Traveling to Europe

I don't know about Paris, but if you were to walk around Vienna with a PM2 nothing is going to happen to you, because the PM2 is legal in Vienna.

Except in two places in the city where law enforcement executed a "you're not allowed to carry anything that could hurt another person" zone.

Another thing is Europe is not all the same. Saying "If you really want to carry a knife in Europe on your person, a small SAK is really the only safe choice" is wrong.

In Denmark ,you are not allowed to EDC any kind of knife.

Actually, the best advice is to not carry any knife at all. If you really want to EDC anything, I would recommend a SAK or similar multitool. That advice stands, and I think it is sound.

Personally, I would carry nothing. But if I did, a small SAK would be the safest choice. You say this is wrong. So what is right? Carrying no knife at all? Yes, that would be correct in this context. But if you were to carry any knife on you, what would be better than a small SAK in terms of what we are talking about?

As for carrying a PM2 in Vienna, or anywhere else in Europe for that matter, good luck. Like I said, you could probably get away with it 90% of the time if you are a normal law abiding person. But it would still be unwise to carry something like that there.
 
I never go anywhere outside the US without a kitchen knife of some type in my luggage. The Mora would probably fulfill the same function. The thing is the knife never leaves my hotel room. Why would I want to walk around city streets here or outside the US with a sheath knife on anyway? There is always a Swiss Army in my pocket not because I think they are the most legal but because they are the most useful when traveling. Don't give the cops a reason to take a second look at you and you won't have any problems. That means don't get loud and drunk then demand your rights as an American! Anyone that has traveled much as met that person.
 
Actually, the best advice is to not carry any knife at all. If you really want to EDC anything, I would recommend a SAK or similar multitool. That advice stands, and I think it is sound.

Personally, I would carry nothing. But if I did, a small SAK would be the safest choice. You say this is wrong. So what is right? Carrying no knife at all? Yes, that would be correct in this context. But if you were to carry any knife on you, what would be better than a small SAK in terms of what we are talking about?

As for carrying a PM2 in Vienna, or anywhere else in Europe for that matter, good luck. Like I said, you could probably get away with it 90% of the time if you are a normal law abiding person. But it would still be unwise to carry something like that there.
Eh. Your opinion.

I think people spend a lot of time worrying about remote possibilities that never occur. Most of us spend our entire lives without being searched by, detained by, or hassled by a LEO.
 
Just out of curiosity, why would a sub 12 cm fixed blade get you into trouble? Has the law changed? Also, why would you even be accosted?
Sounds like a big mouth BS artist to me. What pisses me off about crap like that is that the German hunting and shooting community - and there is a large one - is incredibly responsible and law abiding. There are very few incidents involving legal firearms owners and legal firearms in the entire country. You just don’t find legal gun owners walking around carrying firearms, which is a serious violation of the law, because they know it’s illegal and stupid and even in Bavaria would get you arrested, cause all your firearms to be confiscated and all firearms permits to be revoked. Why do it? But any misuse of firearms usually gets press coverage and provides fodder for those who seek to further restrict legal gun ownership. That’s why some guy spouting crap like that pisses me off.

Regarding the original question: only carry a small SAK in Europe, which is all you need, most likely the corkscrew and the scissors. A fixed blade knife on your person in any German City will get you seriously in trouble if found by the police.
 
I'll just add my 2 cents as a Dutch citizen, as we're close to Germany and France and have open borders.

You'll be fine here with anything from a delica to a pm2 really. Though as a visitor I'd advice to go smaller then bigger. Also, cops here are pretty chill and use use more discretion then what I'm led to believe is the standard in the states. All locking blades with the exception of autos, balisong and certain fixed blades are freely sold here.

I thought Germany was more relaxed in their knife laws then this thread led me to believe.

Also, don't even bother with a knife in the UK. They've gone mental there.
 
