Trends - discussion

Sal,
Trends seem to be heading toward the shorter bladed knives from what I'm seeing. This is a very sad thing to me and I seem to be saying more and more to people that "a bigger blade can do the chores a little blade can do, but a little blade cannot do the chores a big blade can do" in response to the question of why carry a 4" bladed folder? Your idea of the big little blade as in the Lil' Temperance has merit. There will be a growing demand for these types of folders in the near future as knife "feel good laws" become more and more repressive on a state and then a national level. They are already happening on a local level as knife nuts in Boston can attest to.
This trend can be stopped, but only by making the legislators understand that their "feel good laws" are causing far more harm than good.
That might be a nearly impossible task as politicians are always looking for ways to look good to as many people as possible and what better way to look good than to pass laws stopping these mad dog knifers by taking away their tools of murder and mayhem?
We, the educated knife collecting/using public, know this is pure Bullsh*t but we are a minority, relatively speaking.
This makes our task of educating the non-knife public all the more daunting. One would think that common sense would prevail in this issue, in that, a stabbing and/or slashing implement can easily be fashioned from commonly obtained materials and trying to take knives out of the hands of criminals by taking knives away from everyone is futile at best and ludicrous almost to the extreme. The criminal element don't care about no steenking laws.
The only people adversely affected by the "feel good laws" would be honest citizens. Such seems to be the case more and more.
Call me paranoid but I see a deeper and more sinister force at work here. Factions within our government intent on tyranny cannot control a population that is armed. Subjugation must begin with dis-armament of the civilian population. History shows us this time and again with Hitler being a classic example.
We already see this happening as our right to purchase high capacity magazines for our pistols has already been stolen from us under the guise of protecting our police officers from people with more firepower than they have being the excuse. Take away their guns slowly and one piece at a time seems to be the plan. It will not be long before they(liberal legislators) use this same type of excuse to strip us of our rights to carry folders with 3-4" blades saying they are used to defeat police body armor or some such rot. Legislate knife blade length down to a nub and then legislate knives out of the hands of the citizenry is already happening in some major cities. (As well as gun ownership, I might add.)
I'm afraid trends are moving in the direction of shorter and shorter blades until we have to ask state permission to carry a 2" blade folder. After all, what need do you have to warrant the carry of such a dangerous weapon?

With all this, I hope Spyderco still keeps larger blades on the menu for the hungry knife nuts out here. I hope the picture I'm painting here is not too bleak and hopeless. I believe things can still be salvaged if Americans can be made to see what is happening to them and being done to them in their name.

Geez! I need a Prozac.:rolleyes:
 
I find my smallest size of knife that works day to day is 3" or so. Now either an Opinel N7, Spyderco Native or Small Sebenza is fine.

Given the choice though 3.5" to 4" is the size I carry.:cool:

Even in the UK... (only at work you understand)
 
I haven't read all the other reply posts yet before I wrote this, but yes I see a trend to offering smaller folders, esp. since 9/11, but even before that, if you're working in certain environments a large folder can be a liability.

That said, I still carry at least a medium-sized (3.5") bladed folder in reserve wherever I can. A good medium or large sized knife can cut lightly, but a knife that is very small or delicate (small AND delicate don't always go together), will not perform up to a larger knife when needed. That's why I tend to multi-carry different knives at the same time. :)

I see a trend these days to neck knives, and I have tried on and off to wear/carry my La Griffe and a couple others, but I still find folders more comfortable and convenient to carry/use. Plus they are considered illegal in many places.

Another trend is of course to different locking mech's (i.e., axis, compression, etc.), as well as the standards (lock back, etc.). The gadget factor goes up, but with it, often the safety factor rises as well. I don't yet own a compression lock knife, but from handling, I would imagine it would be stronger, safer and more wear-resistant than a liner lock, which bodes will for long-term use. To be honest, though, I have so many knives I doubt I'll wear out any one of them very soon.

Also see a trend to both less expensive knives with high quality and durability, and higher-end knives for all that, plus the artistic and collector factor. The former type being bought and used by more people, but the latter type raising the overall standards of knives. In fact, often a type of high-end design will inspire a more budget version.

