Trying to buy the latest Northwoods

Railsplitter said:
It would be awesome if the Northwoods buying process could be designed to please everybody but I have no idea how that could happen.

What I do know is that if I had a product that sold 500 units in 10 minutes I wouldn't change a thing.
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Maybe not everyone but pleasing there previous long term customers would be my priority . Obviously they don’t need to sell more buy pushing there advertising of them . I could see if they were first starting out to build a strong customer base but there not .
Anyway just beating a dead horse here so I’ve said my piece and made my choice and will bow gracefully out of this debate :)
On a ending note I think they should concentrate on having there NW knives move up a few notches on quality control VS more customers even if they are selling because of supply and demand marketing .
 
Who paid for expedited shipping? And who will be getting these first? I'm excited to see the variants.
 
TheFactor said:
Oh I totally get it but if it were I it would be my loyal customers That would be my priority even if it meant loosing some new customers . Integrity is and would be more important to me :thumbsup:
Also I wouldn’t want to loose a customer that spent 1000’s over the years”Like me” vs gaining a few more that might be some that never buy except for NW runs .​
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I don't disagree with you...I'm disappointed that I didn't get a notification; but whether I would have purchased would have been dependent on me finding a handle that I liked before it sold (and it would have been a material that required selection). And I'm also one that doesn't have much patience for the process...if I'm unsuccessful in purchasing such releases, I'm fairly quick to simply disregard future offerings. Luckily, I got the Hawthorne that I wanted (well, my third and final choice), and I didn't actually try this time; so I'm not ready to swear off them, yet.
 
hhmoore said:
I don't disagree with you...I'm disappointed that I didn't get a notification; but whether I would have purchased would have been dependent on me finding a handle that I liked before it sold (and it would have been a material that required selection). And I'm also one that doesn't have much patience for the process...if I'm unsuccessful in purchasing such releases, I'm fairly quick to simply disregard future offerings. Luckily, I got the Hawthorne that I wanted (well, my third and final choice), and I didn't actually try this time; so I'm not ready to swear off them, yet.
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For sure I understand :)
Unfortunately you don’t have time to pick . I was just clicking on what ever was there throwing it in my cart and trying each one and still couldn’t get one lol and that’s when it wasn’t saying error sorry .
Right at there starting time 4pm .
 
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mrknife said:
you know if you dont buy their knives, they lose. flippers, gougers you name it. just dont buy it and watch the price drop. i barely wanted to play the game with the lincoln jacks and @BigBiscuit sold me his practically at cost.
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Great points and I’ll probably check out the secondary market but won’t pay a mark up that’s for sure .
I’m curious to see if there quality control is any better then there last runs .
Gritty action , blade not closing with out a push at the end of the travel a long with bad transitions from covers to end caps , sharp edges on back spring between covers is what I’ve experienced.
But yes I was crazy enough to try and buy from there last run .
Guess I’m knife crazy and admittedly getting caught up in the supply and demand .
Also just to be clear I’m not saying there all like that but from “my experience”more then not and feels like a crap shoot .
I did get lucky and had a Stag Hawthorne Jack that was a fine example.
 
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I really think KSF needs to go to some sort of preorder or massdrop style model so it's not an internet browser battle trying to get a knife. They can feed their regular customers and gauge demand to avoid being stuck with dead stock.

I did buy a couple Northwoods on the secondary market but I'm off the whole treadmill. There are tons of other just as nice knives out there that don't need mental gymnastics to find. It's a shame since they are such nice knives but as they say "the more you want the unhappier you are".
 
Their model makes lots of money for them quickly but F's over the collector.

I would think they would do better in the long run by having a fee paid (less than $ 50) collector's association where they offer the true collector the first shot and then open it to a mass drop. Sort of what Emerson has been doing with their ECA, Signature series, and lotteries.
 
TheFactor said:
Great points and I’ll probably check out the secondary market but won’t pay a mark up that’s for sure .
I’m curious to see if there quality control is any better then there last runs .
Gritty action , blade not closing with out a push at the end of the travel a long with bad transitions from covers to end caps , sharp edges on back spring between covers is what I’ve experienced.
But yes I was crazy enough to try and buy from there last run .
Guess I’m knife crazy and admittedly getting caught up in the supply and demand .
Also just to be clear I’m not saying there all like that but from “my experience”more then not and feels like a crap shoot .
I did get lucky and had a Stag Hawthorne Jack that was a fine example.
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right, i remember when the hawthornes were released and I thought im never gonna get one because of scalpers and what not. ended up on the secondary market and bought mine on instagram months later because some one was in a hurry to sell a bunch. You cant lose if you dont play their game.
 
