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Ultimate Survival Knife, any suggestions?
- Thread starter crazy50joe
- Start date
I really like the Strider Knife concept. Built like a tank! Ultimate Survival Knife? One thing...the guys at strider have been there and back and know what it takes to get the job done....of course my knives are a lot prettier, built out of the same stuff, and heat treated by the same guy, but thats beside the point!
You don't even need a stove. A friend of mine hiked from from Mexico to Canada on the Pacific Crest and after the first two weeks, sent all his cooking gear home. He lived mostly on dried food for the entire trip, which was 6 mos. Fruit, nuts, and roasted soybeans and supplemented his diet with wild foods along the way. He also made the occasional foray into town to the post office to pick up his food packet, get a warm meal, and raid a grocery store.
Backpacking sounds like a great opportunity to defoliate the wilderness with a big knife but if you've ever spent more than 3 days in the mountains with a 50-60 lb plus pack, thoughts will quickly turn to blisters and frequent rests, and obtaining/carrying fresh water. All the toys you brought with you to enjoy the wilderness with will get heavier and heavier as your trip progresses. The real danger on thru trails usually isn't getting lost (although I've been on stretches of the Appalachian that weren't well marked and I've run into people that were truly lost, mostly because they couldn't read a simple map or use a compass), but keeping your energy level up. If you overwork yourself, you can quickly sweat yourself to death via stroke, heart attack, or hypothermia.
BTW, thru hiking isn't the way to start (of course, I realize I don't know what your background is). But if you are just starting out, I'd suggest doing lot's of weekend trips first. And in general, take half of what you think you need and go light, light, light. Of course, there is going light and then going ultralight. To see how an experienced thruhiker goes ultralight, check this page out:
http://www.monmouth.com/~mconnick/
Note that the only knife he carries is a Swiss Army Classic! Before you go, you really have to ask yourself what it is you want to be doing out there. One thing I can say is that I've been backpacking for somewhere around 35 years, taken numerous 2+ week trips in wilderness and never needed a big blade on a groomed trail. By the same token, I've also done many primitive hikes and I usually had a hatchet of some sort to do my chopping but a big knife under those circumstances would be nice as well. Again, my point is, if you want to play you have to pay and the cost is WEIGHT, and after the third or fourth switchback, it will become readily apparent.
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
Backpacking sounds like a great opportunity to defoliate the wilderness with a big knife but if you've ever spent more than 3 days in the mountains with a 50-60 lb plus pack, thoughts will quickly turn to blisters and frequent rests, and obtaining/carrying fresh water. All the toys you brought with you to enjoy the wilderness with will get heavier and heavier as your trip progresses. The real danger on thru trails usually isn't getting lost (although I've been on stretches of the Appalachian that weren't well marked and I've run into people that were truly lost, mostly because they couldn't read a simple map or use a compass), but keeping your energy level up. If you overwork yourself, you can quickly sweat yourself to death via stroke, heart attack, or hypothermia.
BTW, thru hiking isn't the way to start (of course, I realize I don't know what your background is). But if you are just starting out, I'd suggest doing lot's of weekend trips first. And in general, take half of what you think you need and go light, light, light. Of course, there is going light and then going ultralight. To see how an experienced thruhiker goes ultralight, check this page out:
http://www.monmouth.com/~mconnick/
Note that the only knife he carries is a Swiss Army Classic! Before you go, you really have to ask yourself what it is you want to be doing out there. One thing I can say is that I've been backpacking for somewhere around 35 years, taken numerous 2+ week trips in wilderness and never needed a big blade on a groomed trail. By the same token, I've also done many primitive hikes and I usually had a hatchet of some sort to do my chopping but a big knife under those circumstances would be nice as well. Again, my point is, if you want to play you have to pay and the cost is WEIGHT, and after the third or fourth switchback, it will become readily apparent.
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
heck, since everyone else is, I will put in my $0.02 also. If it was one from my collection, I would bring my TOPS SteelEagle 7" blade. This is a knife whose toughness you CANNOT beat, and it has a finger cutout that makes it feel like a subhilt fighter, and it is as tough as rocks (not as tough as Striders, probably but as tough as any other). I also recommend it because it has a specially made saw back that cuts like crazy AND serrations, so you've got a lot more versitility. www.topsknives.com.