Once again to knife size, I spoke to a young guy at the knife display in a gun shop, and he was over-adamant as to knife size. He said, "If somebody doesn't like my big knife, F them. I'll just tell 'em to F'n back the hell offa me if they don't like it."

I kind of understand his feelings, BUT, the problem here is, those who are bothered by a large knife are the majority, and yes, often it DOES matter not only what we pull out, but how we present ourselves as serious and responsible knife owners. In such a case i would opt to just pull out my little SAK, or Ladybug, and save the larger knife for when it's really needed. If it's really needed in sensitive company, then it's best to not be so defensive about it. Only in such a way can we begin to educate and "reprogram" others to view responsible knife people in a positive light.
Jim
 
Unfortunately, re-educating people will probably come too late as it seems it will soon be illegal to carry anything of medium to large size. As a environmental regulator, I can attest to the fact that once laws are passed, no matter how bad the law may be, it is exceedingly hard to get them changed or repealed. It is far, far better to proactively prevent laws from being passed than to try to change them after they are in effect.

So, while education is very important, it needs to go hand-in-hand with lobbying power.
 
Very interesting discussion. Just a couple of points:

I appreciate the folders that have blades less than three inches, for maximum legality when traveling. However, don't assume that shorter blades help with public perception. As a previous poster mentioned, there are other characteristics that come into play. From what I have seen, blades that are short, but wide or serrated, are also perceived as scary or dangerous. I hope that you never compromise your designs for the sake of public opinion, because it will be a losing battle. Also, I hope that you will not abandon the full-sized folder market.

I don't know what the answer is, so I just try to point out to people how a particular knife is useful and why I carry it. That is the best that I can do to combat the problem.
 
My .02 :D

1. Blades with a high utility function for EDC.
2. More colorful and embelished factory knives.
3. Stronger and more reliable locks for folders.
4. Smaller fixed blades.
5. More tool-like blades and items from knife makers. (axes, machetes, garden knives, food knives, camp saws, multi-Tools, shovels, keychain knives, scissors, and knives with flashlights; bottle openers, sharpeners, screwdrivers, etc........) For example, look at Becker, Cold Steel, Buck, or Gerber/Fiskars. When you get used to good quality steel in your cutting tools, you don't want to go back. :p

I still buy the large fixed blades and Tactical folders, but I rarely carry them. A large fixed blade will always be welcome for outdoor activities though. :D
 
Originally posted by Nobody
It is far, far better to proactively prevent laws from being passed than to try to change them after they are in effect.
Click to expand...
It was said in my Crim 101 class that once a law is passed, it takes at least a decade to take it off the books.
Sad really. :(
 
For those of you who are carrying folding knives into and out of federal buildings such as Post Offices, please read the following from 18USC930(Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 930):

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I--CRIMES
CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS

Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in
Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to--
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession
is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the
United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders
regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within
any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ``Federal facility'' means a building or part
thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their
official duties.
(2) The term ``dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2\1/2\ inches in length.
(3) The term ``Federal court facility'' means the courtroom,
judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney
conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court
clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal,
probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court
of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
**************************************

I have italicized and bolded the specific paragraph of interest, but I did include the entire Section 930 for your information. I work in a federal agency, the Securities and Exchange Commission, in a city, Washington, DC, where there is a 3" blade limit. I used to carry a Gunting as my utility, not self defense, EDC as it fit my arthritic hands very, very well, but its appearance, especially after 9-11, became just too much of a liability and I started carrying less presumptuous appearing knives. As Sal has suggested, the Salsa, with its 2 7/16" blade and, in mine, blue hilt, is a perfect choice for an office-friendly knife. I also happen to think that the blue is an extremely handsome color, all on its own. I am not in a place to offer comment on any of Sal's other thoughts.
 
Sal, I suspect some of the trends you mentioned may be temporary.
Under the present circumstances when the knife industry got a black eye because of the Sept 11 incident, knife makers almost by reflex action is backstepping to produce "innocent" looking knives.

Knives by nature are more attractive if they project a "predatory" look. Many collectors tend to look at knives from the hunter's point of view. That means tough-looking, slightly mean if necessary and not looking like a tooth-pick.