I'm sorry, but this is poor advice. You are basically saying that relying on luck and "discreteness" will keep you safe. I have a lot of European colleagues, and virtually none of them carry a knife for fear of the legal consequences. Yes, chances are good that if I walk around Vienna or Paris with a PM2 in my pocket, nothing will happen if I don't get myself into any troubling situation. Does that mean that is smart? Obviously, no. If you really want to carry a knife in Europe on your person, a small SAK is really the only safe choice. I wouldn't even carry a Delica or any similar knife in Europe. It's just not worth the risk.

Yet for well over a decade I carried an AFO around Europe, when I got my Sebenza I carried that. The end state is just because there is a law doesn't mean it's enforced and if it is its not necessarily enforced evenly.
 
Just out of curiosity, why would a sub 12 cm fixed blade get you into trouble? Has the law changed? Also, why would you even be accosted?

It wouldn't since they're legal to carry..

It's funny I can carry legally carry my Nyala but not my Sebenza and in reality neither are going to raise an eyebrow from anyone including cops
 
The cupel;e fo German nationals that I talked to back in like 2012-13 said that if you don't look like you are worthy of being hassled, you wont be. That seemed to be how things were in France. Things don't seem to be as bad in a lot of other places compared to say London or New York where messing with folks is either a holy mission or some kind of revenue generating scheme.
It wouldn't since they're legal to carry..

It's funny I can carry legally carry my Nyala but not my Sebenza and in reality neither are going to raise an eyebrow from anyone including cops
 
It wouldn't since they're legal to carry..

It's funny I can carry legally carry my Nyala but not my Sebenza and in reality neither are going to raise an eyebrow from anyone including cops
I'm sorry I must have missed something in this thread, on what basis can't you legally carry the sebenza? My understanding was that in Germany folders with a blade length under 12cm were legal? I drive through Germany multiple times per month for work and I assumed I could carry a seb or 940 without issue, if I recall the law correctly. A quick Google search in Dutch yielded no other results then that 12cm blade law. Feel free to educate me!

I'm feeling that there is a disconnect from reality towards our knife laws and the reality of carrying. Most common in this thread is the generalisation of Europe as a whole. What is this Europe people are talking about? Each country has its own set of laws and circumstances and there is no real unified 'Europe' to speak of when it comes to legality in carrying.

Do your research and obey the laws of the countries you want to visit, and you'll be fine. Cops aren't out to get you like people are suggesting here now and then. I've seen Turkey and the UK come by in argument here but those countries are hardly if even representable (spelling? Meh you guys know what I mean haha) for most decent eu countries.
 
NOT folders. Only fixed blade "hunting knives" are covered by the 12cm rule. Weird exception like the one for sub 4 inch fixed blades carried concealed in NYC. The recent law made it illegal to CARRY a knife that can be opened with one hand AND locks. So no need for a UKPK just a folder that had the good old fashioned nail nick.
I'm sorry I must have missed something in this thread, on what basis can't you legally carry the sebenza? My understanding was that in Germany folders with a blade length under 12cm were legal? I drive through Germany multiple times per month for work and I assumed I could carry a seb or 940 without issue, if I recall the law correctly. A quick Google search in Dutch yielded no other results then that 12cm blade law. Feel free to educate me!

I'm feeling that there is a disconnect from reality towards our knife laws and the reality of carrying. Most common in this thread is the generalisation of Europe as a whole. What is this Europe people are talking about? Each country has its own set of laws and circumstances and there is no real unified 'Europe' to speak of when it comes to legality in carrying.

Do your research and obey the laws of the countries you want to visit, and you'll be fine. Cops aren't out to get you like people are suggesting here now and then. I've seen Turkey and the UK come by in argument here but those countries are hardly if even representable (spelling? Meh you guys know what I mean haha) for most decent eu countries.
 
