Two new knives

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I really don't understand all this discussion. If the chisel grind is nothing new, why can't anybody else make one? Everybody is making drop points that That Mr. Loveless started and tantos (Japanese ??) and nobody is bitching !I like the razel and hope to get one when I can save enough so no disrespect to the Graham bros.For all we know, they also were inspired from something they saw earlier.
 
alejandrino good comment, I think the same as you. I do believe people are inspired by what they see and emulate it, in one way or another.

Also, I do understand the knife maker's aspect of design, that knife makers comes up with a certain way of shaping a handle or guard or blade shape that's distinctive to the way they make there knives. That's their trademark so to speak, I believe we all understand that.

I have also seen on this forum, knife makers asking another how they did something on a knife and the maker responds telling them. There is share information and fellowship amoungst the knife society, the other side being "trademark" of my knives and I making a living from this don't step on my stuff is also present.

I agree with all points of view shared here, I not taking either side.
 
I would like to thank Blade Forums for allowing this thread to continue. I believe it's made a lot of people think. Yes I have taken some low blows and haven't had much sleep in the past few days. To all of you who have sent me private messages and e-mails of encouragement and support, I thank you. To those who I offended when I made these knives and let me know, I thank you.

The bottom line is that the Graham Brothers were not the first ones to grind this blade and no one needs to go to them to request permission to make one. The Graham Brothers, however, DID do something extraordinary. They brought the Chisel Grind knife to the lime light, their work is exceptional. In the past few days I have seen a lot of their work and I can truly see why people love it – I do and made it very clear from the beginning that I was inspired by them. The Graham Brothers were featured in two of the last three Blade Magazines, they are in the center of the spot light. I can see why some of you thought, "Who is he to make those knives?" I see and respect your point of view and I apologize for those who I have offended, I will be more careful in the future. I was in no way trying to offend them or any of you.

I am catching a bit of flack for not calling and asking permission from the Graham Brothers before making these knives. I have never had a personal conversation with either of them but if we had spoken before Josh agreed with Tom and Peter,
Grahamknives said:
I would have to agree with Mr. Krein and Peter.
Click to expand...
he would have seen it was wrong to judge me before getting all the facts.

Tom, I respect the fact that you voiced your opinion and your thoughts but you had no place to judge my moral values or my personal strength (physically or morally). You not only offended me but you offended the very nature of this forum.

As for me, I plan on locking myself in my shop today and I look forward to getting back to what I love doing – making knives. Moving forward, I am excited to see how other knife makers will be inspired by the extraordinary work of the Graham Brothers. Me? I have NO intention of making another chisel knife for a very long time.

To all who I have offended, I am sorry. To the Graham Brothers, I am sorry. Your work is beautiful and you took that chisel knife to new heights through your hard work and determination. In the coming years, no one will look at a chisel knife without thinking of you. You deserve to be where you are.

Thank you again,
Rick Palmer
 
Rick,

Thanks for your post and for explaining your intentions. I don't think any of us is questioning your integrity as a knifemaker or ability to make knives. Like Tom, I was impressed with your finish and would still love to hear how you did it.

The problem here is twofold:

1 - minor problem - you were inspired by the Grahams, but didn't approach things right when posting here...ruffled a few feathers...but I think we'll all get over it. Really not the issue here...despite the fan-flaming going on. I can't speak for Josh or Tom...but I've spoken to both, and this is not their concern.

2 - major problem - you edited your original post removing potentially inflammatory remarks. This puts you in the same category as pot-stirrers and trolls...and casts a shadow of dishonesty over you (whether intentional or accidental).

If you had never edited your first post...this thread would probably have already moved on.

You posted some slightly controversial stuff...Tom reacted (and did try to remain positive - see post #2). You counter-reacted by editing your first post. A simple mistake, yes. I have made this mistake before....and will never to do it again. If I ever edit, it's for grammar/spelling/clarification. Not to hide my foot-in-mouth remarks (which I eat ALL that time).

Editing your first post made Tom K. look like a royal nit...cryin' over nuthin...you took advantage of your position and shifted the blame. That's what set him off. Whether you intended it or not...you set him up. Sure, Tom could easily have just gone back and edited all his posts and gotten rid of any foot-in-mouth-syndrome or potential controversy. But the fact is that he did not (nor ever will, if I know Tom). He's willing to take the heat over anything he says.

Personally, I'd still like to see this die off...but, alas, it seems it will keep getting bumped to the top by those who revel in controversy...eager to say "me too!"

You are welcome to stop by my table at the Blade Show, Rick. I will gladly shake your hand. No hard feelings from me.
 
Nice knives Rick! I can see your own interpretation and I like it.

