Traits of a successful knife maker. My observations.

Wait a moment ! You give suggestion here how knife maker should run their business , advice for how to succeed as a knife maker right ? What I do wrong ? Is giving advice from me how I think should business will be run wrong ? Or because I do not agree with your advice I m doing something wrong?
Never mind .............I m out , sorry for that I take participation in your thread .Mods can delete my post here .I apologize !
 
Back on topic. As I mentioned in the initial post, and since Robert gave me permission, Look at these pieces

You can see that even across knives of different uses, styles and i assume price ranges, there is a distinct style. No hard angular corners or facets, the contrasting liner between the bolster material and the main handle, the two vertical pins in the bolster. Nothing about the style is inherently different from another maker, but the continuity across different pieces lends them a specific style that in my opinion makes these knives easily identifiable, and if you have one you would seem more likely to get another of a similar style.


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Good read Ben. On a side note, I have reached out to Ben for advice on wood I have been processing in the past. Nothing in it for him, and I have never bought anything from him before. Regardless, he has pointed me in the right direction. I am currently stocked up and have good sources for domestic woods ( my best friend runs a mill, and sets things aside if they are interesting). If I ever need to buy anything that Ben carries, he will be my go to first and foremost. See, that's how business should work. Of course you give repeat customers a heads up. If they go to you first, why wouldn't you, as a business person return the favor. It's not like he doesn't have crazy beautiful stuff on his (public) site. ( Good lord I wish I had a good reason to buy a block of that Ipe burl) . Hatas gonna hate!
 
Greenberg Woods said:
Good point. But in that case, do you think it would be a good idea to quote a higher price for handle material and if a cheaper block is found, refund or discount the savings?
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No. The 20$ difference is only 1 to 2% of the total price of the knife.
Same goes for the steel. I buy the same steel for between 8 and 15 € per kg. Depends on the deal I can get.
I give a fixed price in advance and will not change that.
Some knives just flow out under your hands. Others will fight you all the way till done. A customers should not be affected by that.
I hope that makes sense.
 
This is a great read with some astute observations. The main issue I have is - how are you measuring success? It seem like you are using social media hype as the metric?
 
erik markman said:
No. The 20$ difference is only 1 to 2% of the total price of the knife.
Same goes for the steel. I buy the same steel for between 8 and 15 € per kg. Depends on the deal I can get.
I give a fixed price in advance and will not change that.
Some knives just flow out under your hands. Others will fight you all the way till done. A customers should not be affected by that.
I hope that makes sense.
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Yep. Price only changes if customer causes them to. Change requests while in process for example. Change from copper to ns corbies? Ok np. Change the blade profile or handle material after things are cut? That'll cost.
 
kuraki said:
Yep. Price only changes if customer causes them to. Change requests while in process for example. Change from copper to ns corbies? Ok np. Change the blade profile or handle material after things are cut? That'll cost.
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A long time ago, when I was still in school I got a machine shop to price a job for me. Basically drilling large holes. Bigger than my meager equipment at the time was capable of. When I asked about price he replied " don't know yet, depends on how many bits I break and stuff" ... Even my soft 17-18 year old brain knew that was wrong. I'm not paying for a bit you break
 
P.Brewster said:
This is a great read with some astute observations. The main issue I have is - how are you measuring success? It seem like you are using social media hype as the metric?
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that's a good point, what is the measurement of success? There might be some common ground but the answers will vary.
Ben isn't wrong on his points, some of them might even be considered common sense, but sometimes these things aren't that obvious to all.

When I was doing this part time, the measurement of success was for it to be a self funding hobby and an opportunity to learn and gain skills.

Going full-time, to start I would say the measurement of success would be to sell every knife I make at that price that I need to make a decent living. Then I would need to gain efficiency in a way that allowed me to produce more.

I guess Ben's points can be considered a means to that end.

Lastly I would add perseverance to to the list of traits ( I got that from Devin T) :-)

regards
 
Good read and I can agree also with most of it. I've owned construction businesses, mechanic businesses and now starting out in the knife making business. My first job out of A school in the Navy was to P&E a large K Span communications building in Souda Bay Crete. Basically a complete breakdown of every material, tool, consumable, piece of equipment, fuel, personnel, estimated waste, time frame schedule, labor............. I bring that thought process into any type of job no matter what it is when I bid it. It has served me well throughout the last 20+ years of owning and running my own businesses.

