Tribal markings?

Edwood7

Edwood7

Joined
Mar 31, 2010
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Anyone know where I can find some information on the web on Native American tribal markings?

I’m thinking of customizing one of my Winkler axes, and save it to pass down to my children on day.

 
Brother Edwood, search southwest pottery, weaving and NDN cave paintings for symbols. Also tipi and lodge paintings. There is a ton of info in the old sketch books and the journals of Lewis and Clark.
A book that you would really enjoy is Native American Survival Skills by Ben Hunt.
http://www.amazon.com/Native-American-Survival-Skills-ebook/dp/B003BEES9G
If you can't find it in the lower latitudes let me know and I'll send you a copy...........Randy
 
Hey Randy
They are kind of neat links. When you look at the images that actually discribe what the symbols mean it allows you to more or less read things like the Apache trays mainly used in gambling. One of my favoutite subjects of study are ledger drawings which were done mainly after capture in Florida prison as a way to make some money. These drawings are directly related in most cases to the early exploit robes and History robes that were done pre white contact. Once you know the meanings of the symbols used it allows you to read the drawing. My Wife studied extensively and did literally dozens of ledger drawing reproductions and became quite an expert prior to her passing on. Here is a link to some ledger drawing many of which my wife did reproductions of. http://www.google.ca/search?q=ledge...-LoHJ0AGp35iICg&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=578

R
 
Randy and all
Here are two drwings my Wife did. They both depict Sitting Bull. If you looks above him you will see how they were marked so as to be able to identify the warrior in the drawing (the sitting bull))). The bow over the head of the person means that Sitting Bull counted coup on that person. Reading the drawing. The top drawing shows a number of things. The trail means he travelled a distance to get there. That it was an ambush shown by the fact that Sitting Bulls lance is at rest, his shield is covered, his horses tail is down. The second drawing was an expected battle, his horses tail is tied up, his shield if uncovered, the warriors he likely killed, at least wounded were not of high stature as the is no bow indicating the counting of coup, his horse was wounded in the back leg. A very interesting note is the donut shaped object on his lance is a buffalo scrotum shaker (rattle) indicating the Sitting Bull was a member of the Bow string society, an elite warrior/"medicine man" society. Enjoy.


R

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Robin these are awesome and the Lady of the house was very talented. I have some of T M Hamilton's sketch books on early trade weapons. Interesting reading . My Grandmother was born in 1899 on an Apache reservation in Arizona. She talked of the white men coming there when she was a kid with their cameras and sketch books, wanted them to dress in their NDN clothes.
Thanks, I did not know there was hidden meanings in the ledger drawings. Now I need another lifetime to study this......Edwood, are you getting this? it's good stuff.......Randy
 
yes i am brother Randy

You have given me a lot to look at, I’m at LAX right now, waiting for a flight out to NY, and I’m saving all the info to read on the long flight.
I love does drawings of “Sitting Bull” Robin, knowing the meaning behind does symbols really opens up a new meaning in to the drawings. I wonder how much I have missed in the drawings I have seen so far; I’m going to have to look at all of them again.
I have very little left to me by my grandfather, a few note books, old pictures, old cameras and a few pocket knives. But what most interest me are the stories that he passed down to my mother. I’m trying hard to save compile everything I can in a scrap book I’m making. Later on I’m going to let my kids fill their parts. I hope I’m as interesting to my kids as my grandfather and mothers are to me. The axe I hope will tell a story all by it self.
 
church&son said:
My Grandmother was born in 1899 on an Apache reservation in Arizona. She talked of the white men coming there when she was a kid with their cameras and sketch books, wanted them to dress in their NDN clothes.
Click to expand...

Anthropologists! :D

I may have seen some of those pictures.
 
church&son said:
Robin these are awesome and the Lady of the house was very talented. I have some of T M Hamilton's sketch books on early trade weapons. Interesting reading . My Grandmother was born in 1899 on an Apache reservation in Arizona. She talked of the white men coming there when she was a kid with their cameras and sketch books, wanted them to dress in their NDN clothes.
Thanks, I did not know there was hidden meanings in the ledger drawings. Now I need another lifetime to study this......Edwood, are you getting this? it's good stuff.......Randy
Click to expand...

