Ultralight pack stuffing.

OwenM said:
frogg toggs poncho when it's warm.
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Would you recommend this poncho? This brand? I'm trying to avoid the headache of going to my local sporting good store to look at an aisle full of choices for a simple poncho.

Thank you.
 
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Sufler said:
I can clearly tell by the replies that I'm missing out on some sort of emergency shelter.

I'm thinking a large poncho that will do "rain jacket" and I can use to build a shelter with. Thoughts?

:thumbup:
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I've used a milsurp ponch for an overnight shelter on two occasions and found it adequate, though cramped. I spread it over a river cane frame "tipi style". though more bell shaped to get more efficient use of space. I would not want to sit in the woods overnight in a rainsuit. After a while, most of them rain inside. Using the poncho I was able to curl up in a ball around a tea candle, had heat and light as well as shelter from (light) wind and rain. A tube tent would let you stretch out more, but you couldn't walk in it without cutting it up to make a ... poncho.
 
That ultralight pack is going to get pretty heavy...

Do you really want to cary all this and MORE on every day hike? I assume you'll be adding lunch, clothing for the environment, etc.. Everyone has their own philosophy which works for them, of course. My philosophy is that the packing is finished when I've removed everything I possibly can, not when there's nothing left to add.

Every gram you cary is a footstep less you get to take on your journeys. Before long people just end up taking their gear for a short walk rather than being able to actually get out and do something. Vehicle kits are one thing, but when you're actually carrying it on your back the "rather have it and not need it" school of thought comes up pretty short.

Lots of things CAN be handy...bug dope, water purification, sunscreen, etc., but it's pointless to lug it around if you're not going to need it TODAY. I keep a box with that sort of stuff by the doorway and I grab what I think I'll need for todays trip rather than cary it around all the time.

For day hiking I'd say that the bandana IS the first aid kit, so the first aid kit could go.
Headlamp could be replaced by a tiny AA LED light, unless you're actually planning on being out after dark.
Mechanics Gloves are handy, but so are a lot of other things. If you're not wearing them from the get go there's no point in carrying them "just in case".
Spork? Why cary a eating utensil if you're not carrying food? If you're packing food that needs a fork or spoon, then throw one in for that trip.
If I think I need shelter on a day hike I take it in the form of a parka or rain coat.
Are you carrying a leatherman in addition to your edc knife? If so, why?
The Sharpie, obviously, is indispensable.

For what it's worth, my "emergency gear", or the stuff I leave in my pack(s) all the time rather than selecting it specifically for the trip, is a lighter and a whistle and a meter of parachute cord. Everything else I cary is mission-specific or just my normal pocket junk that goes everywhere.

Nice looking pack, by the way.
 
Sufler said:
Would you recommend this poncho? This brand? I'm trying to avoid the headache of going to my local sporting good store to look at an aisle full of choices for a simple poncho.

Thank you.
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Just makes me think "heavy" though.
 
sutured said:
My philosophy is that the packing is finished when I've removed everything I possibly can, not when there's nothing left to add.
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Marmot is actually an upgrade from a drawstring bag I usually carried. On my last hike, I had water for two people, bandana and trail snacks in the drawstring bag. I had a photon on my keychain and a folding knife in my pocket. This is pretty much all I've carried for a while on my day-long hikes. This has always worked without issues. However, I felt that in case something went wrong(fell on the trail and broke my leg or something), I wanted to be a little better prepped.

:thumbup:
 
Sufler said:
Would you recommend this poncho? This brand? I'm trying to avoid the headache of going to my local sporting good store to look at an aisle full of choices for a simple poncho.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
For lightweight "just in case" rain gear, yes. The poncho is about 8oz, and their ultralight rainsuit is ~12oz. I've used the poncho in a couple of storms(not in the woods), and the jacket from the rainsuit three mornings around camp already. They're dirt cheap, but as emergency gear, I really only care that they survive one use.
If you want something for regular use, no. If I'm expecting my hardshell jacket or pants to be part of my outfit all day, I'm sticking with my stuff that weighs twice as much, but offers more durability and options for venting.
 
ThriftyJoe said:
It's a challenge to balance items you use all day on the trail vs. what-if emergency items, in case you get injured or stuck out overnight, and still keep your pack nice and light so you can enjoy the hike.
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Joe. I appreciate your input. And that quote above is pretty much what I'm dealing with now. I believe as technology advances, the gear will undoubtedly continue to change and loads hopefully decrease in weight.

Thanks!
 