In the mechanics business most of pricing a job is straight forward as their are labor guides you can reference for about every vehicle there is and the job. You just need to apply your labor rate. This is how really good mechanics can make a lot of money by getting the job done faster.

In construction you have a lot of the same thing going on except it usually gauged in square footage, linear footage, cubic yardage.... Depending on your location there is usually a standard average price range for every type of work. Sure there are some custom things to take into consideration but that's not the point i'm trying to make.

One could basically say the same thing in knife making. You have your price of materials, your price of consumables, how long is it going to take you to shape those materials, assemble them and finish them, and don't forget to include all the the things it's going to cost. Shipping is part of the materials and consumables, electricity, whats it cost for where the work is being performed..... Every little details of what it actually costs to make the knife, then when you have an estimated amount of time it will take to perform all of these, what is your time worth and is the quality of the product you turn out reflect that. With so many facets of knife making this is where an experienced knife maker will have an easier time dictating what price will be charged.

Now I have had both business models mentioned in this thread. One price for everyone and one where friends and frequent customers get a slightly better deal. I've also had customers I charge extra to just hoping they'll go somewhere else so I don't have to deal with them, but if they agree to pay it it makes up for having to deal with them.

I can def agree with part one, finding your style. I'm still trying to figure that part out. I'm just having fun making different style knives right now trying to push myself into different styles to see what I like and what I don't like to make.

On point 2 I can somewhat agree with. I've spent a lot of money in the last 2 years on tools because I realized very quickly if I was ever going to make a dime on a knife I had to be able to make it in somewhat of a timely manner. I wasn't willing to drop what I valued my time as in order to sell a knife for a reasonable price and what I was able to turn out didn't reflect the price. It was too hard and time consuming and the product wasn't worth it. What I did do though was choose what I was going to be able to offer with the tools I acquired and my current abilities. When I take an order from a customer I stick within what I know I can turn out and turn out good. When I am experimenting with something new I don't do it on a commissioned blade.

Point 3 is really a no-brainer. Repeat customers are the best in any form of business as long as it's not repeat because you jacked something up.

Point 4 I can also agree with. It's always nice when you can make yourself look good by getting a job done ahead of time and under budget.

Point 5 I go either way. If I have to buy customer specific items at the point I am now, I have them put a deposit down. I say I learned this the hard way purchasing materials for a person who wanted a knife and then backed out after I purchased the materials. If I make a knife with materials I have on hand I don't. I chose those materials i know i can use them for something else I want to make.

One of the biggest things I don't agree with is making a post about a successful knife making business, stating how you run your own business outside of knife making in the post and then welcoming people comments and advice and asking what their thoughts are on important traits and then jumping down their throats when they give them. The door was left wide open on that. If your asking for comments that concern ONLY knife making maybe it's best you leave the other part out that refers to your personal wood business. Not to try to side rail here at the end of my comment, but I think that makes for better business no matter what type it is even if it's just a discussion about it. The high road thing to do would be to scroll on by and not add fuel to the fire and not show that it got under your skin and let the fire go out all it's own. Not that my opinion is worth anything here, and I'm not trying to add fuel to a fire, but I took the thread serious up until that point. The tread started off , "With the recent influx of members and people with knife maker level here" how do you think they are going to see that reaction as good for business or someone trying to offer insight into what makes a successful knife maker or any business owner for the matter?
 
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P.Brewster said:
This is a great read with some astute observations. The main issue I have is - how are you measuring success? It seem like you are using social media hype as the metric?
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I guess I would say a flow of customers. As for social media, any two bit with a belt grinder, some neon resin and a flaming skull can get a social media following.

But I think in the times we live in, it is certainly important. With the exception of a few very talented makers, most succesful knife makers have some sort of social media following. Its simply the best way for a lot of people to know who you are, what you sell and do become interested in it.

I dont think there are many succesful makers these days with no website and only magazine ads and a phone number listed. There may be some, but i doubt there are many.
 
Greenberg Woods said:
That is a fair point. I've been a little on edge with the accusations of advertising and so tried to avoid as much direct content of my business as possible.

