Trends - discussion

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

Moderator
Joined
Dec 27, 1998
Messages
11,659
I believe that current folder trends will in general move towards knives with shorter blade lengths. I think this is the case primarily because of public reaction of larger knives. More and more knife aficianados are coming upon situations daily where they are cautious to take out a knife because of the reaction of people around them. That, combined with increasing knife laws concerning knife carry, I believe will sway the trends in the market.

I see folders falling into the following categories;

1. Small gents folders. Relatively thin and narrow, may or may not have clips. Able to perform small cutting tasks but nothing you could easily cut a rope with. Plenty of eye candy. Blade lengths under 2.5" (64mm). Spyderco's new "Kiwi" would be representative of that group. Many other companies are already making models in the "Gents" group. believe that the "fair" sex will find more appeal in this group.

2. What I call "Big, Little Knives". This category evolves out of the need for a smaller blade length knife that still has the handle purchase and blade strength to handle larger cutting chores. Spyderco's Lil' Temperance, Salsa, and the Navigator pattern (including the Meerkat and Pride). Some also would add the new Jester into this group.

3. Self defense folders. Models selected for the purpose of self defense. These models will more than likely be illegal to carry in most places and will not be shown.

4. Auto & semi autos will continue to sell, but will fall into the first category, providing novelty, like the Ken Onion "Chive" design.

What is your opinion? What do you see in the future and why?

(Posted on both Spyderco forums)

sal
 
Hi Sal,

interesting discussion started. I think You´re mostly right. But I can´t imagine big folders like the Military or my favourite Starmate will no more be important. Small folders, eye candy or not will get more important, thats right. But Big blades always will play a big role.
Perhaps it gets more common to wear two blades, a "political correct" small gents folder to use when sensitive people are around and a big blade for real hard work. I think this would be my way, cause I don´t want to stop carrying my Starmate or sometimes the MT Amphibian only because other people could get scared.

I am sure Spyderco will always supply me with the right tools for all applications, small or big blades.

And I can´t wait to get the SPOT, please don´t let us poor Europeans wait too long :cool:
 
I don't doubt that you are probably correct, Sal, although the same concerns that are driving sizes downward have also fueled an interest in the 5-5.5" mega-folders. I'm sure that will never be a huge market, but it's definitely a niche. My main concern, if you are correct, is that it leaves out my preferred blade, the 3.5-4" utility/defense knife. But, I live in the country, I don't work in an office, and there is really no one for me to offend or scare.

I think Spyderco has most of the bases covered. The one other offering that might be of interest is the small upscale fixed blade in a clipped pocket sheath, a la Don Cowles.

http://www.cowlesknives.com/DC_Mainframe.htm

This is my favorite type of carry.

Jack
 
I really hope this is not the future.I like at least a 3 in blade length.I will not buy a knife for EDC with out a clip.I would like to see some fancier designs in production knifes,something like the Kiwi with a clip.This trend will not happen unless we let it,don't be worried about carrying the large ones,carry the largest your laws permit.The more sheeple see them the more they will become use to them.I firmly belive that we in the US are on a downward spiral to not haveing the right to carry anything.Use a assalt riffle in a crime(outlaw them)use a handgun(more restrickive laws,try to ban them)use a knife(pass size limit laws)use a small knife(ban knives)use a stick and stone...get my point.

:grumpy: :mad: :( :confused:
 
But for people with BIG hands, like me, those smaller gentlmens knives for us are more dangerous!!!The knives, that are the Endura size range is perfect!!!
 
The pattern has been established for some time. If we do not speak up, do not vigorously politically oppose the anti-knife crowd, we'll see the situation erode to the point where ALL knives are banned. The airlines have provided us with a microcosm over the past several years, culminating with the post-9/11 nonsense. There, we ended up facing a hypocritical Cheney who, speaking out one side of his mouth, encouraged airline passengers to fight back against terrorists, while, out of the other side, supported the confiscation of your toe nail clippers as potential weapons.

Getting away from this ludicrous example, I believe the NRA provides an effective model for supporting 2nd amendment rights. (and why aren't knives included under current interpretations of the 2nd amendment? Perhaps some civil lawsuits would be appropriate at this time??)

The only way for our rights (to own and use knives and other edged or pointed tools) to survive is to generate efficacious political opposition to those who would strip us of those rights. Otherwise, those rights will disappear, along with the tools we love and need. Bouncing a few of the more offensive turkeys out of office is the most effective message we can send them.