Th
NOT folders. Only fixed blade "hunting knives" are covered by the 12cm rule. Weird exception like the one for sub 4 inch fixed blades carried concealed in NYC. The recent law made it illegal to CARRY a knife that can be opened with one hand AND locks. So no need for a UKPK just a folder that had the good old fashioned nail nick.
Thank you! I've not heard about that before and I've been driving up and down from the Netherlands to Germany and back for 12y due to work and family living there. When did locking folders get the proverbial axe in Germany? I've been stopped in traffic (quite) a few times and never had a cop commented on a clip indicating the carrying of a folder protruding from my pants. It's not actively policed I reckon then? Gonna read up on the laws provided I can find a good recent source.
 
I'll just add my 2 cents as a Dutch citizen, as we're close to Germany and France and have open borders.

You'll be fine here with anything from a delica to a pm2 really. Though as a visitor I'd advice to go smaller then bigger. Also, cops here are pretty chill and use use more discretion then what I'm led to believe is the standard in the states. All locking blades with the exception of autos, balisong and certain fixed blades are freely sold here.

I thought Germany was more relaxed in their knife laws then this thread led me to believe.

Also, don't even bother with a knife in the UK. They've gone mental there.

I'm sorry I must have missed something in this thread, on what basis can't you legally carry the sebenza? My understanding was that in Germany folders with a blade length under 12cm were legal? I drive through Germany multiple times per month for work and I assumed I could carry a seb or 940 without issue, if I recall the law correctly. A quick Google search in Dutch yielded no other results then that 12cm blade law. Feel free to educate me!

I'm feeling that there is a disconnect from reality towards our knife laws and the reality of carrying. Most common in this thread is the generalisation of Europe as a whole. What is this Europe people are talking about? Each country has its own set of laws and circumstances and there is no real unified 'Europe' to speak of when it comes to legality in carrying.

Do your research and obey the laws of the countries you want to visit, and you'll be fine. Cops aren't out to get you like people are suggesting here now and then. I've seen Turkey and the UK come by in argument here but those countries are hardly if even representable (spelling? Meh you guys know what I mean haha) for most decent eu countries.

Twice now you have had a go at the UK'S knife laws . Once saying the UK as gone mad and the next saying the UK isn't a decent EU country . Though I'm not sure what this has to do with this these as the op isn't going to the UK . No is he going to the Netherlands for that matter . And as for looking up your knife laws they are more restrictive than the UK's . Please feel free to enlighten me .
 
Maybe like 10 years ago? I don't remember exactly when. Quite change in attitude from the old days of the 1980's. Germany was probably the source for half of the "illegal switchblades" that kids brought back from vacation, the army, etc. I brought back a little relatively inexpensive stag handled lever locker back on the QE 2 in 1985. :D One thing that I did find is that the law also outlawed automatics with blades over 8.5 cm in addition to the odd length to width ratio and also banned OTF knives, even ones with no springing any double edge automatic. Balisongs are also banned along with what they call "fist knives" and we call push daggers. Oddly enough, so are wrist rocket type slingshots and cattle prods that done have some kind of "non-cruelty" certification.
Th

Thank you! I've not heard about that before and I've been driving up and down from the Netherlands to Germany and back for 12y due to work and family living there. When did locking folders get the proverbial axe in Germany? I've been stopped in traffic (quite) a few times and never had a cop commented on a clip indicating the carrying of a folder protruding from my pants. It's not actively policed I reckon then? Gonna read up on the laws provided I can find a good recent source.
 