I guess there is a place in our society for little big knives but the trend may not catch on.

My feeling is knives will be most popular around the 4-6inch length category, and it will stay there for some time. How "cute" you want to make the knife to be will depend on your creativity and imagination.

Customers normally don't buy knives according to government legal specs. They just buy what their eyes tell their mind that the sharpened tool is beautiful.

Self-defence tactical folders have been the darling of blades for years now. This kind of folder has found a niche market. They are hard to shake.

Thin knives may find a very small audience. People tend to associate thin blades with kitchen knives or box cutters. I may be wrong but to knife collectors, thin equals weak, though in reality that may not be the case.

I believe those knives that will stay for generations will be the "useful" ones. For example, the Swiss knife. Almost everybody I know owns one. They are that useful. With a SAK, you know you are carrying a tool box in your pocket.

Frankly, how much can you do with a one-blade knife? A folder or fixed blade may be very nice to look at and hold but after staring at it for 1,000 times and holding it for months, your eyes will get tired and the novelty effect would have worn slightly thin.

I would say, try to find or design a useful knife. The term may be a bit vague but I am sure knife collectors know a good thing when they see one.

If the father knows he can hand over a knife to his young son without fear that he will hurt himself, you know you have a winner on your hands.

What kind of knife that would be in future terms will depend on your imagination without boundaries.
 
Fuller, did you notice the following exception to the ban on dangerous weapons in federal non-court facilities?

"(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to--
...
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes."

I last researched this a year ago, but as of that time I had never seen a court case that interpreted what "other lawful purposes" are. However, it's generally legal to carry a knife. What if "other lawful purposes" simply means you're not breaking any other laws?

To a certain extent you're taking a risk when you carry a knife with a blade length of over 2 1/2" in a federal non-court facility. The risk that you would have to demonstrate that you were carrying under the exception for lawful purposes. But the exception does exist.

Best regards,

Johnny
 
Yipes! You mean I have been breakin the law everytime I stroll into the Post Office to grab company mail? I drag a Military or a Police EVERYWHERE I go(except places that the cops like to rifle thru my pockets). Ack...this is not good news, now I have to take em out an another place. *pouts*


I'm gonna go dig a hole in Alaska somewhere and live in it.
 
The color idea might be nice, so long as it's also offered in more muted tones for other tastes. Just thought about a big folder swathed in the red, white and blue. Let someone hassle you over your knife and they'll seem un-American!
 
If we're talking about a trend in smaller folding knives, here is something I'd like to see a major manufacturer do... Come out with a quality kids knife, sized for a kids hand with a secure grip, with a quality locking mechanism. My oldest daughter is slowly but surely getting old enough to have a pocketknife, which she wants now, but I have a hard time finding anything that is really sized for a kid and meets my previous description. The Benchmade 770 will fit my daughters hands very well in a few years but I'm not about to buy a pocket knife that costs $ 110 for a child. Perhaps this trend of which Mr. Glesser speaks will produce some more suitable children's knives. :D
 
Originally posted by JohnnyLightOn
Fuller, did you notice the following exception to the ban on dangerous weapons in federal non-court facilities?

"(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to--
...
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes."

I last researched this a year ago, but as of that time I had never seen a court case that interpreted what "other lawful purposes" are. However, it's generally legal to carry a knife. What if "other lawful purposes" simply means you're not breaking any other laws?

To a certain extent you're taking a risk when you carry a knife with a blade length of over 2 1/2" in a federal non-court facility. The risk that you would have to demonstrate that you were carrying under the exception for lawful purposes. But the exception does exist.

Best regards,

Johnny
Click to expand...

Johnny, while I had noticed it, if you read a bit further, you will see that it is a rather generalized kind of exemption which, from experience working for the feds, I can tell you will be interpreted as narrowly as possible when the circumstances suggest that interpretation. In other words, the federal enforcement type has a lot of latitude and my experience is that the more they have the more they will use it against you. Stick to the 2 1/2" exemption, it is very specific and gives little or no latitude.
 
