch leather and fix something on horse tack - miles from the house/ barn.

Pocket Knife and Fixed Knives - what we used.

Old Hickory Butcher knives - Hog killing time, or getting into a Watermelon - though if the truth be known , melon tastes better when you bust them open on a rock, picnic table or fence post or... ;)

That big old knife was not the best tool for cutting a loose a thread, cutting off excess braided fishing line after tying on a hook, or whittling to make tinder to make a fire.

Funny thing was - smaller knives "cut" and being thinner "sliced". Even back then a hardware store pocket knife, with carbon steel blades and white handles that were supposed to look like Mother of Pearl - did things bigger knives could not.

Not a matter of getting a knife out fast - folks thought ahead, had a method of going about doing things - and carrying it out.

One handed is not a new thing, besides fixed blades , including small "whittlling" or "carving knives"...

Carton Cutters - replaceable single edge razor blades - like the grocer uses/ used to open boxes - were right handy for one handed operation- still are.
I still use one today. Flat, retracts, and if I remove the blade and insert into "scraper" feature at the base ( which acts like a stop), I can remove stickers/ decals off glass, and - dead bugs off a windshield .

Finish this chore, put blade back as a carton cutter - and back to cutting boxes, string, whatever.
I loan to someone - don't care if they break it, lose it - often times give them one for them to have...
Last one given was to someone cutting heater hose for a vehicle. We got the hose, cut to length, and did not have to take a chance on his SAK , or my Trapper having to hit metal, (nicking blade) or as I have done, leaving under the hood , on a fender, roof top, ...or dropping it and losing it.

Mine were free - hardware store gets $1.89 best recall for these.
Break a razor, use the other end of razor - one gets two "cutting edges" off one blade. Easy to replace blade and not expensive.

Flat, no pocket clips, nothing to convey to anyone ' That guy is tactical - maybe he carries a gun concealed and I will hold him up with buddies to take his CCW".
What guns? What knives?

Reminds me of the old bull and the young bull. Young bull wants to run down and get a cow..
Old bull suggests walking down and getting all the cows...

Marketing is a powerful force, especially with more Media Input resources we have gained over the years.

Another old truism comes to mind:
Ninety percent of fishing lures are made to attract fisher-persons - not fish.


Sorry for going long, then again not. Got a email from a single mom, she wanted to share how her son is doing.
Not long ago this young man got his very own pocket-knife. Now he has Grandpa's old ones...and he proved himself responsible with a Old Timer Grandpa dulled the blades on so he could learn "proper" use and care.
He did not want this knife sharpened - Grandpa has since passed on.

"Mom - I am big enough for my first knife of my very own"

I was invited by this young man to accompany him at the Farm/Feed store.

He knew what he wanted, he knew questions to ask. Sales clerk understood this rite of passage, and was most patient and helpful.
Other sales clerks, other customers with swelled up chests and grins...
Young man stepped onto that wooden block of wood, looked into the Case knife display and chose his first knife.

He gave the sales clerk a coin besides the money for buying it too.

Everyone wanted to see HIS new knife, and they shared what was in their pockets with him.

I was honored to be invited and to be a part of this rite of passage.

May some things never change...


Steve
 
Steve, that was a great post, with many good points made. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

You're very right that in general people stick to what they were growing up and the things that surrounded and influenced them. We will reflect the values and input we received in our young years.
 
jackknife,

It is that thanks you and others like you.
I have read your wonderful stories, and though we are from different parts of the US - we share a common bond.
We are passing forward as passed to us. Our Mentors and Elders will never be forgotten as long as we do so.

I write attempt to share in writing these things. I grew up reading Robert Ruark, every person should read The Old Man And The Boy .
Now what I attempt to do - is pass on ethics, principles, morals and all that is 'right' - when I write, or share a story.

Like your works - sure the story is great - the lessons contained therein are timeless!

-Hot Dog forked stick -
-Whittlin' a plug for a shotgun to meet Migratory Game Regs
-Tinder for a fire
-Tying line to a cane pole - oh there is a "art" to this, just as there is cane pole fishing.

