Recommendation? Trying to lead a friend in the right direction

EngrSorenson

EngrSorenson

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I have a friend who I’ve introduced to the joys of traditional pocket knives and, after a recent camping trip, the joys of hatchets. By extension, axes. (I mean the guy’s an Eagle Scout, so he’s not exactly a stranger to anything with an edge.) He’s got a nice chain saw he likes a lot, but after my recent, reasonably priced purchase of the Council Tools Flying Fox we’ve both witnessed how good economical tools can be. Now he’s interested in getting one or two reasonably priced, reliable axes. He’s mentioned a desire to haft his own head, though I wonder if even I’m knowledgeable enough to help him buy a good used/vintage head. Let’s pretend this isn’t an option for right now, though it might be a way he tries to go.

I figure if a fella had to have one axe, that a boys axe might be the way to go. Versatile, light, and you could trek it out into the woods. It’s user friendly and probably the best way to develop skill. It probably doesn’t excel in any one thing, but it seems like a good choice.

he’s expressed that he would like to split 8 inch rounds, at stove lengths. It might be the primary use. I’m sure folks can do it- I’ve never been an adept splitter unless using a maul. I usually damage the hafts someway or another.

the other route is to guide him to a maul, and he expressed that a hatchet would be a good companion, as its capable of some chopping, small felling and limbing.

I was just curious, what you experienced folks here have to say? Which way would you tell a fairly inexperienced guy to go?

thanks in advance! Looking forward to your opinions.
 
Being able to "see" what's missing from an old axe can sometimes be difficult, especially if you're new to it (or if the pictures on ebay aren't that great). And, it doesn't necessarily have to be in full or nearly full condition to be useful. I just personally don't like putting in a bunch of effort into an axe that's half ground away. Still, it doesn't even have to be all that old to be pretty good so ultimately picking out a vintage axe isn't all that hard and if he isn't out much then what's the harm, even if it's not that great?

Hafts get damaged during splitting, so that first axe he picks out that he later realizes wasn't that great or was kinda worn, PERFECT for splitting. Once he gets pretty good at swinging it, he'll be less and less likely to damage the handle and by then he'll have 6 or 8 more to choose from as the addiction sets in. It's a process.
 
cityofthesouth said:
Hafts get damaged during splitting...
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Is that true? I just figured I was bad at splitting. Obviously overstrikes are poor form, but even sometimes when I think I nailed the split I'd notice I'd dinged up the haft. It's part of the reason I moved towards a maul for splitting, since the thickness of the head tends to prevent the log from getting close to the haft.

cityofthesouth said:
Once he gets pretty good at swinging it, he'll be less and less likely to damage the handle and by then he'll have 6 or 8 more to choose from as the addiction sets in. It's a process.
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This guy is addiction averse, can you believe it? He's got a beautiful zebra wood queen #48 that he bought and he's perfectly happy to not buy another one. I'm almost jealous that he can "be happy" with one quality pocket knife. He's the same way with other things. I suspect whatever he gets now is what he's going to stick with.

Thanks for the advice, friend. Vintage (or at least quality used) might be the way he goes.
 
A boys ax will work around camp & limb work. But not a good splitter. For that type work you need a 3-4 lb. on a 34" haft. More weight and haft length if your splitting hardwood. DM
 
Council has a nice 32 inch jersey with bevels. It’s a great axe to start with.

the used antique heads are great but it’s hard to beat the $ of a new council.

There are ok deals out there on vintage stuff but for a guy that just wants one axe to get started it’s probably not best.

I recently picked up some vintage stuff to hang. All heads were < 40$. Some were great finds . Some ... not so much.
 
David Martin said:
A boys ax will work around camp & limb work. But not a good splitter. For that type work you need a 3-4 lb. on a 34" haft. More weight and haft length if your splitting hardwood. DM
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okay, fair- and I'm sure a lot plays into the ability of a smaller axe to split wood, such as the size of the piece to be split, round vs. already split... etc. So you would recommend getting an axe vs a splitting maul + hatchet, and just make it a hefty axe, am I reading that right? Thanks for your input.

tommytman said:
Council has a nice 32 inch jersey with bevels. It’s a great axe to start with.
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Interestingly enough, he was looking at that specific one.

tommytman said:
There are ok deals out there on vintage stuff but for a guy that just wants one axe to get started it’s probably not best.
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I think there's some screwing around with vintage heads that my buddy might not be prepared to do. Sometimes it's worth going for a sure thing.

tommytman said:
I recently picked up some vintage stuff to hang. All heads were < 40$. Some were great finds . Some ... not so much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the thing I want to avoid. I'm sure there's real gems out there, but I'd probably find the turkeys, given my luck.

