Two new toys - really cool!

Chiro, that's the most misguided argument I've ever heard. I'm truly surprised how far off topic this thread has gone.

Without fanning the flames too much, here's my opinion. I find many knives aesthetically pleasing, beautiful even. I'm quite fond of daggers, which are weapons designed to do nothing more than kill or maim other humans. Knives can make excellent weapons, but even better tools. How many times have we all used this argument against the sheeple? Like knives, these hooks could no doubt be used irresponsibly. However, don't project your prejudices onto an inanimate object.

On Topic: Nice hooks man, very rustic looking.
 
If you feel that's a misguided argument then that's fine. Look into how the animals are treated and make your own choice.
 
Those are cool souvenirs and will probably be relics of a bygone way of life in not too many years. Regardless of one's feelings about whether they're cruel or not, they do exist and represent an exotic and interesting culture.
 
Chiro75 said:
If you feel that's a misguided argument then that's fine. Look into how the animals are treated and make your own choice.
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I understand that you feel strongly about animal mistreatment, but I fail to see the connection between the irresponsible actions of those who mistreat animals and a tool. There's no reason to paint all mahouts with the same brush. Using your logic, I would be justified in saying that no one should carry a knife because people have used them in the past to inflict harm on others.
 
At first I thought they were gross, but then the reasoned voices on this thread brought me to my senses. :) Thanks for posting the pics, santi.

Wanting to help animals is a great goal, but you might as well start at home. If you eat meat that's not coming direct from a family farm, you're causing far more suffering to animals than the elephants suffer. And I say this as a meat eater, who's just as guilty as the rest of us.
 
Sheesh, this thread has gotten weird.... I'm going to move it to Gadgets & Gear, since they're not knives. Let's see what the gearheads make of them....
 
Many years ago Popular Science Magazine ran an article about how vegetables scream when their neighboring vegetables are picked. In particular, they conducted tests using high tech electronic equipment on tomatoes.

If animals suffer when slaughtered, shellfish experience pain when steamed (according to PETA), and vegetables get so upset that they scream, then our choices for food are dramatically reduced.

Sorry this thread got so off topic but sometimes I think the whole animal rights movement has gone wacky.

PS - I like the hooks. :)
 
digdeep said:
Many years ago Popular Science Magazine ran an article about how vegetables scream when their neighboring vegetables are picked.
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Ayiiiieeee! Ayiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeee!


drsmith3.jpg
 
Getting back to the heart of this thread................

Santi, thanks for the cool pics. It's always interesting to see tools used in/by other cultures. I bet they use them for other things besides handling their elephants. It looks like a very servicable pick or log hook.

Paul
 
do they serve free ranging elephants at fogos or are they farm raised, how about the bananas.... are they free ranging :confused: :confused:
 
PWork said:
Getting back to the heart of this thread................

Santi, thanks for the cool pics. It's always interesting to see tools used in/by other cultures. I bet they use them for other things besides handling their elephants. It looks like a very servicable pick or log hook.

Paul
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or could be used as a HOG HOOK :cool:
 
Ritt said:
"Kind of like how a puppy who has been beaten will shrink away from you as you reach out to pet him."

Or perhaps like a well-trained animal will respond to voice commands. I admit I don't know exactly where the line is crossed in elephant training from training to abuse, but I wouldn't equate all training with abuse.
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uhm... yea, but I didn't need to beat my dog with a stick to get him to obey commands... I have alsoworked with some K-9 units that would tear a person to pieces if ordered to do so, and never have I seen a handler ever use more then a stern voice command to control their dog.

this topic has moved away from the main point here. Very cool looking tools you have, although I don't agree with what they were used for...

And if you think I'm a liberal...HAHAHA... I am the first one to kick in a door if I think the bad guy is in there and have no problem with all the crap thats being held in guantanamo bay, abu garib or anywhere else, but people who use fear and pain to "train animals" is one thing I cannot condone in any form. :mad:
 
Elephants are funny animals. Perhaps you have heard the story of the elephant and the mouse and who was afraid of whom.

When I was in SE Asia years ago I saw the elephant workers tying a small string around each elephants leg and attaching it to a small peg driven in the ground. I was so amused by the sight I had to inquire. The handler said that they did this at night after work or the elephants wouldn't get enough sleep. Seems they are all concerned that one of their buddy elephants might get a bite to eat and they would be left out. With everyone tied to their little peg they didn't worry about it. I believe the story because neither the peg or little rope could hold the smallest of these worker elephants.

P.S. It was something to see them working together to move huge trees.

To toss some knife info into the discussion the workers had a small pocket sized folder that they said they used to lance any abcesses the elephants developed and to dig out grist stuck between their teeth. Gotta keep your elephants happy if you want a good day's work out of them!
 
Quick question: show of hands, how many of you have ever dealt with an elephant first-hand? Petting one at the zoo doesn't count. Watching a program on Animal Channel doesn't either.

My point is this: it's really quite arrogant to judge something you don't understand and have no experience with.
 
Gollnick is always a voice of reason...good point there

Torture and discipline is different. There seems to be quite a few armchair elephant trainers here in this thread.

Santi lives in Thailand and has met these elephant trainers and probably understands how the tool is used. I wonder how many people here have seen those tools being used rather than just reading something from the internet.
 
I've kind of become a lily livered hypocrite in some ways. I cringe when I see a dead animal on the side of the road. I don't hunt anymore, I can't watch the animal planet shows about animal cruelty.

But I still eat meat. I grew up and live in a hunting culture though, and I don't have a problem with ethical hunters. Its kind of weird, I get ill when I see someone hitting an animal, but boxing, wrestling and MMA are my favorite sports. I don't hunt anymore, but still like guns, knives, etc.

Do I have a point? Well, maybe, maybe not. Probably a bit in a horses mouth can do an awful lot of damage if yanked around but its okay if used properly. I know that when I trained my Ridgeback, I used a choker collar and you can kill a dog with one if you wanted to but with a quick pop it doesn't seem cruel. The hooks probably are capable of doing damage even on an elephant, but if used properly, probably are not cruel.
 
Since I have no worries....

SANTI, THOSE THINGS ARE FREAKING AWESOME LOOKING MAN!!! GREAT SCORE!!! I'd like to see any back alley elephant gangs mess with you now ;)
 
Glad I did not post pics or talk about a neat slipjoint trapper I acquired recently -- the spey blade on this knife might have caused an all-out electronic riot based on some of the replies in this thread. :confused:
 
What if someone posted a pic of a new pair of spurs they got? Would we all get mad at him and tell him he abuses animals, and that spurs dont belong on this board? Of all the people on the internet, I thought that the folks of BFC would not freak out over a "scary" looking tool.
 
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