Traditionals outnumbering moderns

[cudgee]

cudgee ,

I think its the same all over. I drive out to California a couple times a year, through West Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona. Sometimes I stop at these little towns in the middle of nowhere and theres old boards up buildings and a look of abandonment. Kind of like the movie set for Bad Day At Black Rock.

If I ask the gas station attendant why so many buildings are boarded up, I usually get the answer that, "Oh, everyone has moved off to (whatever big city is down the road, Tucson, El Paso, whatever) "

It seems that nowadays folks don't want to live out in some small ranch or farm community if they can get a job in some nice air conditioned building and a nice office cubicle. So many times I'll get off the highway to get gas or a meal, and aside form the gas stop, everything else is just blowing away. Everyone has left for the bright lights and big city.

Mate that is a very interesting observation. We have the same thing happening over here, where small rural towns are dying. But we have the reverse problem in rural towns that are closer to the big cities, because of the explosion in house prices in our capital cities, a lot of people are moving to these towns and travelling to the Capital or bigger cities to work. The major flaw in this idea is, we have families moving in and having families, that in itself is not a problem, but when the kids get older with nothing to do, CRIME is rife. I am house sitting my brother-in law's house at the moment while he is overseas, he lives in a place called Kyneton, a beautiful little town an hour out of Melbourne with a fantastic train service. They are currently building 2 housing estates with 1500 houses going up, this is going to change the demographic of the town and it's charm. But in years to come when the families that move in kids reach teenage years, with not much to do for them, there is going to be problems. It is sad, but it is happening in a lot of smaller rural towns closer to bigger cities and employment hubs, we have a huge problem with drugs in our rural towns, and it is only getting worse, sadly. You have a good day my friend, have enjoyed reading your posts.

 

[Deadman 300]

What most people don't realize, and this includes knife nuts, the whole modern knife thing is an artificially created phenomenon to stimulate market sales and continued sales. It has very very little to do with giving the end consumer a "better" knife, but to create a continuing market driven by the "next step up that you absolutely have to have."

Look back in time to a hundred years ago, or even two hundred years. What did the working cowboy pushing some ornery long horns up the trail to the railheads carry, or a freight wagon driver pulling a load of goods to the destination? Or some poor sailor working a square rigger around the horn to San Fransisco in the 1800's? Or even just a humble store clerck in a dry goods store?

They had single blade lock blades in the 1800's. When John Wilkes Booth was killed at Garrets barn in 1865, he had a folding dagger on him. Its on display at the Fords Theater museum in Washington D.C.. Its a nice one, with bone handles and a slim spear point blade. But the lock backs never were really popular with the working men. Not like the humble Barlow and other two blade jacks like the harness jacks, congress patterns. Or the cattle knife, or its genesis the premium stockman.

One hand opening? Most folks never gave it much thought because it was not an issue in working for living. If they did need a one hand knife, they had the original one hand knife; the sheath knife. It wasn't broken so it wasn't called a fixed blade back then like they are called now. Certainly some cowpoke dealing with half broke horses or branding wild cattle for a drive needed a good knife in his daily job description. But a simple jack seemed to do. Factory workers and shipping clerks the same.

The problem was after WW2, there was a great migration to the cities and better jobs. Returning GI's didn't want to back to daddies farm. Life in the cites and office jobs, warehouse jobs, delivery truck jobs, all changed the course of life in American. My own father was a prime example. He came from a working watermen family but he never returned to the eastern shore of Maryland. He moved to Washington D.C. for his new job and settled there. The new climate, the office cubicle, made a knife something not really needed anymore. By the 1970's a number of large U.S. knife companies were belly up with more following. The pocket knife market was dying. So, they came up with a new idea; promote the knife a thats part survival tool, and part tactical weapon in case of Russian paratroopers or the end of the world as we know it. The 1980's saw the birth of the tactical knife market. The sale of the knife as a ego driven fantasy cult worship object. A knife with certain features that were dubious in nature and questionable need. One company even showed their knife was capable of piercing a car door. Must have been some rogue Chevy's out there. I guess the office cubicle can be a dangerous place.

But, what do I know. I'm an old curmudgeon that doubts a lot of the new stuff. I guess in all those times I needed a knife, I somehow survived with a old fashioned pull it open slip joint. I must have been very lucky. I've been up on ladders and didn't need to one hand open a knife, in spite cutting painters tape. I've been out in the boonies lots of times, but never needed a folding knife strong enough to pry open a tank hatch. Heck, I've even been off to war in a hot jungle in Southeast Asia and got by with a regular pocket knife. If I absolutely needed something more, they gave us this pointy thing that fit on the end of our M16's called a bayonet. The supply room had lots of Camillus made TL-29's and 'demo' knives to hand out.