Thanks for your input, I'll keep that in consideration.
 
Engr, if your friend likes going camping and does some limb work around the house. Then a boys ax would be useful. If he wants to do more ax work then a heavier ax would work better. If he's going to split juniper then a 3 lb. will work. If he wants to split oak, I would get a 5 lb. Council and some wedges & a sledge or splitting maul to drive them.
I have all of these type axes and use them for different cutting. DM
 
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David Martin said:
Engr, if your friend likes going camping and does some limb work around the house. Then a boys ax would be useful. If he wants to do more ax work then a heavier ax would work better. If he's going to split juniper then a 3 lb. will work. If he wants to split oak, I would get a 5 lb. Council and some wedges & a sledge or splitting maul to drive them.
I have all of these type axes and use them for different cutting. DM
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Thanks DM- I'm glad you fleshed that out a bit more.

It seems to me that all the responses tend to look towards what I'd call a "full size" axe with a 3 1/2 lb head.
I think that's reasonable considering that the purpose is general purpose.
I'll talk to him some more and see what he thinks based on the input of you folks here.
Thanks so much, and keep the responses coming- I love to hear what other users of the tool have to say.
 
EngrSorenson said:
Thanks DM- I'm glad you fleshed that out a bit more.

It seems to me that all the responses tend to look towards what I'd call a "full size" axe with a 3 1/2 lb head.
I think that's reasonable considering that the purpose is general purpose.
I'll talk to him some more and see what he thinks based on the input of you folks here.
Thanks so much, and keep the responses coming- I love to hear what other users of the tool have to say.
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Just tell your buddy to wake up early tomorrow, check craigslist for garage/moving/estate sales that list tools. Tell him to look for sledge hammer, maul, 2 steel wedges and some old fat cheek(high center line) axes . Your Craftsman axe is exactly what he needs to look for (watch out for worn toes). Some people can split wood with Boy's size axes using wrist twist technique. Some love 3.5lbs axes. Some love 5lbs Rafting pattern and finally there are folks who love balance of double bit.
Flying fox is the only axe I bought new(to re-handle it as light Boy's Axe). When it comes to full size axes old stuff price/quality wise easily champions over new Council or Swedish stuff. You cannot go wrong with Kelly Perfect/True Temper, Sager, pre-Mann Collins, Plumb, Vaughan, fat cheek METCo products or high centerline Craftsman like yours( avoid 1970ies ones with flat cheeks)
 
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crbnSteeladdict said:
Just tell your buddy to wake up early tomorrow, check craigslist for garage/moving/estate sales that list tools. Tell him to look for sledge hammer, maul, 2 steel wedges and some old fat cheek(high center line) axes . Your Craftsman axe is exactly what he needs to look for (watch out for worn toes). Some people can split wood with Boy's size axes using wrist twist technique. Some love 3.5lbs axes. Some love 5lbs Rafting pattern and finally there are folks who love balance of double bit.
Flying fox is the only axe I bought new(to re-handle it as light Boy's Axe). When it comes to full size axes old stuff price/quality wise easily champions over new Council or Swedish stuff. You cannot go wrong Kelly Perfect/True Temper, Sager, pre-Mann Collins, Plumb, Vaughan, fat cheek METCo products or high centerline Craftsman like yours( avoid 1970ies ones with flat cheeks)
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It’s occurred to me that he should try mine out and see how he likes it. Maybe that will inform his decision. And it’ll give me some practice. Win-win.
 
A vintage boys axe is perfect for your friend. It's plenty of axe for the 8" rounds you suggest he wants to split. A Kelly Woodslasher would be a great choice. They have no stamp but you can recognize them by the ribs in the eye (more expensive models will have both a stamp and the ridges - i.e. Flint Edge). Find one with minimal poll damage and a strong toe.