My EDC knives rotate, most frequently being my PE Millie or my Cuda Maxx. I use them openly and legally and never, NEVER apologise for them. If I get occasional negative comments from sheeple, I use the opportunity to educate them on the uses of such tools and on the 2nd amendment. So far, I'm very pleased with the results.
 
In general, I'm carrying a Delica, which should be inside everybody's "acceptable" meter. But I still carry a plain SAK for use in most public situations. Although I use the SAK much more in public, it's never gotten a single comment. On the other hand, three seperate people have seen my Delica and leapt to the conclusion that it's for killing ninjas. In each case, I was doing something totally mundane with it (pulling a staple out of a jammed stapler, cutting the threads on the pockets of a costume jacket, and showing an interested woman how to use the opening hole). What really chafes me is the fact that the Delica blade is only a teensy bit longer than the SAK blade.
I honestly think that Spyderco starts out at a disadvantage when it comes to "public acceptance". Here's what I personally see in my relatively small, unscientific, 20-35-year-old sample:

The breadth of the blade can be as important to the threat-factor as the length. It makes the blade look beefier and more substantial. The Spyderco hump, while practical, also makes a lot of people see the knife as threatening. Narrower knives, to a point, seem to be less threatening in general. Go figure.
[I'm not talking about blade stock here, but the distance from spine to edge.]

Most people aren't used to seeing single-bladed knives. A SAK is more like a small multitool with a blade. People see a SAK and think MacGyver. People see a one-handed folder and think West Side Story.

The black handles don't help. I'm not saying that alarmist knife haters would all start carrying Sifus if they came in a nice pastel, but maybe an emphasis on blues, greens, tans, and burgundies (y'know, <i>pretty</i> colors ;) ) could help soften up the overall impression. Also, nobody ever finds traditional-style slipjoints frightening. The security guard who stops a Delica may very well let a bigger stockman go. The "hey, grampa used to have one like that!" factor is stronger than you might think.

The "personality" of the blade shape is important. Ever been behind a car at night and thought "why didn't anybody at the factory notice that those taillights look like a bad anime Kabuki robot?" The same applies to knives. When the blade profile looks like some kind of nightmare vision out of the Smithsonian's dinosaur collection, people may tend to react badly. ;)

Finally, serrations are big on the ol' threat scale. People see teeth and panic. And it really doesn't help the prehistoric-bird-of-prey factor, either. ;) Now, I'm biased here, because I loathe serrations, but it seems that they're a big big part of swinging the balance from "hey, cool, can I use that for a second?" to "please don't eat my face".

...

So I guess that, for me, the best PC knife would be just under three inches, plainedge, with a narrow full-flat-ground blade (think of the proportions of the large Centofante, with knurling on the spine for grip and looks), with a traditional looking handle (the Kiwi and anniversary knives look like a pretty good example of what I'm talking about). And as un-PC as it may be sometimes, a pocket clip is really essential. Give it either a classy "decorative" clip, or a nondescript wire clip that could be mistaken for a beeper clip in-pocket.

For a lower price point, blue or burgundy FRN with a wire clip.

And if you wanted to make it <i>perfect</i>, add a pair of scissors and your "SAL" logo on the blade. To me, anyway, a pair of scissors on a lockback pocket knife looks insanely practical for urban carry, and screams "gentleman's knife! Not a weapon!". And the SAL logo just looks classy.

...

So that's my perfect urban carry knife. As PC as possible without sacrificing utility.
I can't say whether anybody <i>else</i> would share my infatuation, but if Spyderco made this knife, I'd buy it. Even at the high price point I'm sure it'd command, I'd find a way to pay for it.

That and a Native Chief. Everybody needs a big knife now and then, too :D
 
Yow. I din'a realize how wordy that was 'til I posted it :D

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify a point. I agree wholeheartedly that every single citizen has the right to own and carry whatever tools and weapons he damn well pleases. If you wanna carry a Cuda Maxx, you have the moral and constitutional right to do so.
If you want to carry a machete, you have the moral and constitutional right to do so.
If you want to carry a five-foot Landsknecht zweihander, you have the moral and constitutional right to do so.
Same applies to guns.

But in most circumstances, there will be consequences. Yes, the laws suck. Yes, the laws are unconstitutional. But the laws are enforced. And that's the situation that many of us have to live with. If I made a stand for my weapons rights, I could be kicked out of college, fined, arrested, and prosecuted. That's a lot to deal with when I'm trying to get back on my feet in the first place.