I'm not disappointed about missing out on the last few patterns - this is zero reflection on them, the seller or manufacturer; only my tastes and what I already own. If I really wanted one, couldn't get it direct before they sold out, and refused to pay high aftermarket prices; I'd wait, or get a hold of some equally sought out patterns. Let's say I have a couple Freemonts, Deltas, TCs, NFs, or whatever - there isn't much in this production space that I'd ever want that I couldn't get via trade or sell to buy.
 
I don't understand the displeasure about the current business model. It means that not everybody gets the knife they want all the time, but that's life.

I don't have any affiliation to the site or owner.

My views:

Advertising on social media vs on the forums and word of mouth:
The guy has a business and is trying to expand it and people give him crap about advertising his products on social media and trying to draw more people to his site in general- where is the issue with that? Are we really upset that a guy is trying to grow his livelihood?

Giving everybody a fair shot vs giving long term customers a head start:
Again, it would not be very effective to get new customers to the site only to tell them that long term customers get all the good stuff before they have a chance. That's not a smart business model

Supply vs. Demand:
Given that these sold out in 10 minutes, he could have chosen to jack the price up much higher or made more of them to sell. He chose not to jack the price up and not to make more (I have no insight to the actual reason, but I'm guessing to keep the price "fair" and to keep them "special" by limiting the qty.) Maybe GEC production schedule was full and thats all the could make. Maybe thats all the cash he had to throw at this particular SFO and thats why there are a limited number. Who knows? Also a factor - im sure he wanted to recoup the upfront cost of buying 500 knives quickly if at all possible. (ballpark $50k at $100 a knife? - just guessing here). Basic economics says he could have made a pile of more money on them, but he chose not to. It's his business. Again, where is the issue here other than not everybody got one?

Pricing (initial and secondary markets):
Any good or service is worth exactly one price.. and that's the price that somebody else is willing to pay for it. If somebody is willing to pay more than you on the secondary market when the price is jacked up that's their decision based on their priority structure. Ill admit I'm not particularly fond of scalpers, but if somebody is willing to pay more than me what good does it do to be upset about it?

Announcements:
He told us exactly when and where they'd be available if you were looking for it. Again, he provided a fair shot for everybody that was interested.

I don't have the time, money, capital or wherewithal to put a factory SFO together with GEC but I'm glad people like this do because it provides us with an opportunity to purchase something that would not exist otherwise. The key word there is "opportunity" not "guarentee".

For anybody that has a better business model in mind and the capital to make something like this happen with a company like GEC, please put it to the test - ill probably buy one.

But based on the feedback it would have to look something like this:
1. Only tell us knife nuts on the traditional forum about it and nobody else. This will surely minimize social media and new customer exposure (exactly what any business will want?)
2.Order thousands of them so they dont run out before everybody has one. (2nd mortgage?)
3.Spend the time and money to create and manage a pre order, special members only super secret list of people who you'll allow to buy your knives (special secret handshake?)
4. Literally make everybody happy all the time.

Do we all want to be able to buy everything we want? Sure.
Can we always do that? Nope.
 
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well part of the issue is, are gone within minutes, and then the knives are already on ebay before they are even shipped.

which can be because of: a) inside job, b) scalpers/flippers ,c) poor control of purchases/sales d)they're in on the take

i dont know whats going on, just idle speculation on my part. At one point id wanted a certain model or two of north woods which I eventually got my hands on so I will chase them no further. If their intention is to avoid flippers back jacking up the initial public offering price, they are making a killing. At the end of the day, these knives are just things, and things are worth what some one else is willing to pay for it. And for my part, I am certainly not willing to pay their inflated costs. Also seeing as their shipping isn't actually free, in most cases if I can avoid them, I will not do business with them as other places are more forthcoming about their pricing. They did throw in a pocket slip last time during the 25s sale, so I guess there's that.
 
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Lol these threads, every single time a new SFO comes out, are hilarious. Everyone’s trying to come up with a new way to do it so that they can get the knife that they “missed”. Guess what, no matter what you guys/gals can come up with, there will always be people that get the knives to enjoy, miss out, or flip (whether they do it immediately or in later months).

As for this:

mrknife said:
well part of the issue is, are gone within minutes, and then the knives are already on ebay before they are even shipped which can be because of: a) inside job, b) scalpers/flippers ,c) poor control of purchases/sales d)they're in on the take
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Lots of conspiracy theories here surrounding a few hundred knives, with specific reference to only a few knives at that.

a. It’s an inside job to sell what stock is on hand?Ummm yeah, it is, that’s the point of a business and as you can see, when you have thousands of people fighting to grab a few hundred knives, it doesn’t take long at all. Remember that there’s an entire world of people who want these knives, not just BF members.

b. I’m sure there’s a few scalpers/flippers but they have no more of an advantage at buying the knives when they’re first released than anyone else. Flippers miss out also.

c. Not sure what you’re even referring to here because there doesn’t ever seem to be any issues with KSF taking and shipping orders. A few people had some issues but it seems that was a small percentage since all the knives sold.

d. My favorite, “they’re in on the take”. Really? To flip knives on eBay?? They just sold roughly $20k (based on 200 knives @ $100 a piece) worth of knives in 10 minutes and they’re going to waste the time to set a few aside to make new listings on eBay, hope that someone purchases them for an inflated price or list them as an auction and have to wait a week to sell, pay the dealer eBay fees, PayPal fees, etc? After all that, the “profits” have been flushed down the toilet.