And honestly, Council's sport utility boy's axe is a great value in an American made axe.
 
crbnSteeladdict said:
Just tell your buddy to wake up early tomorrow, check craigslist for garage/moving/estate sales that list tools. Tell him to look for sledge hammer, maul, 2 steel wedges and some old fat cheek(high center line) axes . Your Craftsman axe is exactly what he needs to look for (watch out for worn toes). Some people can split wood with Boy's size axes using wrist twist technique. Some love 3.5lbs axes. Some love 5lbs Rafting pattern and finally there are folks who love balance of double bit.
Flying fox is the only axe I bought new(to re-handle it as light Boy's Axe). When it comes to full size axes old stuff price/quality wise easily champions over new Council or Swedish stuff. You cannot go wrong Kelly Perfect/True Temper, Sager, pre-Mann Collins, Plumb, Vaughan, fat cheek METCo products or high centerline Craftsman like yours( avoid 1970ies ones with flat cheeks)
Click to expand...

Every word, spot on.
 
Thank you SP, I appreciate you taking the time to respond! Gauging the reach of my splitting strike has always been a weakness. I think I psyche myself out. I can hit the side of the tree and never miss. I would lean towards a boys axe myself, as a fairly versatile option, but it’s interesting to see all the view points on it.
 
FortyTwoBlades FortyTwoBlades maybe you could chime in on Snow and Nealley vs Council tools? Boys and 3 1/2 pounders? There’s been two mentions of the CT boys and CT Jersey, thus far, but they aren’t the only show in town despite making my favorite hatchet...
 
EngrSorenson said:
Is that true? I just figured I was bad at splitting. Obviously overstrikes are poor form, but even sometimes when I think I nailed the split I'd notice I'd dinged up the haft. It's part of the reason I moved towards a maul for splitting, since the thickness of the head tends to prevent the log from getting close to the haft.



This guy is addiction averse, can you believe it? He's got a beautiful zebra wood queen #48 that he bought and he's perfectly happy to not buy another one. I'm almost jealous that he can "be happy" with one quality pocket knife. He's the same way with other things. I suspect whatever he gets now is what he's going to stick with.

Thanks for the advice, friend. Vintage (or at least quality used) might be the way he goes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, handles get beat up. It's helpful to make sure the handle is slimmer than the head up toward the top so that it acts like the maul you mentioned - a lot of people leave way too much meat under the head of the axe. Sometimes gnarly wood just fights back and you get yourself a new handle scar. But with experience and a few tricks that problem goes away.

I saw a suggestion for a CT Jersey. I think they even make them a little heavier if I'm not mistaken. That would be great. If they are like older Jersey axes they are a little bit more of a wedge all the way to the poll and I personally use an older unmarked Jersey with eye ridges for my primary splitting axe. Lots of contact with the handle, a really deep eye, the ridges (which CT still uses) and an overall wedge shape.
 
cityofthesouth said:
It's helpful to make sure the handle is slimmer than the head up toward the top so that it acts like the maul you mentioned - a lot of people leave way too much meat under the head of the axe.
Click to expand...
Yeah- I was noticing that in my rehaft job on my Craftsman. The handle gets pretty thick right at the shoulder, and occasionally I get some discoloration from rub. Maybe I'll try and peel some of that away. Thanks for the pro tip!

cityofthesouth said:
I saw a suggestion for a CT Jersey. I think they even make them a little heavier if I'm not mistaken. That would be great. If they are like older Jersey axes they are a little bit more of a wedge all the way to the poll and I personally use an older unmarked Jersey with eye ridges for my primary splitting axe. Lots of contact with the handle, a really deep eye, the ridges (which CT still uses) and an overall wedge shape.
Click to expand...
I get the feeling my buddy might be interested in going this way- I know I'm getting the warm fuzzies every time Council Tools' name is invoked. The value seems to be there, and although he's probably going to look into vintage heads regardless, I'm guessing if he gets a new piece of steel delivered in the mail it's going to be the CT Jersey.

I'm sniffing out Snow and Nealley just to make sure there's not a better competitor in a similar price range.
 
Just noticed that S&N sells "replacement" heads. If they made a Connie or a Jersey ....... or something that looked like it came from E&S.









NO you need to STOP spending money, remember?
 
cityofthesouth said:
Just noticed that S&N sells "replacement" heads. If they made a Connie or a Jersey ....... or something that looked like it came from E&S.

NO you need to STOP spending money, remember?
Click to expand...
(I bolded the part that should apply to me.)

I've read up a little on the S&N axes. Looks like they're put together by Amish folks now, but in the early 2000's, they were being made in China, and there was some concern it was an inferior product. Apparently those axes are still out there. You might know all this already, but I did want to see you end up with something you didn't want.
 
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