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Twice now you have had a go at the UK'S knife laws . Once saying the UK as gone mad and the next saying the UK isn't a decent EU country . Though I'm not sure what this has to do with this these as the op isn't going to the UK . No is he going to the Netherlands for that matter . And as for looking up your knife laws they are more restrictive than the UK's . Please feel free to enlighten me .
You know what you're right, my current perspective is based on specific information in the form of newsitems, personal tellings of people who deemed themselves wronged and the likes, but I've yet to delve into the exact laws in this area but I will soon hereafter. Working a night shift now so I'm a tad tired to get into a long debate but let's not get off on the wrong foot here.
I merely am a big advocate of peoples freedom in carrying a tool, and that most definitely includes you/me/everybody so when I say something detrimenting about the UK I merely mean on that particular part of the UK alone. Sorry my English is getting worse as the night gets longer. My perception is that UK citizens who carry knives were getting the short end, and that's something I sympathise with greatly. I am then thinking of reports of casesof people being charged with possession of a weapon when this is not even remotely the case.

As for our laws in the meantime, I quickly found a good piece from our leading supplier summarising our laws pretty well. I'll post it here for reference should it be of help to anybody in this thread now or in the future:
Dutch knife laws 2019:
https://translate.googleusercontent...700253&usg=ALkJrhhrwWeoa6ZfuSQfz4GxMJXidixQYQ
French knife laws:
https://translate.googleusercontent...700253&usg=ALkJrhgvirQ0mkkkNDe1Sti4DfVtL1m-gQ

German knife laws:
https://translate.googleusercontent...700253&usg=ALkJrhiIxQCrpLRvyYhPWkRUy9h2eowP1w
If you run it through Google translate it'll surely be of help.

I'll get back to you should you want to pursue this further as long as we can agree to be friendly about it. I'm sorry I led you to misinterpret my intentions and make you feel attacked. Bound for time to type and English being my second/third language I see why, that's on me.

Edit: a quick search landed me this result as forbidden to carry:
Lock knives
Lock knives are not classed as folding knives and are illegal to carry in public without good reason. Lock knives

With as possible consequence:
The maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife is 4 years in prison and an unlimited fine. You’ll get a prison sentence if you’re convicted of carrying a knife more than once.
Source: https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

I mean, if this is truly the case this strikes me as oppressive and if truly policed strictly unjust even. I think it sets a bad precedent.

Here everything except listed in quotes below is alright to carry.
Category 1 weapons - completely prohibited
Weapons in this category are, without exemption, completely prohibited: both their possession and trade in them. This category includes:

Stilettos (jumpers): blades with lateral protruding blades
Falling knives: blades with protruding blades (with or without spring)
Butterfly knives: knives with a handle consisting of two parts, which can be folded around the blade (see note below)
Foldable blades with a total, extended length above 28 cm
Foldable blades, the blade of which has more than one cutting edge
Throwing stars
Knives * and ballistic knives
White weapons that are externally similar to an object other than a weapon
Arrows and arrowheads, intended to be fired by means of a bow, which are provided with cutting parts with the apparent intention of causing serious injury.
* Feeling knives: also called palm knives or fist knives. This is a knife with the blade perpendicular to the handle. The handle is held in the palm of the hand and the blade protrudes through the fingers.

Until 2012 there were a number of exceptions to these rules when it came to stilettos, jump knives and butterfly knives, including when the blade was shorter than 9 cm, for example. However, these exceptions no longer exist.

Category 4 weapons - possession is not permitted, in public wear
Knives in this category may be owned or traded. However, these weapons may not be worn or be publicly available. That is, they must be properly packaged during transport in such a way that they cannot be used for immediate use.

From our range fall under Category 4:

White weapons (knives) of which the blade has more than one cutting edge, insofar as they do not fall under Category 1.
Explanation:
* A folding knife whose blade has more than one cutting edge falls under Category 1 - and is therefore completely prohibited. Note: A saw tooth is considered as a cutting edge!
* A knife with fixed blade and more than one cutting edge (for example saw tooth in the back) falls under Category 4.
Degens, swords, sabers and bayonets.
Objects which, by reason of their nature or circumstances under which they are encountered, can reasonably be assumed to be intended for no other purpose than to cause or threaten injury to persons - and which do not fall under one of the other three categories.
NB: It is very important that you always transport such a weapon well packaged.
This last point is an extremely important point to inculcate when you wear an EDC knife. Is it sensible and justifiable to have a knife at hand in the current situation? If you have any doubts about this, your question is actually answered: it is better to put it away so that you do not have it immediately.
I'm against any banning of tools even balisongs or auto's here, or anywhere else. Every ban sets a precedent which makes it easier to tighten laws even further. Fortunately all reasonable carry is still permitted here but you got to wonder whats next sometimes with all this negativity towards knives in general in the media nowadays and the forming stigma towards it.