The so called conveniences they sell don't really mean much in the real world. Not compared to the convenience of having multiple blades available that have not only different edges, but different blade shapes for different jobs. Like the sheep foot of a stockman, or the screw driver tool on a scout knife. I tried a modern knife, once. Once was enough to experience the limitation of having just one blade that half the time was too big and awkward or doesn't have the most simple tool to improvise with.

I think a lot of the "super steels" probably fit in with the whole marketing campaign too. Granted, some of them are excellent steels but they can come at a cost, such as being too brittle and easy to chip or harder to sharpen because of the increased edge retention.

Thanks for the insight. I never really looked at it that way.

 

[Hickory n steel]

What most people don't realize, and this includes knife nuts, the whole modern knife thing is an artificially created phenomenon to stimulate market sales and continued sales. It has very very little to do with giving the end consumer a "better" knife, but to create a continuing market driven by the "next step up that you absolutely have to have."

Nothing you said sounds wrong to me.
Also I'd wager that most things we cut on a daily basis haven't changed much.
More cardboard being cut with the crate being less common than it was, and we now have blister packaging, but beyond that in a factory setting there's still twine to use a knife on, and there's still steel strapping and bailing type wire which you use cutters on.

I doubt anything we have to deal with today is inherently more difficult to cut than what was dealt with before the modern tactical beast knife craze hit.
If these kinds of knives were really necessary in today's world case and Utica would be out of business.

 

[Misplaced Hillbilly]

I did the modern thing, Gerber and Kershaw was my favorite CRKT as well. I liked the Kershaw blur quite a bit even if the last 1/16-1/8 od the point ALWAYS snapped off, just got good at re-profiling tips . Ken Onion designed some of the most ergonomic moderns. But the vast majority are to thick of blade to cut efficient, and I wonder sometimes if the designer has ever seen a human hand I've never really seen the need for super steels. I know how to sharpen,to some it might factor in.YouTube is rife with guys who have a particular knife and love it, but as soon as its offered in the latest super steel at 3 times the cost will tell you how much you gotta have the new one, and the old super steel is junk. Never mind it was over priced by 300% to begin with. Dont get me wrong I believe in paying for quality, but not for fashion. But I also like Ford trucks, I believe a 4x4 Ford is more durable than a 4x4 Chevy. I like the looks of them more, but I guarantee that there's someone resding this that disagrees 100%. And thats ok Ford and Chevy both sell trucks every day. I like all of them if they're made before 1987, old trucks and Jeeps are cool Nothing wrong with liking moderns, I held onto a few, won a couple in the Blade Forums year of give aways YouTube live stream. But I now find traditionals more interesting, I like history so that aspect plays a big part for me. I find them more aesthetically pleasing,and for me better at actually cutting things. As for one handed opening, switchblade knives were quite popular up until the 50's when some asinine feel good laws were passed banning carrying themalmost everywhere. Also this pattern came into being

 

[cudgee]

I did the modern thing, Gerber and Kershaw was my favorite CRKT as well. I liked the Kershaw blur quite a bit even if the last 1/16-1/8 od the point ALWAYS snapped off, just got good at re-profiling tips . Ken Onion designed some of the most ergonomic moderns. But the vast majority are to thick of blade to cut efficient, and I wonder sometimes if the designer has ever seen a human hand I've never really seen the need for super steels. I know how to sharpen,to some it might factor in.YouTube is rife with guys who have a particular knife and love it, but as soon as its offered in the latest super steel at 3 times the cost will tell you how much you gotta have the new one, and the old super steel is junk. Never mind it was over priced by 300% to begin with. Dont get me wrong I believe in paying for quality, but not for fashion. But I also like Ford trucks, I believe a 4x4 Ford is more durable than a 4x4 Chevy. I like the looks of them more, but I guarantee that there's someone resding this that disagrees 100%. And thats ok Ford and Chevy both sell trucks every day. I like all of them if they're made before 1987, old trucks and Jeeps are cool Nothing wrong with liking moderns, I held onto a few, won a couple in the Blade Forums year of give aways YouTube live stream. But I now find traditionals more interesting, I like history so that aspect plays a big part for me. I find them more aesthetically pleasing,and for me better at actually cutting things. As for one handed opening, switchblade knives were quite popular up until the 50's when some asinine feel good laws were passed banning carrying themalmost everywhere. Also this pattern came into being

Mate, exactly what you said, each to his own. I have only ever had 2 modern folders, so i should not be commenting, but something else you said, the 2 i had were not good slicers, the spine was too thick. If you compare the 2 i had with a Waynorth Lamb Foot, there is no comparison, Waynorth slices like everything is made of butter. Hope your well, and enjoy your fall, i believe it starts today.