-Kinda hard to made Boat that floats out of Ivory Soap with a knife too thick in the blade, and a bit to hard to manipulate. This is done to relax, show a kid, and kids will want to take a bath to play with this new toy. :p

Folks get in a hurry going nowhere. Truth is - we do not know how much time we have on earth - good idea to make the best of it.

Nothing wrong in collecting , pride of ownership, preserving history - nothing wrong at all with these things...

Knowing the correct basic fundamentals is the key. One can build upon these things, be it for shooting a firearm, making a "hot dog stick" , or tying a square knot. Got to know the basics...

When the A/C goes out - knowing what a Attic Fan is, and knowing you have one (wondered what them louvers were in the hall ceiling? :p ) raising some windows makes life tolerable until the AC is fixed.

Just like having a fireplace and the heat goes out....
Firing up the BBQ grill to cook when the power goes out...

Think. Think outside the box.

Carry a pocketknife is a powerful tool. That tool being Mindset. It shows a person, male or female can Think. The pocket knife (tool) is just one tool in the toolbox - not THE tool.

Kinda hard to tote a metal skewer for roasting a hot dog around, I guess you could with some of these 'bat belts' some folks wear...:D
Then again a bit easier to just use a pocket knife to make one. :)


It is about to kill my soul in regard to Swiss Army Knives. Matter of Principle with me.
Kept various Camillus or Case Camp knives in the truck in case I needed something to cut cheese, apples, open a Coke (which in the South is generic for any soft drink) open a tin can, get caught with vehicle trouble ....

Mine disappeared and I have SAK Spartan doing vehicle duty. Took a bit of doing to accept this - my rationale being, it does not have character and soul, not expensive and if I lose it - not so much loss.

Lost my Case Peanut with pen blade and scissors. Been wearing a mustache since I was 20 and scissors come in handy...ain't the same toting a SAK Classic...

I like carbon steel or Case CV blades. I used hand tools for years as I shared elsewhere on this forum. I want a steel to do some things, and Joe Talmadge has written and shared a lot which goes along with how raised.
What steel for the tool for the task
Just because it is new - does not mean it is the best steel for that tool for the task.

Nothing wrong with collecting....dang not easy finding a simple pocketknife
with 1095 or CV blades to do what I want. Plenty of fancy handles with Stainless blades...
Pretty much around here if one wants to pick on out, head to a Mom&Pop Hardware store , or Farm/Feed store and get a Yellow handle Case with CV blades...

I like that whole line of Case Yellow handled knives with CV blades...Barehead Trapper and Trapper Jr my favorites. Peanut...little fella surprises one with what all it can do.

SAK Solo - red nylon handles is about 048 size and tossed in a bag in case of emergencies, gave about $8 for it new.
Tossed a SAK Pocket Pal in the bag too - Paid about $9 for it best recall...

Kinda sad, sorta irks me, these SAKs. Kicking and screaming having to accept the Fact these knives are doing what I grew up for the money.

Been told I need a Alox Soldier . I know I do, had one once. Just...well...for too many years a single blade worked for me, getting fancy was a Trapper,and on some farm/ ranch stuff - a Stockman was used.

Where be the awl with a main blade on a knife like I grew up with? Camp knives got them, SAKS got the awl. Cinch [tm] is doing one finally...Just I want knife without a can/bottle/ corkscrew and all.

I own one locking knife - Case Mako Shark. Not used it in years! It was a special gift . Mentor got himself one, got me one later - then "young'un, nice knife and all - but you know, them Trappers always worked"
Seems we would tote these Sharks and use the Trapper. :p

I was given a few locking knives to "test and evaluate" [Read : maybe the boy will figure out we have indoor plumbing now-a-days].

Hey I use a 'puter and 'Net finally - that took some doing...decided to go to college after working in business 35 years and "class, your syllabus in at this website".
I knew what a syllabus was - this "website" business was a new thing...

Tested these knives - and some where $$$. Some failed, and some not up the way I think and do things.

Ticked me off and other things that $8 SAK Solo out did these knives.

My "toting" fixed blade? $2 Old Hickory Paring knife. If I carry it in a hip pocket in its cardboard sheath I made - regulations call that "concealed" and if so I need a blade less than 3.5" for a concealed knife.