Sal,
how are you my freind?
not getting into the academical debate of civil rights or what not,
i tend to support GOLOK point of view.
the hunch of the trend moving into small knives does not seem to hold water.. i belive that most leading knife companies still relay on the sales of the "tactical" folders in the size area of "3.5-4"blade lengh
the Endura/police/military in spyderco,the m-16's in CRKT,the voyegers in cold steel,and the afck'and axis lock knives in benchmade.
knife users[and the big buyers who buys several knives a year]tend to use the bigger blades,also walking the custome knife shows the "4"folders always go first.
the "TACTICAL"trend is been around for the last 10 years and it does not look it is going anywhere and leave it to the small knives.
the events of 9\11 did not change it,more likely it put more emphsis on the need and mind set that we in the free world have to protect ourselves any givven time and everywhere.
i am not fimiliar with what is going on in the U.S regarding restricting legislation about knives, but if you are talking about MARKET trends i belive you are mistaken.
i would really like to see in SPYDERCO future models more"ATTITUDE"
knives and less P.C knives .:D
we are in the knife buissnes and knives are also a weapon if needs to be and not only nail groomers if carried by the good people so where is the problem if carried by the bad people they will always find some sort of tool to deliver their mean internsions[i.o box cutters].
scorpio.
 
Hi Scorpio. Thanx for geting back to the trends discussion.

Spyderco will still make larger knives and certainly people will still carry them, but I think the "trend" will be to carry smaller knives. As Golok mentioned, the Swiss Army knife, is smaller and is PC and they are everywhere. The "sinister" looking pieces will more often than not, remain at home, IMO.

The Tactical trend has actually been around for 20 years, and IMO, there will always be MBC pieces. I think they will be more difficult to carry, at least in the US.

sal
 
In regards to Knife laws and how they are interpreted, I live in Queensland, Australia and have been tried and punished to the full extent of the law for the dubious crime of "Posessing a knife( A Spydie Police :D )in a public place without a valid excuse" with no explanation of what a valid excuse maybe

After all was said and done in the Court room was given a $200 fine with no conviction recorded and was given my knife back and the kind arresting officer called me a week later to see how I was going and to see if I got my knife back ( I've found being excesively polite to cops helps )

It is now illegal to carry any knife at all but that hasn't stopped me at all in fact I carry more :D
 
I have to agree with Sal here. The first reason that comes to mind is that right now the majority of people on the street don't carry a knife. You can call them sheeple or whatever you want, but enough paranoid people can really make life for us knife knuts hell. Thus, I believe that companies will try to make their knives as "innocent" looking as possible. For example, I have never been told that the Salsa looks like a dangerous weapon. However, I've been told that my CQC7, Lil' Temperance (Rhino), and Mini Commander have been called dangerous looking. As a result of this knife paranoia, some are going to tone down their carry to avoid possible confrontations with the law and to avoid the social stigmata which seems to follow carrying a large blade. As for myself, I've started to carry knives that are under 3.5in even though the legal length in MO is 4.0in. The second reason is that I feel that the tactical folder craze is making room for more slipjoint and gent knives which are more PC and diffent from the everyday black G10 folder.
Personally, I welcome more smaller folders like the Salsa and the upcoming ATR. This is about the size of knife that I prefer to carry and I find that even smaller knives, when equipped with the super locks of today are incredibly useful and utilitarian. I still hope that this hatred of knives by the public is temporary and that by introducing more small folders, the large folder market isn't infringed upon.
Matt
 
I don't believe that the blade length has the complete say of "innocent" looking knives. You don't see people freak out on 3" elaborate gents folder, but I've seen people freak out on my "regular" 3" folder.
I admit that I'm carrying a Ladybug so that if I can't pull out my regular EDC (my endura is somewhere in the mail system), I could still use something that the people wouldn't freak out as easily.
IMO, a bulk of people in the modern society just don't want to bear any responsibilites. Whenever there's some kind of killing/injury, they start blaming the weapon in question. While the "weapon" (which most likely a tool in normal circumstances, ie a car, a hammer) doesn't really do the act of harming, they always take the blame. I think something gone wrong with raising people in modern society that makes guns and knives so much more intolerable.
 
I'd love to see some more small Spydies, including smaller versions of existing models.

Thumbs up to:

Paramilitary

A small Chinook

A small Lum Tanto

Thank you very much :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top