OR I would consider the nearindestructable TAC11 (11" overall) made by Tom Johanning. This knife is incredible, and it's hande won't wear your hand out.
OR I would consider the nearindestructable TAC11 (11" overall) made by Tom Johanning. This knife is incredible, and it's hande won't wear your hand out.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2000
- Messages
- 201
Like usual, I agree with Hoodoo.I Have been backpacking for years in such places as Yosimite, Grand Canyon, Kings Canyon, Sequoia National Forrest and many misc. areas of the John Muir and Pacific Crest Trail. The trick to enjoying a backpacking trip is going light ( within reason), especially on long trips. As far as Knives go, a large locking blade SAK is all you need. If you would like one more knife, try a Cold Steel Master hunter which has a 4-1/2" blade. If I am out for a 5 day trip my pack weighs about 33lbs. After that add about 1.5lbs of food per day and a little more fuel for the MSR stove. Large knives are for extreme survival situations. Either of the knives I mentioned will do 99.99% of what you need. Save the money on the expensive knives and buy some top quality light weight backpacking gear ( i.e. Western Mountaineering sleeping bag, Sierra Designs tent, ect....)
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2000
- Messages
- 201
just had to set it on fire
Mykl Clark
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2000
- Messages
- 2,714
First of welcome to the forums. Secondly the first knife I'd take into the field would be an SAK of some kind. One with the saw and probably the scissors too. Then I'd go with a medium sized fixed blade (I;m cheap so it would be my Bushman besides you can put all kinds of things in the handle.) Then probably a good multitool like the LM wave or PST II. Hope I've helped.
Mykl
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me.
Mykl
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Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me.
I have to be the first to admit I have zero wilderness backpacking experience. But I have lived out of a backpack in Europe for a month, truck camped up to Alaska and back for 5 weeks and done some off shore sailing. In all cases what I and you more so needed a knife that would not fail. Also the major use for my knife was food prep. So if I were to redo my past or your planned future I would get a knife thats reliable, easy to clean and as much as possible shepple friendly. To me thats a Lrg. SEBENZA. Backed up with a LM Pulse. Wish I were you.
Jerry
Jerry
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2000
- Messages
- 1,363
You are on holiday, so go light.
A SAK Huntsman, no need for more tools.
A 4 or 5 inch fixed blade if it would give you pleasure/confidence. Money no object then a Chris Reeve Shadow III. That's what I'm going for as my CR Project is too much knife for light hiking.
Buffalo pertex fibre pile shirts are brillient in all but the fiercest of weather. Wear next to the skin.
Ray Mears a survival traveler for the BBC carries a SAK and small fixed blade. Its water and energy that you need to worry about.
Practice what works for you in a controlled environment first. Have fun.
A SAK Huntsman, no need for more tools.
A 4 or 5 inch fixed blade if it would give you pleasure/confidence. Money no object then a Chris Reeve Shadow III. That's what I'm going for as my CR Project is too much knife for light hiking.
Buffalo pertex fibre pile shirts are brillient in all but the fiercest of weather. Wear next to the skin.
Ray Mears a survival traveler for the BBC carries a SAK and small fixed blade. Its water and energy that you need to worry about.
Practice what works for you in a controlled environment first. Have fun.
GREENJACKET,
Those Buffalo pertex shirts are pricey! Are they worth the money? (Sorry for the topic drift but this topic is also a little about backpacking too.)
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
Those Buffalo pertex shirts are pricey! Are they worth the money? (Sorry for the topic drift but this topic is also a little about backpacking too.)
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Hoodoo
I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2000
- Messages
- 355
Hoodoo ,
sorry to crash in , but two of our people use buffalo systems whist the are out ice drilling in Antactica. As an organization we did not proceed in buying more of these as we found them too fragile for our semi industrial work environment, however these two guy's will not give their outfits up , they like them that much.
I guess in short , yes , they work.
