umnum test from poland

rustle said:
Hi guys, I think I might be helpful. If my english will handle it:)

1.Test purpose
Test might seem a bit abusive for many, but the purpose of it was not only to test the knife but mainly to test new solutions used in this design. Of course that most of these knives won't see such kind of use but there is also possibility that such a test can show performance of a knife after years of constant but typical use - and that would show us benefits from innovative solutions.

2. Potential reasons of a lock failure
I will relate to this post by STR:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7691387&postcount=91
Because I personally think that it's the most coherent one and sums it all up pretty well.

Potential reasons for a fail of lock:
-shock of impact connected with mud, water, oil form washers etc. in the lock - well, knife was cleaned, so there was no mud, maybe water and oil - but this and only this can't be a sole thing responsible - Sebenza after such treatment do well, also Tenacious as you can see on a video and so on
-what above + overextension of the lock (being investigated, maybe there would be also some video, personally I don't know), I think that maybe a stopping disk for a frame lock could be helpful and easily prevent overextending

And I'll add two another reasons:
-fail of this one particular knife (being investigated)
-fail of the design - maybe too much wear due to ceramic ball, but it's too early to draw conclusions

3. Further to check
So now when oil & dirt is checked it's about:
-whether only overextension can be a reason
-overextension with oil, water and so on added
That can be checked on other frame locks or as well - another Umnumzaan.
Then it's about one knife accident or a design.

If overextended dirty Umnumzaan will perform good, then it's a time for another round of harsh tests - lock fails similarily - means yours will do that also but, let say, after ten years of use, while Sebbie would have lasted 20+, otherwise it was only an accident and shouldn't be taken into consideration.
I don't know if such tests will be performed and so on, maybe someone from here can also try that - overextend - check - make it wet/use some oil - check. Additional data could be helpful.

4. Present status
BUT - at now procedures are not ended, what you're getting here are some glimpses of what is being done or what has been done in the past and with no proper background these information are useless for you - so please - ignore them. Without reading a thread on knives.pl which is waaay bigger than that one - there is no point. There was NO intention of releasing this info outside on this stage.

There will be given an official (from the forum as a whole) summary and explanation in this thread but in the end when everything will be clear. Till this very moment - everything you may see may be taken out of context and simply useless for you - so please do not judge it lightly as we do not judge lightly Umnumzaan.
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It would be courteous to properly introduce yourself.

I consider it dissrespectful not only to CRK but to all the members here that you make a first post with out a proper introduction. :mad:.

It's completely obvious that the lock in your video failed because of over extension of the lock bar....that blade is not rolling through the lock in battery.
 
Nice post, rustle, it explains a lot. Welcome to Bladeforums.

Course, you may determine your welcome is not so warm from others.

I'm assuming you were involved in making the video that started this thread, and it appears your intentions were legit, and respectful. You back your video (if it was you) with coherent observations, unlike many who post here.

Ignore the frowny/high and mighty, and tell it like it is.
 
rustle said:
Hi guys, I think I might be helpful. If my english will handle it:)

1.Test purpose
Test might seem a bit abusive for many, but the purpose of it was not only to test the knife but mainly to test new solutions used in this design. Of course that most of these knives won't see such kind of use but there is also possibility that such a test can show performance of a knife after years of constant but typical use - and that would show us benefits from innovative solutions.

2. Potential reasons of a lock failure
I will relate to this post by STR:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7691387&postcount=91
Because I personally think that it's the most coherent one and sums it all up pretty well.

Potential reasons for a fail of lock:
-shock of impact connected with mud, water, oil form washers etc. in the lock - well, knife was cleaned, so there was no mud, maybe water and oil - but this and only this can't be a sole thing responsible - Sebenza after such treatment do well, also Tenacious as you can see on a video and so on
-what above + overextension of the lock (being investigated, maybe there would be also some video, personally I don't know), I think that maybe a stopping disk for a frame lock could be helpful and easily prevent overextending

And I'll add two another reasons:
-fail of this one particular knife (being investigated)
-fail of the design - maybe too much wear due to ceramic ball, but it's too early to draw conclusions

3. Further to check
So now when oil & dirt is checked it's about:
-whether only overextension can be a reason
-overextension with oil, water and so on added
That can be checked on other frame locks or as well - another Umnumzaan.
Then it's about one knife accident or a design.

If overextended dirty Umnumzaan will perform good, then it's a time for another round of harsh tests - lock fails similarily - means yours will do that also but, let say, after ten years of use, while Sebbie would have lasted 20+, otherwise it was only an accident and shouldn't be taken into consideration.
I don't know if such tests will be performed and so on, maybe someone from here can also try that - overextend - check - make it wet/use some oil - check. Additional data could be helpful.