Sufler said:
Marmot is actually an upgrade from a drawstring bag I usually carried. On my last hike, I had water for two people, bandana and trail snacks in the drawstring bag. I had a photon on my keychain and a folding knife in my pocket. This is pretty much all I've carried for a while on my day-long hikes. This has always worked without issues. However, I felt that in case something went wrong(fell on the trail and broke my leg or something), I wanted to be a little better prepped.

:thumbup:
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Well, it's always good to be prepared, but the problem is there's no limit to the number of things you can prepare for or the amount of gear you can end up carrying as a result. I'm not saying that's what you're doing...just that it's a risk for those traveling down this path. The best "just in case" gear is a bit extra of your normal gear depending on your circumstances. While all the things you have are handy for something, I don't see the spork, first aid kit, leatherman, cordage, or gloves being particularly valuable if you're laying in the woods with a broken leg waiting for rescue. A stocking cap, extra jacket and space blanket or garbage bag would be a lot handier.

The killers are hypothermia (exposure), dehydration and catastrophic injury. What you need to avoid these is very dependent on the environment you're traveling in. If you live in a Mediterranean climate where it doesn't rain for six months of the year, you don't need to be carrying a poncho in July. At six-thousand-feet in Montana it can dump a foot of snow any month of the year, and it's prudent to have a bit more insulation with you.

For most people in most climates a fire is the only thing needed to survive overnight. It may not be comfortable, but it works.

A realistic assessment of your risks will go a long ways towards figuring out what's prudent to cary. Do you often hike in desolate areas alone, or are you usually on well used trails or with someone else? How far do you go? What is the climate and elevation where you hike?

The most successful approach to "just in case" gear is to add extra clothes/food/water/shelter/communication/etc. to your pack depending on the specific climate and geography, not to have a kit of stuff that goes everywhere and never gets used. Not only do you end up with a better selection of gear, but your "just in case" gear is clothing and equipment you've used and proven, not some compromised gimmick that's supposed to be light enough to take with you everywhere.

Of course, you'll be a lot less likely to add that extra jacket and water bottle if a large portion of your pack is filled up with things that "might come in handy".
 
sutured said:
That ultralight pack is going to get pretty heavy...

Do you really want to cary all this and MORE on every day hike? I assume you'll be adding lunch, clothing for the environment, etc.. Everyone has their own philosophy which works for them, of course. My philosophy is that the packing is finished when I've removed everything I possibly can, not when there's nothing left to add.

Every gram you cary is a footstep less you get to take on your journeys. Before long people just end up taking their gear for a short walk rather than being able to actually get out and do something. Vehicle kits are one thing, but when you're actually carrying it on your back the "rather have it and not need it" school of thought comes up pretty short.

Lots of things CAN be handy...bug dope, water purification, sunscreen, etc., but it's pointless to lug it around if you're not going to need it TODAY. I keep a box with that sort of stuff by the doorway and I grab what I think I'll need for todays trip rather than cary it around all the time.For day hiking I'd say that the bandana IS the first aid kit, so the first aid kit could go.
Headlamp could be replaced by a tiny AA LED light, unless you're actually planning on being out after dark.
Mechanics Gloves are handy, but so are a lot of other things. If you're not wearing them from the get go there's no point in carrying them "just in case".
Spork? Why cary a eating utensil if you're not carrying food? If you're packing food that needs a fork or spoon, then throw one in for that trip.
If I think I need shelter on a day hike I take it in the form of a parka or rain coat.
Are you carrying a leatherman in addition to your edc knife? If so, why?
The Sharpie, obviously, is indispensable.

For what it's worth, my "emergency gear", or the stuff I leave in my pack(s) all the time rather than selecting it specifically for the trip, is a lighter and a whistle and a meter of parachute cord. Everything else I cary is mission-specific or just my normal pocket junk that goes everywhere.

Nice looking pack, by the way.
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I agree. I normally always have the pack cover, lights, aspirin and toilet paper but if I do the same thing as you, I sort of have a box with stuff in it.

I don't always have the raincoat in there. Sometimes if I'm going to a festival I bring a tiny umbrella for shade. I normally always keep the bug stuff, and aspirin in there though cause it's small. My sunscreen bottle is huge so I usually only put that in there if there's going to be a lot of sun.
 
sutured said:
people just end up taking their gear for a short walk
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8e9b5874-4c37-4e4e-8b0a-7021bb9fb7cd.jpg
 
Tixx said:
Trying to think as you don't have anything for shelter if anything goes a little wrong and you are out. An AMK bivy would be small and light. I carry them on my hiking trips. Maybe others have suggestions.
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+1

I have one of these tucked away in each of my bags. They are more durable than the usual space blankets, and not much bulkier.


Do you have room for a "cat stove" and a few oz. of alcohol for fuel?
 