So while I admire people who stand up for <i>our</i> rights, and I hope Spyderco continues to produce larger models, too, right now I'm gonna stick to my Delica-and-SAK EDC, pray for my "gentleman's knife with a bite", and save the big scary steel for the RenFaires ;)
 
Sal,

I don't really share your bleak view.

In my case I own a Leatherman Wave, Camillus EDC, Kershaw Scallion, and Spyderco Native for my "little" knives. Otherwise i've decided to go almost entirely with 3.5"-4" folders because I prefer them and they fit much better ergonomically. Us knife nuts like our options, and I think I'm one of those people who's really tired of bending to public opinion, if it's legal for me to carry my Spydie Chinook, then i'll carry it, i'm carrying it today. And yes, I have busted out my Chinook in crowded restaurants to open ketchup packets before. If they don't like it, that's tough, i'm not sacrificing my freedoms to make a bunch a pasty faced elitist liberals comfortable, I have rights too!

-End Rant-
 
Point A:
"if it's legal for me to carry my Spydie Chinook,
then i'll carry it"

Point B:
"If they don't like it, that's tough"

...

Just remember that in a democracy with far-reaching and very influential media (which allows a relatively small group to have a disproportionate impact on popular opinion), whether "they like it" can have a huge influence over whether it stays legal. Every "pasty faced elitist liberal" you frivolously and self-righteously scare at the restaurant is one more person who'll support a more restrictive knife law in your state.

D'ya think the switchblade laws were passed because not enough kids snicked 'em out to battle condiments?
 
2 Things:

#1 America isn't a democracy (thank god), it's a republic.

#2 You can't please everyone, so please yourself.

"A democracy is two wolves and a chicken voting on what's for dinner, a republic is a well-armed chicken contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
 
Sure, I'll carry what I want.
I almost always have two folders on me, even going up to University. I've also check their policies and there was nothing mentioned about knives and weapons, so I suppose the regular laws apply.
I don't carry a smaller one just to please the sheeple. I've busted open a Endura to cut a plastic bag in a postal office before. I'll only carry a smaller blade because I wanted to. I know personally some people who, no matter you draw a multitool or a folder, he'll (yes HE!) will go nuts on. I let him use an SAK and a fixed blade in a camping trip (he still has the SAK) and he shut up. What a hypocrite.
Sal, you can make any knife you want, I personally don't care whether you try to cater to the gent's folder or smaller blades or not. But I don't want to see diminished blades that are 3"+. Sure I'd pick up a gents folder for a more formal situation, but I'll not bend to the ways of those people who fear a normal person having a utility knife and encourages anti-SD laws.
End Rant......
 
I am not so certain that Knifes are regarded in the same light as guns by "sheeple", yes some may recoil when they see a big folding knife and there are bad stories of employees persecuted for having big (or even medium or small) size folders. As example, Calif. has terrible gun laws, however, knife laws are not bad compared to many other states- you can carry any length folder concealed, you can carry fixed blade if it is visibly exposed, you can even carry auto less than 2" (although latter essentially makes any functional autos and butterly knives impermissible.
I am very disturbed by Anti-gun movement, however, it has not (yet ?) included knives among their targets.
Martin
 
"People see a SAK and think MacGyver. People see a one-handed folder and think West Side Story." --Grover_Cephas

[Expletive] outstanding, Mr. Cephas! Carry on!
 
Few weeks back I was mailing some Morgan dollars for appraisal, and the postal lady needed something to cut the packing tape. Without thinking I laid my Chinese Lum up on the counter and said "Use this eh?". She looked at it, then me, and picked it up, turned it around in her hands a few times, and said "Wow, this is a pretty knife! It looks like a leaf, and it feels so nice." I was standing there hoping that having a knife in a post office wasn't a crime, and lo-and-behold she LOVED the knife. She asked where/how much..etc. I think I sold her one...LOL.

The "gent" folders can make inroads to the more skittish folks, heck that lady might be looking at customs knives now, I dunno. But PLEASE do not quit making the bigger work horses(Military, Chinnok and so on). I do too many things with the bigger blades, and would be sad to see em go.
 
If our society gets to a point where any knife with a blade length over 3" is only viewed as a dangerous weapon, and this view is held universally across our country, then our lives have become a pale shadow of the freedoms upon which this nation was built. I'm pretty familiar with my genealogy, and my family has been in this country since well before the American revolution. My ancestors came here for freedom to live their lives in peace and pursue their own ambitions without an overly meddlesome government. My ancestors have fought and died in every single war which this nation has endured and upon which it was built. I do not take the freedoms that I enjoy for granted and I know what price, in blood, was paid for them to exist.