Paul.
sorry to crash in , but two of our people use buffalo systems whist the are out ice drilling in Antactica. As an organization we did not proceed in buying more of these as we found them too fragile for our semi industrial work environment, however these two guy's will not give their outfits up , they like them that much.
I guess in short , yes , they work.
Paul.
not2sharp
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 20,499
You should do a series of shorter conditioning trips before the big event. This is basic for determining your optimal pace level, breaking in your boots and feet, and adjusting your equipment rig.
If, you are like most of us, your first trip will feature a nice big bowie knife and plenty of other toys and goodies. After a few streneous weekend backpacking trips the big knife and most of the gear will be gone, and you will find yourself evaluating the merits of hiking naked. There is nothing like the sheath of a large knife banging against your leg after every step, or the nice feel of a gas canister or flashlight pressing against your lower back for hours, to persuade the average backpacker on the merit of going light.
BTW; For backpacking I usually go with a medium size SAK. The Victorionox Rucksack is pretty good. If you want to spend real money then check out the titanium knives made by mission knives.
If, you are like most of us, your first trip will feature a nice big bowie knife and plenty of other toys and goodies. After a few streneous weekend backpacking trips the big knife and most of the gear will be gone, and you will find yourself evaluating the merits of hiking naked. There is nothing like the sheath of a large knife banging against your leg after every step, or the nice feel of a gas canister or flashlight pressing against your lower back for hours, to persuade the average backpacker on the merit of going light.
BTW; For backpacking I usually go with a medium size SAK. The Victorionox Rucksack is pretty good. If you want to spend real money then check out the titanium knives made by mission knives.
Sad fact
is, that on a hike you can actually do very well without a knife. Of course it's nice to have one, but consider what your needs are. You - most likely - do modern hiking/camping. Meaning you carry ready made food and ready made shelter, none of which require a knife to prepare. The trails are - most likely - clear of vegetation and if not, it might easier to circumnavigate obstacles than work your way through them.
The real need for a knife might occur in an emergency situation, especially when you hike alone. While the best survival item IMHO is still a working (e.g. GSM) cellular phone, a knife (as part of your medi kit) might still come in handy while waiting for the rescue team. If any essential part of your equipment (or body) reaches a state in which it doesn't work anymore, you might have to substitute it for a short period of time with items from mother nature. Meaning you have to extract shelter, food, warmth or bodily support (e.g. crutches) from the boonies. Most of these tasks require the chopping/whittling/carving of wood. In this situation you want a sturdy knife which is not too small to handle the bigger tasks but on the other hand not too big for the more delicate things like butchering small game or making triggers for traps (if you then know how to make those things...). A good compromise between weight and strenght would be a knife with a blade not longer than 6", clip point, full tang construction. Forget about a metal guard or pommel, unless of course integral like on Chris Reeve's, Strider's. With what we're already at the point of naming names. As you figured it out, the Strider guys make nice products, but so do Chris Reeve, Busse, Mission, Mad Dog, Simonich, just to name a few. On the more budget oriented end are among others Fallkniven, Becker Knife and Tool and Cold Steel. Take your pick and happy hiking!
The real need for a knife might occur in an emergency situation, especially when you hike alone. While the best survival item IMHO is still a working (e.g. GSM) cellular phone, a knife (as part of your medi kit) might still come in handy while waiting for the rescue team. If any essential part of your equipment (or body) reaches a state in which it doesn't work anymore, you might have to substitute it for a short period of time with items from mother nature. Meaning you have to extract shelter, food, warmth or bodily support (e.g. crutches) from the boonies. Most of these tasks require the chopping/whittling/carving of wood. In this situation you want a sturdy knife which is not too small to handle the bigger tasks but on the other hand not too big for the more delicate things like butchering small game or making triggers for traps (if you then know how to make those things...). A good compromise between weight and strenght would be a knife with a blade not longer than 6", clip point, full tang construction. Forget about a metal guard or pommel, unless of course integral like on Chris Reeve's, Strider's. With what we're already at the point of naming names. As you figured it out, the Strider guys make nice products, but so do Chris Reeve, Busse, Mission, Mad Dog, Simonich, just to name a few. On the more budget oriented end are among others Fallkniven, Becker Knife and Tool and Cold Steel. Take your pick and happy hiking!