Randy
Once you sift through the hollywood BS and the revisionist history written about the First Nations peoples what you find is a wonderful rich culture, as you know. Edwin Curtis was pretty much the same as all the other early photographers in doing set up pictures of the people. It kind of pisses me off BUT he did record many images of material items which may have been lost otherwise. While our Canadian governments were doing their best to ban native culture up here through residential schools there were early anthropologists who in fact are behind the saving of a number of languages. One of the folks who did very correct images was painter and explorer George Catlin who lived with the tribes doing everyday life things. Here's a quote fron Catlin that I love very much.

"I love a people who have always made me feel welcome to the best they had.



I love a people who are honest without laws, who have no jails and no poorhouses.



I love a people who keep the commandments without ever having read them or heard them preached from the pulpit.



I love a people who never swear, who never take the name of God in vain.



I love a people who love their neighbor as they love themselves.



I love a people who worship God without a bible, for I believe that God loves them also.



I love a people whose religion is all the same, and who are free from religious animosity.



I love a people who have never raised a hand against me, or stole my property, where there was no law to punish them for either.



I love a people who have never fought a battle with white men, except on their own ground.



I love and don't fear mankind where God has made and left them, for there they are children.



I love a people who live and keep what is their own without locks and keys.



I love a people who do the best they can.



And oh, how I love a people who don't live for the love of money."


R.
 
And oh, how I love a people who don't live for the love of money."
Click to expand...
A lot to be learned from the past. George Catlin worked in a studio in the Smithsonian “Castle" during his last years replicating his earlier paintings. I think he also spent time with Lewis on a later adventure. Awesome dude. Would like to spend an afternoon listing to those stories.
Zalmon Gilbert and later his son also took thousands of studio reservation pics in the later 1800's. I have tons of these saved for "future" projects.
Avas, most of these "Anthropologists" were selling their pics as postcards and artifacts to the back east folks and dime novels. In Fort Yates in 1880 there was over 50 photography studios so you may have seen some of the originals.

Great thread folks, history day.........Randy
 






Here are a few close ups of Daniel Winkler’s work. He was kind enough to send me a couple of examples of the tribal designs he has put on some of the R&D hawks. Grate information Robin and Randy.
 
Hey Brother, glad you're in NY where it's safer. ;-)) Dan Winkler is the reason I started making knives and hawks, his work was the first to inspire me. Karens sheaths are amazing too.

Keep safe Bro

R
 
I’m headed back home tomorrow, I just came up here to accompany my boss. (Being bilingual is grate). The knife laws here are crazy. I only carried my slug dashi and a small kubotan.

Daniel did not mention what these markings mean or were they came from, any ideas guys?
Id email him again and ask but it’s much more interesting having you guys figure it out.;):thumbup:




here is on from ML knives that has some markings on the handle
 
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Edwood, Welcome our city of brotherly love. 7 million people all wanting to live together. (they hug you while stealing your wallet)

Mr. Lesniewsk (ML) That one looks like eyes, maybe owl, caricatures of eyes were big, windows into the soul. That sort of thing. Chuck Burrows uses one similar on all his sheaths, always meant to ask him what it stood for.

Mr. Winklers looks like Crow/ Blackfoot designs. They used geometric patterns for everything. A diamond could be a mountain or wave. I study the beading and quill patterns and it seems to mean whatever the artist felt at the moment. Like all art it was just interpretive. The northeast NDN's like Robins area seemed to be more realistic, floral patterns and landscape .
Mr. Winkler and Miss Shook, although I've never had the pleasure of meeting them, have also been a huge influence on me and my piddly stuff. They have a unique style that has been plagiarized but never copied.

A thought Brother Edwood, I know of your love of South American history, what about some Mayan or Latin artwork? The Bonampak murals in Chiapas has some pretty wild stuff on them. Also very interesting art on blankets and pottery.
And my favorite, the Aztecs had a bunch of neat/scary Gods.
Heres a site on the Axtec Codex
http://www.ancientscripts.com/aztec.html .....Randy
 
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"The northeast NDN's like Robins area seemed to be more realistic, floral patterns and landscape ."

Florals etc were adopted designs after contact, mainly taken from oriental rugs. Prior to contact most NE tribes used geometrics and sacred symbols to decorate their personal pieces. When beads became available through trade the earlier quill work pretty much disappeared as did many of the early symbols.

Best regards

Robin
 
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