While I understand that we are now challenged with threats that will test our creativity and fortitude, we cannot, and must not, lose sight that the fundamental thing which makes our nation great is our ability to be free. As long as you are not harming other citizens, you are free to worship as you like, make your fortune, love who you wish, dislike who you wish, say what you wish, and carry whatever knife you wish for daily chores. I understand that "reasonable" limitations should be agreed upon by the general populace and how you define reasonable can be a difficult process, however, the trend I'm seeing in this nation of removing even useful tools like knives from the public, in order to gain an illusion of safety, is absolutely absurd. The line must be drawn in the sand, and it must be drawn here, and now, by the knife industry and by those of us that value our tools. We need to band together and educate our public, our lawmakers, everyone, that a knife is a tool, nothing more. Can you kill more people with a concealed 5" fixed blade knife than you can driving you car at high speed through a down town area? I think not. Your mind is the most powerful weapon that you possess and no individual, police force, or government can ever take your mind away from you or regulate your thoughts and plans. If you are intent upon an "evil" action, what nebulous concept of law is going to deter you. It might make you alter your plans or timetable, but if you are intent on doing wrong, you will find a means. I still prefer to have my freedoms intact to better deal with circumventing the "evildoer's" plans when they cross my path in life, or more likely, in having my freedoms to assist me in rebuilding during the aftermath of a tragedy. My knife is a tool, nothing more. Yes, I can also use it as a weapon but so too can I apply my mind to the use of any other material possession as a weapon.


Perhaps it's because I grew up in a rural area and have carried and used a knife almost daily ever since I was a small boy (oh, yes, even in school back in days not so long ago), that I react so strongly to this trend I see in our society. People are seriously out of touch with how to be responsible for themselves and their own actions; and they seem to have trouble forcing other people to take responsibility for harmful actions when they commit them. For the love of God people, or whatever else you hold sacred, let's please, please derail this runaway trend before it's too late.

Thank you very much for reading through my little rant and I apologize if anyone found it offensive. I'm simply exasperated by the current trends of excessive regulation in our country (usually initiated for a well-meaning reason). Multitudes of laws will never successfully replace morality and ethics, but they will make people feel less inclined to struggle with ethical decisions in their own personal lives since they have so many laws already deciding for them what they should do. I begin to feel that this is the place where we are now.
 
Another right on, Nobody.
Whenever I have this conversation with anyone concerning guns and/or knives, I always tell them, if they don't want to kill anyone, I could give them an assault rifle/sniper rifle/machine gun and they won't harm anyone. If they wanted to kill someone, they don't need to have any gun or knives to kill that person.
You can kill a person by stuffing a ball of newspaper down their throats. Ban newspapers. You can kill someone by shocking them with electricity, let's ban the electric company. You can kill a person with a pen, let's ban pens.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :barf: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
End rant...
 
Hey, back in my Kindergarten thru 5th grade days I used to beat my enemies senseless with backpacks. But that was back when we had organized wars...
 
Sal,
I certainly can’t agree as to your 3-th item – defensively oriented folders and their illegality. For me the knife is the knife and it is user’s decision and liability how to use it. Also the bystander reception depends a lot on knife user’s behavior, not on knife shape and dimensions only.
Differently we should escape from possession of the tactical-kitchen knives like Military what would be exceptionally sad for me because I like it a lot and use it constantly for peaceful tasks. Yes, I agree that it is better to do not go with such knives in urban public reserving them mostly for use around household and outdoors. But in my opinion sensible people should do all to don’t allow banning their carry as itself just because “they could serve as crime tool”. There are a lot of peaceful tools what could be used for murder - axe, hammer, thin screwdriver, piece of metal pipe or baseball bat – this is a very shortened list only.
Generally I’m satisfied with knife laws in my country. We are not limited as to knives we could carried legally, the most of limitations touch what we are doing with our knives. In theory I may walk with 8” bowie concealed, another matter where I’m walking and what way I can justify walking with such knife.
Of course there are no laws what couldn’t be turned and twisted by stupidity or bad intentions.

However law regulation is one thing and bystander reception – quite another. This is why I strongly support your desire to design the knives what can do much more than they look able to do, the 2-nd item in your list.

BTW, if situation would request to use my knife to defend my life (God forbid!) I don’t think that Salsa would serve me any worse than, say, Military. People pretty frequently mix very different things – real knife fight and knife brandishing to scare away an assailant this way avoiding knife fight at all. This last may work or may not, IMHO it is pretty slippery way and I never reserve such behavior for myself.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top