Two new knives

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Von Hagen Knives

Von Hagen Knives

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May 16, 2006
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Wow! I'm done with these two knives! A lot of work went into these knives. Eventually I will make more and keep one for myself but that won't happen for a while, not until I have time to commit over a week to one knife again.




Thanks for looking,
Rick Palmer
 
It is not cool to straight up copy a makers design without asking....

No I know its not patented, or trademarked. I would like to think that we work on the honor system.

Why not make your own designs?? I like the surface patina that you put on! It is very distinctive!

Tom
 
Beautiful knives! I figure that they'd be incredibly handy around the house and job. The guys at Graham knives created one of the more useful utility patterns out there, and they look stunning that damascus.

Have you asked them if you could sell something which they designed? I don't think that there's a problem with copying a design for personal use, but that is a rather blatant ripoff of the Razel.
 
Von Hagen Knives said:
Wow! I'm done with these two knives! I saw this design on the cover of Blade Magazine and knew that I HAD TO do this. A lot of work went into these knives. You knife collectors out there... I'll bet you don't have one of these yet! I sure wish that I could afford to have one. Eventually I will make more and keep one for myself but that won't happen for a while, not until I have time to commit over a week to one knife again.


These knives are currently available in the KnifeMakers Forum – Fixed Blades: For Sale. Check them out.

Thanks for looking,
Rick Palmer
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i like your dogs i was looking in to getting one but there so pricey
 
Tom Krein said:
It is not cool to straight up copy a makers design without asking....

No I know its not patented, or trademarked. I would like to think that we work on the honor system.

Why not make your own designs?? I like the surface patina that you put on! It is very distinctive!

Tom
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I'm afraid that you may have misunderstood. I was inspired by the cover of Blade Magazine featuring the work of the Graham Brothers. I liked the look of the lopped off blade and went from there. If you look closely at my work vs. their work, you will see that they are actually very different. I am willing to send you many photos of my version of a lopped off blade and you will be able to see the differences: from the grind to the steel type to the width to the handle to the sheath. Really, the whole knife is pretty much different except for the lopped off design.

Knife makers often get inspiration from other knife makers. It would be no different than if I were to make, for example, a French Chef’s Knife. SOMEONE first designed that knife and I see hundreds of them made by hundreds of knife makers. I believe that a knife maker is an artist and that each artist puts their own unique touch to their art.

When someone makes a knife similar to one of mine and proudly shows it to me, I am actually flattered that I gave them that inspiration.

So again, I am sorry if you misunderstood.

Rick
 
Rick,
The blade style is not for me, but your grinds look great! I love the patina you put on your blades. Very nice! Also really like the addition of the small, (1/8" I presume) mosaic pin.:thumbup:
Matt Doyle
 
Peter_E_Ryt said:
Beautiful knives! I figure that they'd be incredibly handy around the house and job. The guys at Graham knives created one of the more useful utility patterns out there, and they look stunning that damascus.

Have you asked them if you could sell something which they designed? I don't think that there's a problem with copying a design for personal use, but that is a rather blatant ripoff of the Razel.
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I would have to agree with Mr. Krein and Peter.
 

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Rick,
I find it interesting that you went back and edited your first post! Unfortunately for you it was quoted in the #4 post!

If you felt so good about your actions why edit out the fact that you said you copied the desigh???

Editing out your posts is a COWARDLY way to act! It makes out responses suddenly be out of context!!!

NICE TRY!!

Tom
 
I think its an instance where many, many people make french chefs knives, but only one company utilizes this specific design. It's hard to not have the design similarities be recognized because of that.

There are those who find it flattering, and those who don't. It's always good to play it on the safe side.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
I think its an instance where many, many people make french chefs knives, but only one company utilizes this specific design. It's hard to not have the design similarities be recognized because of that.

There are those who find it flattering, and those who don't. It's always good to play it on the safe side.
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I am with you on this one. These knives(Graham Bro's) have a unique design that is unlike most knives and when copied lend to scrutiny. I have to go with Mr. Krein on this one(not the coward part). I like your work but even a simple "ok" would have been OK by me. If you all catch my drift. I really dont have any problems otherwise and i like your knives.
 
Tom Krein said:
Rick,
I find it interesting that you went back and edited your first post! Unfortunately for you it was quoted in the #4 post!

If you felt so good about your actions why edit out the fact that you said you copied the desigh???

Editing out your posts is a COWARDLY way to act! It makes out responses suddenly be out of context!!!

NICE TRY!!

Tom
Click to expand...

Wow! I never would have believed in a million years that this would have come from a couple of knives!

I have nothing to hide. I pulled the knives from the For Sale section and I explained here, in the Gallery, why I made them. I DID, in fact, edit what was written here because I realized that by bringing the Graham name into it, I had opened a big can of worms.

I didn't realize that the Graham Brothers were the only ones who were allowed to make these knives. I didn't know that they were the only ones who could grind this type of knife.

I said it before, I was inspired by the design and made them. Again, nothing to hide... I even said that I was inspired by their work.

Tom, I am an honorable man and trust me, I am NOT a coward!!

I don't believe that this is the forum for this and I don't know what else to say other than this... in all the years I have been a knife maker, I have never come across ANYTHING like this.

Rick
 
Von Hagen Knives said:
I don't believe that this is the forum for this and I don't know what else to say other than this... in all the years I have been a knife maker, I have never come across ANYTHING like this.

Rick
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I've been on Bladeforums for four years, and I can tell you This is NOT the forum for this, and calling someone a coward (or acting cowardly, same thing) is not acceptable behavior in this Knifemakers Forum. That is a personnel attack, and I thought we held ourselves to a higher standard than this? If you've got a beef with someone, and want to make it personal, take it behind closed doors. I for one don't want to see it. The rest of us are here to enjoy ourselves, learn something, and maybe make a few bucks. Tom, you said your peace in your first post. We all got the point. There was no need to take it any further, and certainly no need say Rick was acting like a coward.

