Two SOB's

A receipt proves nothing except you spent money at the post office on a certain day. It does not have even the recipient's address on it. As a minimum, delivery confirmation is required if you want any kind of proof. Better buy insurance unless you want to be responsible for the cost of the knife. How the seller passes that on to the buyer doesn't matter, but when its lost in transit, it is the seller's responsibility to deliver a product, or like you said Don, its a Federal crime to fail to deliver on a transaction that has gone through the USPS.
 
I am relatively new to this board, but, I can tell you that, Don, if all sellers share the same attitude towards the the buyer that you do, they will not be around much longer. How do I know? Well, here it is:
1. I hold a modest degree in marketing. Rule #1? Keep the customer happy, no matter what the cost. On average a happy customer will tell three people, an unhappy one will tell ten. And your choice is?......
2. I have been a purchasing agent for over 15 years. Any vendor can be replaced in a heartbeat. You choose your business, so walk the walk. Otherwise, I'll spend my money elsewhere.
3. It's the right thing to do. The rules have changed from, "Buyer's responsibilty" to "Buyer beware". If you want the business, sometimes you have to bite the bullet to get it.
4. Most business analysts have predicted that between 25% and 50% of all e-commerce businesses will be gone in one year, mostly because of service issues.
So..... where are ya gonna land?
 
I wonder if I can hassle these guys via the Postal Service/some other authority from here in Australia? I think its a lost cause and I'll just have to include Elyria, OH and Oceanside, NY on any trip I make to the States for some serious ass whupp!
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Originally posted by Senator:
Lemme see if I understand you, Don. You order a knife from Dealer A for $100 (including insurance.) They tell you it shipped on Monday and cash in the money order you sent. The knife never shows up. Dealer A send you a copy of the insurance stub and tells you, "Good luck." You're happy with the outcome of that transaction? You never received a knife, but are out $100 and many hours of your time dealing with the postal authorities. You might get your money back six months from now. Will you gladly do business with Dealer A again?

It's a good thing that the dealers in this thread have stated that it's their problem until the knife arrives safe and sound in the customer's hands. How long do you think a knife dealer (or Eddie Bauer, Land's End, or J.C Penney) would last with business practices like that?
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Apparently you have a break down in your logic chain Kelly...for one thing, who pays for the insurance has nothing to do with what you posted above in an attempt to just make me look wrong. Now does it?

Let's make this perfectly clear right now, I am not a Dealer, and usually not a "Seller," but am often a Buyer...and it is my responsibility to tell that person who is Selling an item, who is going to incur an extra expense for insurance, that I wish to have the package insured, eh? WHo am I to demand that the Seller fork out the extra money? That is my responsibility, it is part of shipping & handling charges by many, and that is fine. The original issue was who pays for it and that was not reflected in your last post.

If I sold you a knife Kelly, and you refused to pay me the extra say, $3.00 for $300.00 insurance...then I would tell you plainly, "I'm not taking another $3.00 off the knife Kelly, if you do not pay for the insurance, you are on your own Pal."

Now, if we agreed and you gave me money for insurance, and the package was lost, I would probably say if it were Priority Mail which is 1-3 day delivery...give it 14 days for the boneheads to deliver it. If you received no package after that time, then I would send you your money order or check back to you. Priority Mail at my expense as I would not have spent your money as soon as it got in my hands. Then I would make the insurance claim and of course I would not like it, don't be silly.

Now, remember, if you get ripped off, I said to go through the Postmaster. Please read...

This is very timely as my mailman dropped a Priority Mail package right on my steps today while I was napping. It plainly has "INSURED" stamped on it with a delivery confirmation tag on it. When he dropped it, he had to scan it, that is wrong because I never signed for the thing.

Eddie Bauer, etc., that is an interesting red herring as you usually get your stuff insured as insurance is factored into S&H charges, try again.
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Don, Don, Don... You and I know from past experience that the two of us can go back and forth for the next 100 years and never get anywhere. If I told you the sky was blue, you'd deny the heck out of it. For two people who's political/social/religious philosophies are so much alike, I can't ever remember getting into a discussion with you where we ended up agreeing in the end. (shrug) I dunno...