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2000
- Messages
- 6,679
Some folks here have recommended a SAK and a multi-tool. Why? When camping I use my Leatherman Wave all the time (the pliers are great for lifting those hot mess-kit pots off the gas cooker). Among useful tools, it has everything my SAKs have. If you're worried about being without toothpick and tweezers, another option might be to also carry a Victorinox Classic. Personally, I wouldn't bother with a fixed blade on a trail hike - not worth the weight. YMMV. Now, if I'm REALLY thinking lightweight, I'd go with a Spyderco Pro Grip Lightweight plain edge and a Victorinox Rambler. I prefer drop-point, plain edge Spydies such as the Pro Grip or Wegner or Goddard because their primary function on a hike is food prep and blades that are serrated or too pointy just tear up bread, won't let me spread peanut butter or cheese, and they're a pain to get clean. Tactical shmactical ... I just want to make lunch.
Bronco
Moderator
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2000
- Messages
- 7,584
I've got to go along with what Hoodoo, backpacker, GreenJacket and others have said regarding the importance of saving weight wherever practicable when on extended hikes. Recently, Neil Blackwood (Dr. Lathe) helped me explore the possibility of having your cake and eating it too in this scenario.
I had purchased a Mission MPS for diving use and was impressed with its unbeatable strength to weight ratio. Eventually the thought occurred to me that it might be a fun project to see about trying to modify the knife by adding some micarta scales to make it a little more ergonomically suitable for hiking use. I contacted Neil, we discussed what I had in mind, and to make a long story short, he was eager to give it a go.
Here is a look at the finished product:
I still wanted to be able to use the knife in its original form for diving, so I asked Neil to make the handles sturdy, yet easily removable. Here's an exploded view of the knife to give you an idea of how Neil accommodated this unusual request. I can tell you that those bushings which fit into the tang cutouts have been machined to Sebenza-like tolerances. They slide right in, but there is absolutely no slop or movement whatsoever:
A simple hex wrench (which Neil even provided
) is all that is required to remove or replace the scales:
As you can see, the level of fit and finish that Neil was able to achieve is remarkable if for no other reason than he did no machining or grinding to the original blade. And what you end up with is a very strong fixed blade knife with a 5" cutting surface that weighs no more than the Sebenza I mentioned earlier. True, Beta Ti doesn't share the edge holding properties of a CPM steel, but it's easily the equal of most SAKs and more than adequate for the trailside chores seen on the AT.
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Semper Fi
-Bill
I had purchased a Mission MPS for diving use and was impressed with its unbeatable strength to weight ratio. Eventually the thought occurred to me that it might be a fun project to see about trying to modify the knife by adding some micarta scales to make it a little more ergonomically suitable for hiking use. I contacted Neil, we discussed what I had in mind, and to make a long story short, he was eager to give it a go.
Here is a look at the finished product:
I still wanted to be able to use the knife in its original form for diving, so I asked Neil to make the handles sturdy, yet easily removable. Here's an exploded view of the knife to give you an idea of how Neil accommodated this unusual request. I can tell you that those bushings which fit into the tang cutouts have been machined to Sebenza-like tolerances. They slide right in, but there is absolutely no slop or movement whatsoever:
A simple hex wrench (which Neil even provided
As you can see, the level of fit and finish that Neil was able to achieve is remarkable if for no other reason than he did no machining or grinding to the original blade. And what you end up with is a very strong fixed blade knife with a 5" cutting surface that weighs no more than the Sebenza I mentioned earlier. True, Beta Ti doesn't share the edge holding properties of a CPM steel, but it's easily the equal of most SAKs and more than adequate for the trailside chores seen on the AT.
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Semper Fi
-Bill
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2000
- Messages
- 15,401
Thought I'd ante up my $.02.
The lighter the better. So here is what I use.
The lighter the better. So here is what I use.
CRK Mark VI w/BladeTech Concealex sheath and Tek-Lok
Victorinox Rucksack on neck lanyard
Spyderco Remote Release Clipped to the shoulder strap of my pack
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Hope this helps ya'.
Later,
Ken
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"Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties.
----Abraham Lincoln