I'm not making a judgment call on the knives either way. Yes, they were very similar, but we all, even you Tom, take our influence from other makers to some degree. That's a matter for Rick and Josh Graham to sort out.

If you must disagree with someone, by all means do so, but have some tact and be professional. Alot of non-knifemakers frequent these boards to see what we're up to, survey our wares, and perhaps make a purchase now and then. When you as a knifemaker act badly on the forums, it reflects on the rest of us, and I for one don't want it!

I do conduct a great deal of BUSINESS on these forums. Business that pays my bills and puts food on my family's table, and I pay for that right. I will not stand idly by while this forum disintegrates into a name calling hostile place that nobody wants to visit. I've got too much riding on this. I have reported this thread both to the moderators and the owner of BF. They are the forum police, not me. Let them decide.

Rick,
Regardless of what anyone thinks you did in the beginning, you did the right thing after the fact in my opinion. You pulled the knives (which you didn't have to do), and you were very clear as to your intentions.

Guys, If I had a nickel for every knife I've seen out there that resembled a Randall Model 1, I'd be a rich man. If a maker thinks his design is that unique, and doesn't want anyone copying it, he should patent it (ie. the round Spyderhole!). That's why patent laws were passed in the first place.

Scott
 
Rick... Nice Knives!!! If you still have any available, I want one.

Scott - You hit it on the head. I was reading through this forum, and couldn't believe what is being said. Calling someone a coward is not cool, and if you ask me is cowardice.

D. Dub
 
scottang1 said:
I've been on Bladeforums for four years, and I can tell you This is NOT the forum for this, and calling someone a coward (or acting cowardly, same thing) is not acceptable behavior in this Knifemakers Forum. That is a personnel attack, and I thought we held ourselves to a higher standard than this? If you've got a beef with someone, and want to make it personal, take it behind closed doors. I for one don't want to see it. The rest of us are here to enjoy ourselves, learn something, and maybe make a few bucks. Tom, you said your peace in your first post. We all got the point. There was no need to take it any further, and certainly no need say Rick was acting like a coward.

I'm not making a judgment call on the knives either way. Yes, they were very similar, but we all, even you Tom, take our influence from other makers to some degree. That's a matter for Rick and Josh Graham to sort out.

If you must disagree with someone, by all means do so, but have some tact and be professional. Alot of non-knifemakers frequent these boards to see what we're up to, survey our wares, and perhaps make a purchase now and then. When you as a knifemaker act badly on the forums, it reflects on the rest of us, and I for one don't want it!

I do conduct a great deal of BUSINESS on these forums. Business that pays my bills and puts food on my family's table, and I pay for that right. I will not stand idly by while this forum disintegrates into a name calling hostile place that nobody wants to visit. I've got too much riding on this. I have reported this thread both to the moderators and the owner of BF. They are the forum police, not me. Let them decide.

Rick,
Regardless of what anyone thinks you did in the beginning, you did the right thing after the fact in my opinion. You pulled the knives (which you didn't have to do), and you were very clear as to your intentions.

Guys, If I had a nickel for every knife I've seen out there that resembled a Randall Model 1, I'd be a rich man. If a maker thinks his design is that unique, and doesn't want anyone copying it, he should patent it (ie. the round Spyderhole!). That's why patent laws were passed in the first place.

Scott
Click to expand...


Scott,
Just curious if you saw the first post prior to editing? I am about as easy going as can be. I asked a few questions and made my comments. Then the first post was edited. Most of the post was deleated! I made my post based off of those comments. If you deleate your post, all comments after it are difficult to judge.

I have not acted in a hostile way. I have commented on actions and hope I have not affected your business. I am just calling it the way I saw it. I am not trying to be inflammatory here and will stop posting on this thread. Feel free to pm me if you like.

Dub,
I am sorry that I offended you. I wonder if you saw the first post??


Tom
 
Rick,

Very nice! I imagine the grinds were fairly tedious to produce.

The surface finish on the blades goes well with the overall look you have
created.

For those who believe their work is original, I would suggest you check out a copy of; A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor, in all countries and in all times, together with some closely related subjects. By George Cameron Stone. Any design you might conjure up, you will find in this book.
Get real, it's been done before, Fred
 
Von Hagen Knives said:
I didn't realize that the Graham Brothers were the only ones who were allowed to make these knives. I didn't know that they were the only ones who could grind this type of knife.
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They aren't the only ones who are allowed to make that specific grind, and I beleive that in time the design will become more universal because of the uniqueness it currently holds. But, at the moment, it is only really being produced actively by that one company/person, graham knives.

Being able to create a style that defines your company, that creates the public perception that allows instant recognition based solely on an outline geometry is important to that company. It's a type of advertising thats very difficult to acheive, and it's not unreasonable to expect the company to wish to see their design features or specific profiles remain uncopied.

The knife is different enough that its not a direct copy, but because of the uniqueness of that feature and profile, it doesn't hurt to ask the initial maker, or the maker who is most widely known for using such a unique feature if you can use them in your personal knife making.

For the most part, I beleive you'll find that they will be okay with it, though some may wish you to give credit for the design in any sale that contians it, or some other specific stipulation, possibly a slight design alteration. Essentially, it's just covering yourself in the case the initial maker doesn't want the design copied at all.

I beleive that you will find most people are fairly reasonable if you ask them about it first.
 
This reminds me of the latest crap heaped out on Ryan Whittemore. Totally uncalled for here. Like an empty school. No class. I think Mr. Von Hagen is an honorable man who doesn't deserve this. Neither did Ryan.
 
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