Two new toys - really cool!

This has been one of the silliest most knee jerk threads I have ever seen. Really agree with Gollnick but I will be more blunt..I you don't know what you are talking about..don't. And if you want to see evil looking implements that serve a good purpose..go to the dentist.


Gollnick said:
Quick question: show of hands, how many of you have ever dealt with an elephant first-hand? Petting one at the zoo doesn't count. Watching a program on Animal Channel doesn't either.

My point is this: it's really quite arrogant to judge something you don't understand and have no experience with.
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This is a ridiculous thread. Elephants are huge animals that are entirely capable of protecting themselves. Moreso than any other animal on the earth. Causing it a small amount of pain to receive compliance should not be condemned. The animals are also shown lots of kindness and affection. But the fact that the elephant could literally turn its mahout into pudding makes the argument for cruelty faulty.
The elephant hooks are entirly appropirate for this forum. I would like a pair, amybe I could use them on my dog, or my wife, or kids. Then they would learn the meaning of discipline!
 
'I have alsoworked with some K-9 units that would tear a person to pieces if ordered to do so, and never have I seen a handler ever use more then a stern voice command to control their dog.'

You obviously have never seen the training that goes into coercing that dog to obey its handler. Any dog that would actually 'tear a man to pieces' is going to need a little bit more intense training than you can get at petsmart. This same dog that can do a live bite will be very willing to take on its handler. Especially with the breeds of dog used by most K-9 units. That dog that obeys so well to a voice command, especially in the heat of battle? I would be willing to bet that there is an 80% chance the dog had an e-collar (shock collar) on when you saw it.
 
Rhys MacArthur said:
That dog that obeys so well to a voice command, especially in the heat of battle? I would be willing to bet that there is an 80% chance the dog had an e-collar (shock collar) on when you saw it.
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obeys in the heat of battle? yup, been there, done that... they will obey voice commands, but only from their handler... and shock collar? I'll bet you 100% you will never see an operational K-9 in the field with a shock collar...choke chains yes, shock collars? no. And yes I have seen K-9 training first hand. I went through school for arson and bomb K-9 training myself, which took place at the very same place where the other dogs get trained for patrol. And no, I never saw any dogs getting beaten with a stick or anything of the sort.

and like I said... I saw first hand the training that they go through.
 
PSAK9.org
I am a training decoy. You already lose as I have seen, as in patched up a guy and transported him to the hospital in my ambulance, a K9 unit where the dog was juiced in the field. Granted, this dog was bad, the suspect would have died without medical intervention. But I later talked to the K9 officer about training and he related to me that it is quite common for a K9 to be 'juiced' in the field. Not all dogs need this, but in some cases it is necessary.
 
Then I offer my humble apology to you.
I have worked with K-9 units from NYPD, Nassau County PD, Suffolk PD, NY state troopers, NYC corrections, Westchester PD, FBI, ATF, and the US Marshals, and never once did any of them ever have shock collars.
When I went through training I was told by the staff that shock collars were "a shortcut to proper training" and they weren't used in the field due to the fact they can malfunction and can be activated by many common items like garage door openers and cordless phones.

If you have seen first hand a shock collar on an operational K9 then I withdraw my previous statment, but every one I work with has told me they don't use them for numerous reasons.
 
"When I went through training I was told by the staff that shock collars were "a shortcut to proper training" and they weren't used in the field due to the fact they can malfunction and can be activated by many common items like garage door openers and cordless phones."

There is no shortcut to proper training. An e-collar is just one tool in an arsenal. The dog must first understand its job completely before the e-collar is introduced. If it does not, then there can be no effective use of the collar as the dog will not understand what is being asked of it and not know what to do. It is a common myth that the collars can be operated by all sorts of things, and their signal even reproduced intentionally for nefarious purposes. THis is not the case, I have done a lot of research on this and even talked to several of the programmers and techinicans at DT systems and Tri-Tronics. They have assured me that it is close to impossible to get interference, and they have never heard of a case of it. Also, just as difficult to use a purposely activated signal to try and screw with the dog.
I came to protection training from a background in bird dogs, and my family has always used e-collars on thier bird dogs. SO it was not much of a stretch for me to start using it on my dog for protection work. SO far I am very happy with the results. I like the fact that it removes the correction from me, and the fact that my dog is extremely sensitive to electricity. Sharpened prongs, choke, genital cuff, schlagstock (beatdown stick), were all tried when I was forced to use force with my dog. Not until using electricity did I have reliable results with a minimum of force. SO I like it!


Sorry for hijacking this thread!
 
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