 

[knarfeng]

Anybody else having this "problem"?

I myself have been a knife nut for a long time, as have many of you, and as a result I've collected and still collect a lot of spyderco's and benchmade knives. Spyderco being my goto. I try to get whatever exclusives that come out etc. and like to think I've collected ok.

So since the traditional knife bug hit, my moderns are taking a beating. Anyone else have this problem or even think about it?

I've carried and used knives for about 60 of my 66 years. I don't collect, I accumulate as I try different kinds of knives to see what works best for me.
This leads to an accumulation in which there are more traditionals than moderns.

There are only so many variations on a theme you can try with a single blade knife. That limits how many I need to buy before I'm satisfied that I've sampled what's available. But with Traditionals, there are myriads more variations available. One blade, two, three, and even four. Combinations of blade types. Combinations of various blades with various handle shapes.
Stands to reason and it does not concern me.

 

[hornetguy]

I own both. I do see the benefit of one-hand opening at times, but I can also make do without it. I've sort of settled on two moderns to carry, if I see the need. Both Spydercos... I have a Delica, and a Centofante, both in VG-10. I think Spyderco has the heat treating of VG-10 figured out. Both of them take, and hold an edge very nicely. I also have a Kershaw Leek, with the 154 steel and CF scales.
That being said, I haven't carried any of those three in months. I've migrated almost all the way to traditionals. A stockman or a jack of some kind will do pretty much 95% of anything I need to do. I reserved 5% for the occasional garage/yard/hunting use of a medium sized fixed blade.

 

[kamagong]

I'm glad to have the choice. Traditional? Modern? I'll take some of each please.

Marketing? Learn to use your head and decide for yourself what you do and don't need or want.

As to the single blades of modern knives, I've never felt underknifed because I didn't have a selection of blades in my pocketknife. A sharp blade, any blade, is better than nothing, which is what most of the benighted souls out there are carrying. Besides, plenty of traditional blades have only a single blade. The Opinel, resolza, the sodbuster -- all these knives have a single, lonely blade. If you denounce modern knives for having only a single blade, then you should do the same for these designs.

 

[JohnDF]

But with Traditionals, there are myriads more variations available. One blade, two, three, and even four. Combinations of blade types. Combinations of various blades with various handle shapes.

This is the single biggest reason that I spend way too much money on knives.
I almost exclusively carry a Lambsfoot, but it doesn't keep me from buying other knives to test out.

 

[kamagong]

This is the single biggest reason that I spend way too much money on knives.
I almost exclusively carry a Lambsfoot, but it doesn't keep me from buying other knives to test out.

Knives are essential. If not for them, I'd get socks or ties for my birthday.

 

[gaj999]

As to the single blades of modern knives, I've never felt underknifed because I didn't have a selection of blades in my pocketknife. A sharp blade, any blade, is better than nothing, which is what most of the benighted souls out there are carrying.

True, but I enjoy having a blade well-suited to my task rather than making do with one that isn't. The sheepsfoot on the Churchill for breaking down boxes instead of the latest greatest mall-ninja folder featuring freakishly thick stock because, well, car doors. (Not fashion, real men are immune to fashion, so car doors. )

Besides, plenty of traditional blades have only a single blade. The Opinel, resolza, the sodbuster -- all these knives have a single, lonely blade. If you denounce modern knives for having only a single blade, then you should do the same for these designs.

I don't denounce them, I just don't like them as much and I think I own only one single-blade traditional, an EZ-open that I probably wouldn't buy today. There are still plenty of knives that interest me.

 

[gaj999]

... they can come at a cost, such as being too brittle and easy to chip or harder to sharpen because of the increased edge retention...

Harder to sharpen for sure. Not so much the other stuff.

 

[JohnDF]

Knives are essential. If not for them, I'd get socks or ties for my birthday.

Lol... So true.

 

[Shurke]

I've got one modern, for the sole reason that I prefer a frame lock to the more traditional Buck style lock.

But with the way I use knives, I rarely feel the need for a lock. Small slip joints just suit me better. And in terms of aesthetics, nothing beats the classic svelte lines of a swell center or serpentine pattern. Not to mention the myriad lovely cover options on traditionals. Chances are my modern will remain in a minority of one, while I'll keep accumulating traditionals.

 

[tiguy7]

View attachment 1201932 I have had a knife in my pocket since age six. The early ones had hollow (stamped) handles, and they rusted. Then I discovered solid bolsters and handle slabs, but they still rusted. Next came stainless blades, which resisted rust, but were harder to sharpen. This early stainless didn’t really hold an edge all that well.
Then Ted Dowell and Bob Loveless started experimenting with D-2 and 154-CM respectively. These materials showed up later in factory knives. The march of new features and materials continued. Pocket clips, thumb studs, powdered metals, Titanium handles, ceramic blades, Carbon fiber, etc.
Now I can get a light weight skeletonized Ti knife with a super steel blade, ball bearing pivot, open back, one hand operation, etc. in all different sizes and styles. Some of my traditionals have modern features like M-390 blades and Ti bolsters and liners. My usage leans toward the non-traditional stuff.
If I could afford a knife like this, I might utilize a traditional more often.