Foilist said:
Do you have room for a "cat stove" and a few oz. of alcohol for fuel?
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I had never considered a stove. However, the idea of brewing a cup of tea on a trail in the ever chillier weather would be a nice convenience. I have to decide whether this convenience is worth the weight.

Thanks for the suggestion!

:thumbup:
 
May want to add some extra insulation like a poncho liner if you are going overnight, or in colder weather.
 
sutured said:
That ultralight pack is going to get pretty heavy...

Do you really want to cary all this and MORE on every day hike?
Click to expand...


I was going to discuss this. I started backpacking over 30 years ago. I read some books on backpacking, got my gear put together, and when my friends arrived for our first trip they dumped out all of my stuff and went through it. They tossed out some things and my pack was still heavier than I should have had. For an overnight pack go ahead and bring all of your stuff, for longer hikes you need to pack more carefully.

I remember carrying a small knife, mostly to open food packages with. I carried a small compass, a map, a small flashlight, a short length of paracord and some moleskin. We carried a backpacking stove, nalgene water bottles, iodine tablets and dehydrated food. We carried sleeping bags and pads. We were in the desert and not worried about bad weather so we didn't carry tents or heavy clothing. We went 5 days/4 nights and covered a lot of distance. On another trip in the Rocky Mountains we had the same gear but we carried tents and cold weather gear, and a water filter.

If you are going places where you need to build shelter, or where you risk being injured and stranded, or lost, you need to take more gear. And always take clothing and shelter appropriate for where you are going.

I went on a trip once by myself, hiking down some canyons to the shore of Lake Powell for overnight camping. I camp upon a blockage caused by a large chokestone. I was unsure if I could get by safely so I turned around and went back. If I had been injured there I would have been there for a long time before someone else came by.
 
Sufler said:
I can clearly tell by the replies that I'm missing out on some sort of emergency shelter.

I'm thinking a large poncho that will do "rain jacket" and I can use to build a shelter with. Thoughts?

:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I carry a full rain suit - light weight marmot I think, jacket and pants. I use it for rain and it is a layer if something happens and I have to spend the night (broken ankle, lost). I also carry a space bag, which is sort of an insulated sleeping bag made out of space blanket material with snaps on the side. Rolls up very compact and lightweight. You can cut a face / breathing hole in the bottom and put it on upside down over your head if you have to stay over. The other use for the space bag is to treat someone else who you may happen across that is in need of immediate warmth, either hypothermic or in shock.

These three items comprise my emergency shelter for day trips, and I've never had to use the space bag.

I also carry a fleece jacket and fleece cap for emergency (and sometimes, in the fall, non-emergency) warmth, and any pair of gloves (sometimes Simms fleece fingerless fishing gloves, sometimes leather Wells Lamont, sometimes wool / grippy) these can easily be layered with my clothes that I am wearing and the rain suit to keep pretty warm.

I always carry a small firearm (scandium .357 snub) concealed in my front pants pocket in a holster that is designed to stay in my pocket when I pull the gun out. This mitigates the need for bear spray, and frankly, some humans are more scary than bears. I tend to be more confident with it there.

I generally hike around the same large area, where there are 300 lakes stocked with fish, so I carry a Garmin Etrex GPS and log where I parked the car, as well as any lakes that I visit. I am up to about 70 now. This is extremely helpful when you go to a lake across country, no trail, and need to get straight back in a torrential, muddy downpour (wearing the rain suit, of course). Compass and good map too, which I have used to find the car when I was disoriented before, plus orienteering is a fun outdoor activity.

Dry tinder is good to have, in a pinch you would just be using the lighter, so some cotton balls, and a small tube of vaseline 100% petroleum jelly lip balm make a good tinder.

For TP I carry the little Kleenex packs, I've got them everywhere, and I have a few paper towels, and a few Clean Wipes with me at all times too.

Lip balm, Benadryl pills, Benadryl spray, Sun Block, Tylenol, 100% Deet.

Camera is good, and I like to carry a small pair of binoculars as well.

Once in a while I get a bit hypoglycemic, so I carry a smallbag of Mike and Ike's for me,
Charlie gets milk bones for lunch or he'll starts eating sticks.

You might even consider a small flask with some whiskey in it.

Don't bother with elaborate shelters and stoves and such unless you are going to use them,
too much weight; I never even use paracord unless I'm doing a project.

I carry a stove on the days that I want to cook hot lunch,
but otherwise it is too heavy and stays home.

I haven't used the space bag yet, it is a last resort and will get me through a
night even if it snows, without dying, which is the point.

Everything else I carry gets used at least some of the time,
because I hate carrying more than I need, well except for the seven knives...
 
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