Edit: added French and German current knife law links, already translated to English for those who benefit from it now or in the future.
 
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Th

Thank you! I've not heard about that before and I've been driving up and down from the Netherlands to Germany and back for 12y due to work and family living there. When did locking folders get the proverbial axe in Germany? I've been stopped in traffic (quite) a few times and never had a cop commented on a clip indicating the carrying of a folder protruding from my pants. It's not actively policed I reckon then? Gonna read up on the laws provided I can find a good recent source.

It is actively policed if you give them a reason to police it. If you get stopped for a general traffic stop you probably don't even have to leave your car. If you argue, get loud and have to get ordered out of the car you better believe you will get in trouble.
Two guys lost thousands in folders about 7-8 years ago when they started arguing in a traffic stop, they were on their way to a meet, cops searched the car found a backpack with locking folders and seized them because the backpack wasn't locked and on a backseat. Legally a folder needs to be inside a locked container, if it's not you need it locked in a backpack and in the trunk outside reach.
As Chris said, a lot rides on common sense, behavior and how you present yourself.
 
Just to clarify on things your picking up of the net and the news . in certain parts of the UK there are impoverished areas were knife crime is getting out of hand . Due to drugs and gang cultures especially with the young . And a big part of it being in London . The police do not have stop and search powers . they can only be stopped and searched if they have been suspected of committing a crime . As for carrying in the UK the law says you can carry as long as you have good reason ( GOOD REASON ) when in a public place ( public place) this means I can go camping / hunting / fishing / sailing / or any other outdoor pursuits with any of my knives . And the only knives that are not legal to own in the UK are flick knives and butterfly knives . But while I am in a public area and with no need to have good reason I can carry a slip goint with up to a 3in blade . But I have no fear about being arrested by the police because it doesn't happen . It would be nice to live in a country were everyone is a law abiding citizen but it's never going to happen any were . And unfortunately laws only affect the law abiding . I feel free to enjoy my hobby in UK . I hope this clarifies a few things for you . :)
 
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Just to clarify on things your picking up of the net and the news . in certain parts of the UK there are impoverished areas were knife crime is getting out of hand . Due to drugs and gang cultures especially with the young . And a big part of it being in London . The police do not have stop and search powers . they can only be stopped and searched if they have been suspected of committing a crime . As for carrying in the UK the law says you can carry as long as you have good reason ( GOOD REASON ) when in a public place ( public place) this means I can go camping / hunting / fishing / sailing / or any other outdoor pursuits with any of my knives . And the only knives that are not legal to own in the UK are flick knives and butterfly knives . But while I am in a public area and with no need to have good reason I can carry a slip goint with up to a 3in blade . But I have no fear about being arrested by the police because it doesn't happen . It would be nice to live in a country were everyone is a law abiding citizen but it's never going to happen any were . And unfortunately laws only affect the law abiding . I feel free to enjoy my hobby in UK . I hope this clarifies is a few things you . :)
Cheers for the reply, definitely some new insights found in your post.
I'm terribly sorry but my shift just ended now. I'm dead tired now but chatting with you guys made a boring nightshift very tolerable! Were all just a bunch of people sharing a same passion so I love it how we can bump heads sometimes but with goodwill be there end on a comradery base!

Im sorry this reply has to be cut short but I'll see you guys later surely in some place here or another! I'm off to home, shower and sleep now! Goodbye and take care :)
 
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