WOW.
 
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What a bunch of Whiners and Haters. You want the knife but whine about the price and the availability. You hate those that got the knives and hate the owner for not treating you and your buds as "special customers." You especially hate the "flippers" but more than a few of you wait a few months or years and flip them yourselves for a good profit.

Maybe you need to accept the fact that you don't have enough money or time to continue to collect as you once did. If Northwoods put out the same number of knives as say Remington did in the Camillus days, you'd have plenty of product, but no "cachet", little resale profit and no long term price stability.

Think about the overall Northwoods story from that shop in Michigan that sold Queen SFO,
to Scagel-reproductions made in Michigan,
to SFOs made by whomever with no Scagel connection.

It's all about the knives...not really, it's all about marketing the knife. That's why Dave Shirley bought the Scagel mark and initiated the business model that KSF has perfected. More power to them...:)
 
mrknife said:
which can be because of: a) inside job, b) scalpers/flippers ,c) poor control of purchases/sales d)they're in on the take
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I can't confirm or deny any of that, so I'll admit that is possible, but I would also want to add in option e.)

E. Someone bought a knife fair and square, took a screenshot of their order page, clipped the image down to the one listed on the site, and then posted it to "the bay" with a long auction time before ever getting the knife themselves - giving them time to receive the knife and have it ready to ship before the auction ends.

That won't make many of us happy... but it will make exactly 1 person happy. The one who missed the original sale, found that one on "the bay", and determined through their own set of values that whatever the price is listed at now is still worth it and buys the thing.

The person listing it on that site saw something that they determined to be undervalued, bought it, took the chance they would lose money on it, and is trying to resell it at their perceived value... risk vs. Reward. Capitalism.

The same holds true if I invest in stocks or mutual funds or retirement accounts today hoping that the value goes up (tomorrow or ten years from now) and that I can sell them (to someone) for a profit later. Same risk vs. Reward.
 
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Unsubscribed :) from this thread and KSF and they can keep my 10 dollar credit . It’ll probably save me 1000’s in the years to come ;)
Have a great weekend everyone ! :thumbsup:
 
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I think the Northwoods that was based on the 56 by GEC was the only one I really got interested in. I did have one of their Norfolks but I gave it away to Glennbad for some work he did, it was too small to be credible and had tame W&T.

All these knives are made by GEC and are variants of their patterns, difference is some costly scales in some instances (not that many). A particular shield, pocket slip, no tube. Otherwise it's the same as any other GEC, carbon steel (there are other steels in the knife world) quite a lot of sink-hole pins on offer...Yet they are thirsted over by many people, hence a lot of people are a) going to miss out as they're limited & bought up instantly (often in 3s or 4s, just to check if you like them right?) b) people will insist on 'having to have' the knife on the secondary market at massively inflated prices c) This fuels the entire circle. Why people want them so badly when they are not really different from any other GEC knife is rather more interesting & legitimate... If they all were exclusive patterns, were made to a higher level of hand finish, came in advanced or various steels, etc then maybe the rationale would be more understandable. I suspect very few get used much and many buyers could be newcomers to the Traditional knife world, that's all perfectly OK but the mania to own these knives is interesting, albeit puzzling to me.

Regards, Will
 
TheFactor said:
Great points and I’ll probably check out the secondary market but won’t pay a mark up that’s for sure .
I’m curious to see if there quality control is any better then there last runs .
Gritty action , blade not closing with out a push at the end of the travel a long with bad transitions from covers to end caps , sharp edges on back spring between covers is what I’ve experienced.
But yes I was crazy enough to try and buy from there last run .
Guess I’m knife crazy and admittedly getting caught up in the supply and demand .
Also just to be clear I’m not saying there all like that but from “my experience”more then not and feels like a crap shoot .
I did get lucky and had a Stag Hawthorne Jack that was a fine example.
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same for me. stag hawthorne jack was one I did want and ended up with one in the long run. Growing up poor has helped me learn that being the first kid on the block with the newest toys can only make you so happy before you get bored and some thing else comes along. I am certainly grateful my circumstances have changed.
 
mrknife said:
same for me. stag hawthorne jack was one I did want and ended up with one in the long run. Growing up poor has helped me learn that being the first kid on the block with the newest toys can only make you so happy before you get bored and some thing else comes along. I am certainly grateful my circumstances have changed.
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I like the way you Think :thumbsup:
And I’m glad life has turned a little more green for you :D Well deserved I’m sure !!
 
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