C'mon guys, take it easy. It's just a chisel with the long side sharpened, you can't seriously be that egotistic to think that it's that damn good -and that design is MINE, MINE, MINE!! It ain't worth getting all pissy about. If you did, you should spend the money to patent it. Today's society is so obsessed with "My this," "My that," we no longer know how to share ideas -unless "You pay ME first." Hell, chisels were invented hundreds of years ago, no one thinks that not a soul, sharpened the long side of a chisel before? Someone probably has in hundreds of years -but it didn't catch on for whatever reason (probably negative, and I won;t mention it here as it is out of context). As knifemakers, we need to work together. Wasn't that the purpose of the Knifemaker's Guild -to freely share ideas?

Nice guys share their designs and experience.

Bob Loveless never went ballistic when every maker in the 70's (and today) were inspired by his work and made their first Dropped Point Hunter. Personally, I think his deisgns are far superior and he's the man for sharing!! :thumbup:

P.S. Keep up the good work Rick! Stay creative and inspired. Don't let people stifle you in your work, bro. Peace.
 
I am now looking at the April 2007 issue of Blade mag. where on page 24 a picture of a CRKT MAK-1 rescue knife designed by James Gowan. It has a chisel point. On page 25 a picture of the Wilson Tactical COP Tool is shown. It also has a chisel ground point and blade. On page 56 is an article about "The Brothers Graham" featuring chisel point knives.

They all have square chisel ground points, they all have at least one blade side edge and they all have a handle on the other end. The basic design elements of all the above mentioned blades are the same.

I think Mr. Hagen is owed a rather large apology from several here who got their panties in wad over nothing.
 
Please go back and carefully read every post again...the issue is not about whether or not the Graham Brothers have sole ownership of the chisel ground tip (an impossibility neither side is willing to push nor defend).



I'm not trying to be a butthead intentionally guys...and I don't hold anything against either of you....but honestly...your posts (45 & 46) are making things worse...not better. :( :confused: :foot:
 
Mr. Koster,

I re-read all the posts and the same theme came up; the idea that I as a knife maker should do the "right" thing and "ask permission" from another maker if I can use "his/her" design elements. This is some personal moral code that is being expected of me whether I like it or not and I don't care for it. Many of the other posters have shown that there really isn't much new under the sun so why bother with this type of scrutiny.

I am a new knife maker who enjoys the sharing of ideas with all things knives that occur on these forums. I too would like to be able to show and sell my wares on these forums someday. But if it looks like I may go through a gauntlet put up by self-imposed designer police checking every design element of my knives, I may reconsider.

I can find nothing wrong with Mr. Hagens' original post whether or not he edited it. If I found that Mr. Hagen had been influenced by one of my "designs" and then made a copy of it, I would be flattered and would consider asking him to collaberate on some of my knives with his excellent patina finish and we both could make money together! ( ...and how does he put that finish on there?!!!..)
 
not to get off topic but I wanted to say that the razel design is a design most knife makers would have never just sketched out and made. Sure, its not a brand new design but most of us would be SO unsure about its acceptance that we would never have gone through with the pushing of its design like the 2 brothers have done. For that they have earned my repect in the fullest.

And to "Do the right thing" doesnt just fall in the knifemaking craft but should be held high in all creative outlets.

Right now I have music that I wrote and performed through an independant record lable at an early age and yes...thanks to the internet, you my friend can buy those recordings at walmart.com and I get not one red dime. Do I care about the small royalties...no, thats not what upsets me. What upsets me is that something I created and believed in, is withought my concent helping someone else make a fast buck. Doing the right thing isnt always the easiest thing to do and I always say, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it.....the right thing that is....
 
I think everyone has had their say in this matter and enough "johnny-come-lately's" have had the chance to pile in with their priceless advice.

Consider this a lesson.

I'm locking this thread. If someone feels it is worthy of more rehashing, start another thread in the appropriate forum.
 
I said I was not going to respond to this thread again, but figured this would be better here than in a PM to Rick. I have been thinking about this a lot.

First I would like to say I am SORRY for the choice of words in some of my posts! I did not mean to imply that you were a coward. I am sorry if you took it as an attack on your moral or physical character, it was not meant as such. I was only commenting on one single action.:foot:


I would also like to clear the water and say that yes, I consider the Grahams as friends of mine. That is no secret. Why did I make the first post?? I have seen the hard work and and advertising dollars spent in making this design a popular design.


I have been called a coward and bully for my posts in this thread. I would disagree. I new it was going to be controversial when I first posted, just never saw it going down this road. Thats okay, sometimes you just have to take it on the chin.

As far as being a bully, IF you look at my posts you will see I have not acted in an intimidating way. I will admit I over reacted when you edited your post.

When on a forum we only have our "typed word" to go by and if you edit out your post for what ever reason, I see it as going back on your word. This was my major problem, I have seen this done in a deceitful manor in the past.

I was not familiar with your work prior to this post Rick. I went back and took a look....you do NICE work. Your surface patina is very distinctive and a nice touch.

Once again, Sorry to have offended! Take care and if you are at Blade look me up.

Tom
 
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