 

[GABaus]

Mate, i thought we over here in Australia had it tough. I have the large stockman, in amber bone, other wise identical to yours, it cost me $80 Aus. This equates to roughly 40 pound UK. Now i know the dealer over here, buys at wholesale and would have special purchase deals, but still, a big difference. I have bought several knives from the UK, sheffield made, and they appear to me to be quiet reasonable compared to what you pay. One i bought, which came in a presentation box with a letter of authenticity, it has historically significant scales, it cost me 68 UK pound + 8 pound postage, this equates to $152 Aus. I thought this was expensive, but compared to what you pay, i will have to stop complaining. But i think we all realize no matter where you live, being interested in knives is not cheap, but the US to my way of thinking have a lot more retailers and do not have to pay as much as you and i.

The conversion from Australian dollars to US dollars puts $80 AUS at roughly $50-60 USD which is pretty close to what Case knives can cost in the US.

 

[Deadman 300]

View attachment 1201932 I have had a knife in my pocket since age six. The early ones had hollow (stamped) handles, and they rusted. Then I discovered solid bolsters and handle slabs, but they still rusted. Next came stainless blades, which resisted rust, but were harder to sharpen. This early stainless didn’t really hold an edge all that well.
Then Ted Dowell and Bob Loveless started experimenting with D-2 and 154-CM respectively. These materials showed up later in factory knives. The march of new features and materials continued. Pocket clips, thumb studs, powdered metals, Titanium handles, ceramic blades, Carbon fiber, etc.
Now I can get a light weight skeletonized Ti knife with a super steel blade, ball bearing pivot, open back, one hand operation, etc. in all different sizes and styles. Some of my traditionals have modern features like M-390 blades and Ti bolsters and liners. My usage leans toward the non-traditional stuff.
If I could afford a knife like this, I might utilize a traditional more often.

I love M390. The performance is phenomenal. D2? I have an old benchmade in D2 that I chipped one of the serrated teeth on, just cutting cardboard. That's what I get for buying a serrated blade I guess.

I do appreciate the traditional's and think they're fun to collect. When I say collect I guess I don't really collect knives but I tend towards exclusives or harder to find models more often than not. But I guess that's why we have our users and beaters and M390

 

[Deadman 300]

I did the modern thing, Gerber and Kershaw was my favorite CRKT as well. I liked the Kershaw blur quite a bit even if the last 1/16-1/8 od the point ALWAYS snapped off, just got good at re-profiling tips . Ken Onion designed some of the most ergonomic moderns. But the vast majority are to thick of blade to cut efficient, and I wonder sometimes if the designer has ever seen a human hand I've never really seen the need for super steels. I know how to sharpen,to some it might factor in.YouTube is rife with guys who have a particular knife and love it, but as soon as its offered in the latest super steel at 3 times the cost will tell you how much you gotta have the new one, and the old super steel is junk. Never mind it was over priced by 300% to begin with. Dont get me wrong I believe in paying for quality, but not for fashion. But I also like Ford trucks, I believe a 4x4 Ford is more durable than a 4x4 Chevy. I like the looks of them more, but I guarantee that there's someone resding this that disagrees 100%. And thats ok Ford and Chevy both sell trucks every day. I like all of them if they're made before 1987, old trucks and Jeeps are cool Nothing wrong with liking moderns, I held onto a few, won a couple in the Blade Forums year of give aways YouTube live stream. But I now find traditionals more interesting, I like history so that aspect plays a big part for me. I find them more aesthetically pleasing,and for me better at actually cutting things. As for one handed opening, switchblade knives were quite popular up until the 50's when some asinine feel good laws were passed banning carrying themalmost everywhere. Also this pattern came into being

Kind of like the crotch rocket vs' the harley.

 

[Mayonardo]

What most people don't realize, and this includes knife nuts, the whole modern knife thing is an artificially created phenomenon to stimulate market sales and continued sales. It has very very little to do with giving the end consumer a "better" knife, but to create a continuing market driven by the "next step up that you absolutely have to have."

The so called conveniences they sell don't really mean much in the real world.

I didn’t realize that I am a victim of insidious mind control by unscrupulous marketeers who are mysteriously forcing me to buy things that don’t mean much in the “real” world.

Remember: new stuff bad, old stuff good.