I do however feel that the comment that started this, which can be summed up as "Well now I know to never buy from you" Is less a discussion of how to be successful than it was a purposefully inflammatory comment and rather off topic.
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I will stay off topic this last comment, but I sincerely think you read his comment wrong. I would have to let him clarify, but I took his comment as if he were to purchase from you having never done so before he would not have access to purchase your most 'stellar blocks' of wood because they are reserved and or offered to your 'better' customers before anyone else would ever see them.. . I read it as he felt he had to do a lot of business with you to have access to buy the "good stuff". That's how I interpreted both of your comments together. You're from Cali, I'm from South Carolina and he is from Macedonia. I suspect we all can read the same thing and view them as completely different views. Anyway just hate to see things turn south when I don't think that was either of your intentions. I feel you both misunderstood each other.
 
KnuckleDownKnives said:
I will stay off topic this last comment, but I sincerely think you read his comment wrong. I would have to let him clarify, but I took his comment as if he were to purchase from you having never done so before he would not have access to purchase your most 'stellar blocks' of wood because they are reserved and or offered to your 'better' customers before anyone else would ever see them.. . I read it as he felt he had to do a lot of business with you to have access to buy the "good stuff". That's how I interpreted both of your comments together. You're from Cali, I'm from South Carolina and he is from Macedonia. I suspect we all can read the same thing and view them as completely different views. Anyway just hate to see things turn south when I don't think that was either of your intentions. I feel you both misunderstood each other.
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Agreed. I probably could have and should have worded that better.

I do feel that a comment like that was should not have been made here.
 
Hi Ben!
I live in Argentina, our economy is not as strong as the USA, so customers may want a knife and four months later (my wait time currently) don't have the money or spent it in something/somewhere else.

I've been a full time knifemaker for the last three years and its my policy to ask for 50% in advance (and then the price is frozen), even for repeat customers. That provides a steady flow that allows me to buy steel if there is a spike in sales or other consumables we all use.

I have developed a style, way different than other knifemakers, not better, different.

Also I try hard to keep my promises, I can slip a week of the deadline, but usually I deliver before it.
I was an entrepreneur all my life, so I know one to one sales, I tell all my friends that I enjoy selling and making the knives the same amount.

And this is my humble advise, learn sales, practice makes you better, you need to lose hundreds of sales to learn, but at the end there is the big payoff. Read about selling, everything related too. Skip netflix and read more, and practice more!
I sell thru my webpage (www.peu.net) which I made to be an easy to use gallery with tons of photos and almost nothing more.
Also I sell thru the big3 of social networks (check my signature)
I respond to every single price request, even if the prospective customer only post something like $? in one of my social networks posts.
Post every day, if you do something else (I make naturally leavened bread every friday) post about it too, but your focus should be knifemaking, if not every day, every other day, but you need to be regular and constant, so you are always present on your customers and customers to be minds. If you make 5 knives, post them thru the week or once the previous one is sold, not all at once, even if all of them are available.

Constantly think about how to improve your methods, how to make your belt last longer and at the same time how to throw them away faster, in a nutshell, how to work more efficiently.

Pablo
 
PEU said:
Hi Ben!
I live in Argentina, our economy is not as strong as the USA, so customers may want a knife and four months later (my wait time currently) don't have the money or spent it in something/somewhere else.

I've been a full time knifemaker for the last three years and its my policy to ask for 50% in advance (and then the price is frozen), even for repeat customers. That provides a steady flow that allows me to buy steel if there is a spike in sales or other consumables we all use.

I have developed a style, way different than other knifemakers, not better, different.

Also I try hard to keep my promises, I can slip a week of the deadline, but usually I deliver before it.
I was an entrepreneur all my life, so I know one to one sales, I tell all my friends that I enjoy selling and making the knives the same amount.

And this is my humble advise, learn sales, practice makes you better, you need to lose hundreds of sales to learn, but at the end there is the big payoff. Read about selling, everything related too. Skip netflix and read more, and practice more!
I sell thru my webpage (www.peu.net) which I made to be an easy to use gallery with tons of photos and almost nothing more.
Also I sell thru the big3 of social networks (check my signature)
I respond to every single price request, even if the prospective customer only post something like $? in one of my social networks posts.
Post every day, if you do something else (I make naturally leavened bread every friday) post about it too, but your focus should be knifemaking, if not every day, every other day, but you need to be regular and constant, so you are always present on your customers and customers to be minds. If you make 5 knives, post them thru the week or once the previous one is sold, not all at once, even if all of them are available.

Constantly think about how to improve your methods, how to make your belt last longer and at the same time how to throw them away faster, in a nutshell, how to work more efficiently.

Pablo
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Hey Pablo! Yes, I have seen your pieces. You should send me an email or a Instagram message. I think I have some cool options for you.
 
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