Been doing this since I was a pup...darn 1095 blade takes and keeps an edge, easy to touch up and ...has handled, continues to handle any chore I toss at it.
Cleaning fish and game, tinder for a fire, cutting rope, making a lean to for shelter...

Fancy locking knives failed, good thing I had one of my Old Hickory Paring Knives and Barehead Trapper...

Couple of folks out with me and folks like me - had knives fail. We tossed them a spare Paring knife, or one of them Solos

Less money for a quality knife that worked.

Make a person re-think life just a bit.

Old, New , it is all good. Little lady got a Pink Cricket .22 rifle, sitting next to her I was using someone's old Rem 514.

"Not the gun so much - but the person using the gun - right". - she said.

Amazing what a person can learn from a kid ain't it? ;)
 
I have a Spyderco Endura that I love, I use it as a prybar, pick, hammer, etc. I carry it everywhere. It is a great knife, but I have no real "passion" pertaining to it, as it is of the "tactical" style. But I would NEVER dream of abusing one of my older Traditional knives in the same manner, as I love and enjoy them even more. My Uncle Henry Old Timer Stockman is a cherished gift, I have had for over 2 decades, and I hope for many more. I would never abuse it like a "tactical"... I guess I see Tactical knives as tools, pure and simple, where older (or older style) Traditional knives are not only tools, but works of art, some worthy of collecting.
 
It is normal ( whatever "normal" is supposed to be) for folks to go through stages and cycles.
My Mentors called them Dimensions - granted other names were used...but we cannot type those words here...:p

Normal to do what we do growing up. Girls like pink and bows and boys like blue and stomping in muddle puddles. Girls have "cooties" and boys are "yucky".

That old set of Old Hickory Kitchen knives, the Mother of Pearl Imitation handles the Mom's and other women carried, and the pocket knives the Men carried are ...just old fashioned.
Cast Iron Cookware is ...too old fashioned...
Blue and Wood Revolvers , shotguns and all ...just...well darn it all! Don't these old farts "know" we got better knives , better cookware, better guns that hold more rounds and come in new calibers?

Time passes.
That newfangled cookware has to be replaced from time to time seems the coating once scratched is toxic.
Humm...about the third or fourth time it dawns on a person "Cast Iron old Mom and Dad been using is older than me and still going strong...

Humm..."these kitchen knives get dull just sitting out, oxygen dulls them...old farts still using Old Hickory..."

"I got my knife out faster, with one hand than the old farts - but sorta embarrassed my niece, nephew, kids ...by not being able to whittle a hot dog stick..."


True.

Happy Dog in the bed of the truck with a leash attached to truck tie down. Just a smiling and having a good time. Owner just ran in for a second.

Dog being such a happy dog jumped out of bed of truck - figures he recognized someone or their kids and was essentially "hung".

I heard the "yelp and started over that way.
Younger feller was closer and could not cut the leash with his newer knife with the neat lock and coated finish.
Dog was scared and not knowing anything except "fright" and all.

I used a Carton Cutter and zipped through the lease.

I have done the same with a pocket knife. Now we talk of "Serious Situations"...I would call this a serious situation - this dog being "hung" from a truck.

All I am suggesting is finding out what really works for you for your task.

Like shotguns - It does not matter what a barrel, a choke or a box of shells "says".
What does the Pattern Board Reveal?

My needs are not met with a Clam knife or Oyster knife for what I do.
Then again would what I use for my tasks be the best choice for someone needing a shell fish knife?

Produce knife works great for produce, without a point - just squared off...
Awls come in handy for Ranching...

It is all good -

Had a great time the other day, got to use my "Church Key" :p
Bought a can of Chicken broth for a recipe - did not want the can with pull top...principle of the thing...
One needs to keep up "Church Key" skills...

Agree? :D


Steve
 
Good posts and good points Steve.

I used to get caught up in the Canon vs Nikon, PC vs MAC, this vs that, and that, and that. After a little while I learned that they were all just tools. Sure some did some things better, while the others did other things better. However, when I learned a few things I realized that they were all just tools. If you knew how to use them, then you could get the job done with any of them. At one time I carried a Nikon FM and a Canon AE1-P in the same camera bag and made a living with them. For a long time I had contempt for the normal (50mm) lens, until a situation caused me to only have a 50mm to use along with a battered old camera. I quickly came to appreciate just how much a fellow with some thinking and an eye could do with that lens. It made me a better photographer.