My bottom line is this: Unless I specifically ask that the seller NOT insure my package, I will not take responsibility for the package until the item arrives safe in my hands in the condition described. I can't remember the last time I purchased a knife - production or custom - from an internet dealer who insured the package. Unless there's some standard amount of insurance through the delivery company, I don't think I've ever received a package with an insurance sticker on it (except from a private individual.) Do I care? Not particularly. If the knife never arrives, or arrives in an unsatisfactory condition, I'll return it for a refund. I will not pay for a product that is anything other than what I ordered.

When I ship knives, I ship through the USPS. Probably 95% of those packages go by Priority Mail. All knives over $50 in value get insured. (The only reason I don't insure some knives under $50 is that the PO doesn't use the same insurance form for items less than $50, an it's not readily available for me to grab a handlfull to take home with me to fill out at my leisure. Also, I invariably get the same grumpy old guy who takes 10 minutes to figure out what the heck's going on when I ask for less than $50 worth of insurance, so I usually take the risk. It's a time vs. money thing...) At any rate, I insure the packages so that if they get lost or damaged in transport, I will get reimbursed. Notice that I did not say that the buyer will get reimbursed. I always hold any funds until I get confirmation from the buyer that the knife arrived in the condition they expected.

As for which party pays, like I said before the buyer always pays whether he realizes it or not. If I offer free shipping and insurance, those costs are already built into the selling price. It's all marketing. If a seller negotiates with me to pay the shipping/insurance costs, it means that I was willing to come down on the stated selling price by the exact same amount, as long as the buyer pays shipping. Using your $300 knife example, if I was willing to take $300 for the knife with me picking up the $10 in shipping and insurance costs, I'd also be willing to take $290 with you picking up shipping. It's all semantics really.

You can argue until you're blue in the face, but I still won't expect people who purchase my knives to take responsibility for everything from the time I drop the knife off at the post office unless they specifically ask me to pass on insurance.

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Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice
 
Wow, my heads spinning!

The way I figure it, the price is the price, if the Seller states in his post, plus shipping then the Buyer knows there will be a little more, if it doesn't say anything about coverage...that to me says the Seller is covering his GOODS to me the Buyer, if I don't receive anything there is no way the onus comes to me to make good the Seller's shipping method! No way!
When I sell or trade a knife, I feel/am responsible for that knife to get to the person I'm dealing with, period, it's up to me to make sure it arrives safely and everything is jake, if not, I go to the post office, as I use them the most, and get a tracer going on said lost item, the people I've dealt with know that I'm a worry wart about things shipping....it's pretty simple really, but back to Poor Ferrets case, this guy says he shipped it and now is either out of town or just plain ignoring him and that is not right!

Ferret, what size a can does that wupass come in from where you live?

G2
 
Hey Ferret, if and when you open that can of Whup-ass in Ohio get 48 bucks worth for me, hell I'll even buy ya a Fosters...
 
You too, huh? I'll be sure to mention it if I get time to call both of these mongrels (Olympics on, busy), in addition to mentioning their questionable lineage etc
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I always use UPS for my knife deliveries. I always send it out on Monday (less time in there system) and always send it second day air and I get a very important tracking number. I go directly to there shipping office which is a 5 minute drive from my house. I always insure the package and it rarely costs me over $10.00. When I sell knives (usually high end customs) I feel that it is my responsibility to make sure the package is insured and arrives as agreed.

I always sell my knives with a complete money back guarantee if the customer is unhappy for any reason. Some times when you see a knife in person that you bought over the internet via a picture, it isn't the same knife that you saw in your head. Been there done that!

I had a knife returned to me this spring because the customer didn't like it when he received it. It ended up being a 3 way deal and the knife came back to me from a guy other than who I sold it too. No big deal to me, I want them as well as me to be happy with a deal. So he sent me my knife back and when I received it I sent him a money order back for his $400.00. He never received it and it was my fault because I sent it and relied on the USPS! So now the games begin. I went to the bank and after 2 weeks put a stop payment order on the lost money order. I then sent him another money order for $400.00 via UPS second day air which he received in 2 days. I now, through my bank had to wait 3 months prior to getting my money back for the money order to see if it surfaced which it didn't. Very valuable lesson learned on my part! I will "NEVER" ship anything ever again via the United States Postal System!
 
I just started selling knives I would never send a knife without Insurance! I think its the sellers job to do this unless like THE CHIEF say's and is willing to cover it!The extra insurance dosent cost that much more!!
 
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