Ultimate quench oil for 5160

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chad2 said:
like i have been told before on this forum by very knowledgeable people the manufacturer specs are not for knives they are for tools or springs which is not going to be the same heat treat as a knife.
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Maybe tempering and as quenched HRC points but stuff like austenitizing and curie-point temperatures don't flip-flop around with variations in the cross-sections.
 
chad2 said:
i am not saying that you guys are wrong but you are saying that i am wrong. 5160 can be heat treat at 1525-1550 degrees F i do 1550 to ensure it reaches austenite temperature. but everyone has there preferances :)
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chad2 said:
another website link that says 1500-1550 degrees

http://www.thedirtforum.com/heattreat.htm
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You can also heat treat 5160 at 1575-1600F, but I do not suggest it. You are not wrong in HT'g at 1550F if you are satisfied with the results. I'm pretty sure Ed C. uses a torch to heat treat.
 
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this is what i dont get about some of the people on this forum you guys jump at the fact to tell people they are wrong but when you see facts saying that you may not be wrong but that i am write also you dont care you still fight your argument. we are both write! :)

not talking about you rick i know that you are just trying to help

my preferance is 1550 i am not wrong.
 
chad2 said:
this is what i dont get about some of the people on this forum you guys jump at the fact to tell people they are wrong but when you see facts saying that you may not be wrong but that i am write also you dont care you still fight your argument. we are both write! :)

not talking about you rick i know that you are just trying to help

my preferance is 1550 i am not wrong.
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Hey lots of us are listening and weighing the evidence! Thanks for the contribution! :D
 
Rick Marchand said:
You can also heat treat 5160 at 1575-1600F, but I do not suggest it. You are not wrong in HT'g at 1550F if you are satisfied with the results. I'm pretty sure Ed C. uses a torch to heat treat.
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yes i think you are right about him using a torch you are also right about hardening temperature is from 1500-1600 degress
 
Rick Marchand said:
You can also heat treat 5160 at 1575-1600F, but I do not suggest it. You are not wrong in HT'g at 1550F if you are satisfied with the results. I'm pretty sure Ed C. uses a torch to heat treat.
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if he uses a torch, how would he know that the heat is ? +/- 100 degrees is too close to eyeball

regardless, this is way off topic and I shouldnt have mentioned it
 
I find discussions fascinating and drives me to look for the answer myself. This forum is a great resource to bounce questions off of and see what others have learned. Sure a lot of folk claim something is not correct, some of them can point to a pile of blades to prove their point, some point to a paper.

What is important is the discussion and what we take away from it.

Many can master fire and steel and never master their emotions :)
 
one thing i can say is that if you are using 5160 and canola oil make sure you are not quenching knives under 1/8" in thickness other wise it can be disasterous 1/8" and above will be fine.

so if you are making kitchen knives that have a spin thickness of 1/16" then yes you should adjust your temperatures to maybe around 1525 degrees less likely for a blade to crack in the oil.
 
SShepherd said:
if he uses a torch, how would he know that the heat is ? +/- 100 degrees is too close to eyeball

regardless, this is way off topic and I shouldnt have mentioned it
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LOL..... Shep went for the cheese..... snap!
 
Ed used a torch in his DVD Basic Bladesmithing and differentially hardened (edge quenched) in "veterinary grade mineral oil" on a swiss cheese drilled aluminum plate to control quench depth. He's pretty clearly just eyeballing it, and I think he's giving simple temp numbers for people to remember. A basic bladesmith isn't going to be controlling temps to +/- 5 degrees, they're just shooting for color or nonmagnetic, giving it a minute more and then into the grease, usually. I'm sure he picked 5160 because it's more forgiving than most steels.. but it has more potential than get it orange and dunk it, if you've got the gear and experience I think. I've been watching his DVDs a lot lately, especially his damascus ones.. trying to get a refresher.
 
chad2 said:
one thing i can say is that if you are using 5160 and canola oil make sure you are not quenching knives under 1/8"in thickness other wise it can be disasterous 1/8" and above will be fine.

so if you are making kitchen knives that have a spin thickness of 1/16" then yes you should adjust your temperatures to maybe around 1525 degrees less likely for a blade to crack in the oil.
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The risk of distortion is always greater in thinner cross sections, yes.
 
chad2 said:
another website link that says 1500-1550 degrees

http://www.thedirtforum.com/heattreat.htm
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This bears repeating.

"The problem with information you find on the internet is that it is frequently incorrect"

Benjamin Franklin

I've had welders tell me they found it on the internet you can weld stainless steel to carbon steel with 7018 welding rods. For the home barbeque grill, I'm sure it works fine. For the structural connections I was required to bend test, not so much. Anyone can post anything they like on the internet. That doesn't mean it's true. Be very careful where you get your information. Do you know why the recommended temperature is what it is?

Being a little more practical, 25 degrees one way or the other probably won't hurt anything for knives. People harden 5160 in forges quite often. There is no way they can tell the temperature with in 25 degrees without some electrical help.
 
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AVigil said:
I find discussions fascinating and drives me to look for the answer myself. This forum is a great resource to bounce questions off of and see what others have learned. Sure a lot of folk claim something is not correct, some of them can point to a pile of blades to prove their point, some point to a paper.

What is important is the discussion and what we take away from it.

Many can master fire and steel and never master their emotions :)
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I really don't get why you posted;

some of them can point to a pile of blades to prove their point, some point to a paper.

everything on the internet is "on paper". ANY ht recipe listed by the ASM, or a manuf. is a starting point only and is used as a reference. Anyone who makes knives and does their own HTing knows this. Thermocouples may be off and need calibration. altitude can case differences in temp readout.
Everyone started "on paper"
 
me2 said:
This bears repeating.

"The problem with information you find on the internet is that it is frequently incorrect"

Benjamin Franklin

I've had welders tell me they found it on the internet you can weld stainless steel to carbon steel with 7018 welding rods. For the home barbeque grill, I'm sure it works fine. For the structural connections I was required to bend test, not so much. Anyone can post anything they like on the internet. That doesn't mean it's true. Be very careful where you get your information. Do you know why the recommended temperature is what it is?

Being a little more practical, 25 degrees one way or the other probably won't hurt anything for knives. People harden 5160 in forges quite often. There is no way they can tell the temperature with in 25 degrees without some electrical help.
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lol not incorrect. my preferance over others, i was not the one saying you guys are wrong. ;)
 
me2 said:
This bears repeating.

"The problem with information you find on the internet is that it is frequently incorrect"

Benjamin Franklin

I've had welders tell me they found it on the internet you can weld stainless steel to carbon steel with 7018 welding rods. For the home barbeque grill, I'm sure it works fine. For the structural connections I was required to bend test, not so much. Anyone can post anything they like on the internet. That doesn't mean it's true. Be very careful where you get your information. Do you know why the recommended temperature is what it is?

Being a little more practical, 25 degrees one way or the other probably won't hurt anything for knives. People harden 5160 in forges quite often. There is no way they can tell the temperature with in 25 degrees without some electrical help.
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i mean how many good knife makers can be wrong about this. http://www.engnath.com/harden.htm
 
Bob Engnath was such a nice man and really willing to go the extra mile. I use to go to his shop in Glendale Ca. and talk with him for hours and watch him work on swords and knives and scrimshaw. He has a lot information he left behind and he really was one of the good ones who knew what he was talking about.
 
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