Sure, in certain types of gear, be it guns, cameras, computers, or whatever, I may find that certain brand and/or models have features that work best for me and my usages, but if I have the skill and talent, then whatever I have I can make work as I need it, no excuses allowed.
 
sm2,

Reading your posts alone make me want to use only old fashioned slipjoint pocket knives. Thank you so much for the good content that is your posts.

The only thing I cannot tell from your posts is if you do like or do not like swiss army knives. Please explain if you do not mind.
 
SAKs

Acceptance is the key as the saying goes.

Wrestling with this SAK bit, doing some fussing, cussing, kicking and biting.

I have to accept them - even though I do not "have to" like them.

SAks ticks me off in a couple of ways.

1. Original Soldier , Alox handle - great knife and proven.
Spartan I suppose being the next well known and recognized.

Kinda feel SAKs went a bit bonkers and got caught up on Marketing with adding this and that. Not for "practical" need or use - instead more of a race to see how much stuff could be crammed into a package. Then folks brainwashed with the "gotta haves".

Like disposable razors - started with one blade, then two. Then it got to be 3 blades to get a shave...
47 blades. 47 seems like a good number and I figure when they finally figure out how to cram 47 blades into the head of disposable razor - some new race of some type will hit for the shaving market.

Of course folks cannot rinse out a disposable razor past about two blades as it is - who cares? It is all about how many blades is crammed into the thing.



2. SAK Solo and Pocket Pal sell for less than $10.

Here we have two knives that Walk, Talk, easy to sharpen, and flat work.

Got a Solo , red nylon jobbie, about the size of a Barehead Trapper.
Like a frigging bank vault! Got more "snap" than some Locking knives in a emergency kit.

Pocket Pal - same way. Picked this up out of town and wanted to piddle and whittle. Oh, wanted to have a spare knife in a hotel room to cut fruit, make sandwiches and all.

Less that $10 and these knives have more ...more...( I hate this) craftsmanship, attention to detail, fitting , Quality control , sharp out of box , warranty....etc.


Explain to me how come a CAD/ CAM and CNC set up doing some of these Tactical knives - selling for Ten or Twenty times as much money - are not this good?

Got any idea how come some Production Knives selling for Three, Four, Five times these do - are not this good a knife?


I know what happened. When all the drive-in picture shows disappeared....
All the Mom&Pop Picture shows with the balconies went out where couples ...err...if I gotta explain it you would not understand...
When these Picture Show places played out...life stuff started going downhill - real fast.

Knife companies are not the only folks that have gone goofy on us all.
 
I carry both. As I get older, I tend to use lockbacks more and more, as I find them to be much more convenient. So much for gravitating to traditional as you get older. I do, however, still carry a traditional to use for tasks when I'm enjoying leisure time. When I'm fishing or whittling, or something like that, out comes the stockman.

So I use whatever works best. Traditionals haven't been traditionals that long. If you go back a couple of hundred years, you'd find a very different definition of traditional knife.

Either way, they're all good, and no, it doesn't have to be an either/or. I like both.
 
Although I enjoy both styles, I am concerned that the sheer number of "tactical" style knives being used and carried will get the attention of Police and lawmakers at both State/Fed level. I fear this will result in another attempt at the "Legislation of Morality", and Traditional style knives will also end up banned/outlawed due to a "feel good" law. These Tach knives are the "assault" weapons of the knife world.
 
Like disposable razors - started with one blade, then two. Then it got to be 3 blades to get a shave...
47 blades. 47 seems like a good number and I figure when they finally figure out how to cram 47 blades into the head of disposable razor - some new race of some type will hit for the shaving market.
I get the biggest laugh out of this. In the mid 1970s, back when SNL was actually funny, they did one of their fake commercials for a 3 bladed razor. It was perfect: Looked just like an Atra ad from the time. You didn't know it was a joke until they got to the final screen: "Triple Track: Because You'll Buy Anything".

When they started trying to sell these razors for real a few years ago I almost bust a gut.

Understand, I've worn a full beard for almost 30 years.

-- Sam
 
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