4. Present status
BUT - at now procedures are not ended, what you're getting here are some glimpses of what is being done or what has been done in the past and with no proper background these information are useless for you - so please - ignore them. Without reading a thread on knives.pl which is waaay bigger than that one - there is no point. There was NO intention of releasing this info outside on this stage.

There will be given an official (from the forum as a whole) summary and explanation in this thread but in the end when everything will be clear. Till this very moment - everything you may see may be taken out of context and simply useless for you - so please do not judge it lightly as we do not judge lightly Umnumzaan.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your detailed explanation, and thanks for taking the time to post in another language. I think the thing several of us were thinking is that it wasn't immediately clear how the Tenacious video related to the Umnumzaan.
 
Okay - we have watched this thread go backwards and forwards but there is really only one way we can comment - we need to see the knife. Please send it to us so we can evaluate the condition of the knife.

Thanks
Anne
 
I'm sorry if I showed disrespect, my only intention was to explain some things fast - before avalanche of more unconstructive posts.

To put it straight - I was not involved in the test, I am not even at the moment member of "Testers' Fund" I was not involved in a following video, my only involvement is being knives.pl user and knowing these people and a lengthy discussion on our side about this test.

I'll check what is the status of a knife at now. I'm pretty sure that it has been taken care of. Publishing test here changed a whole schedule. There was NO intention of publishing it here and making explanations here. But there will be a test appendix posted when it'll be concluded.

Until then - bringing hype to unfinished case i.e. more posts in this topic are doing more harm than good to CRK and it would be proper to hold back from further comments until things clear. Thank you.
 
Everyone has probably noticed that there's another version of this viral thread in the General section. The post below makes a very good point very clearly:

A.P.F. said:
Assuming the act of stabbing the fridge was a straight line force along the longitudinal axis of the knife, we should expect that the stop pin, the pivot and the lock bar will equally absorb the impact force. However, if you examine the video, the individual in question prises the blade from the fridge by placing downward force on the handle. Due to the fact that the steel of the fridge has effectively wedged the blade, the pivot now acts to shift the force towards the spine of the blade and directly on the lockbar rather than the stop pin. This extreme pressure on the lock bar was repeated as many times as you see knife punctures. No lock mechanism on a folding knife is designed for that degree of stress. At that point, the damage was done. We have no knowledge as to how the knife performed under a 'spine whack' in that vid as none were performed. For all we know, the lock failed when he pulled the knife out of the fridge while off camera. As well, for all we know, he stabbed the knife into the fridge repeatedly off camera or otherwise abused the knife before the vid of the 'spine whack' failure.

I feel that after such abuse as was illustrated, it would be inappropriate to condemn any folder or lock mechanism. The actions simply exceeded the design criteria.
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Biginboca said:
Interesting. There is no doubt from the video that the lock doesn't hold well.

I have tested 2 Umnumzaan's with spine wacks, and good hard ones, and they passed fine. One I foolishly sold but the other is my current EDC and I trust it 100%.

And I am on the hunt for a Tanto Umnum right now too :)
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i am too, true north has them if you're willing to pay full price, and pay for the shipping from canada.
 
rustle said:
I'm sorry if I showed disrespect, my only intention was to explain some things fast - before avalanche of more unconstructive posts.

To put it straight - I was not involved in the test, I am not even at the moment member of "Testers' Fund" I was not involved in a following video, my only involvement is being knives.pl user and knowing these people and a lengthy discussion on our side about this test.

I'll check what is the status of a knife at now. I'm pretty sure that it has been taken care of. Publishing test here changed a whole schedule. There was NO intention of publishing it here and making explanations here. But there will be a test appendix posted when it'll be concluded.

Until then - bringing hype to unfinished case i.e. more posts in this topic are doing more harm than good to CRK and it would be proper to hold back from further comments until things clear. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification rustle. :)
 
Hi guys, I know this knife was sent back to Chris Reeve (I was told). Does anyone know what was eventually 'wrong' with this knife or why I did not pass the spine wack test? How did this story end?
 
Hello,

current status is "in process, the knife was sent to manufacturer".

Don't worry, we didn't forget this topic.
 
Biginboca said:
Thinking about this some more and examining my Umnumzaan something occurred to me. There is a pic in that review (3rd pic) where he bends the lock backwards to show the detent ball. I tried to look at mine in that way and it feels like if I bent it that far the lock would be way overextended and definitely weakened.

Those who have an umnum look at the 3rd pic which shows the detent ball and try that with your knife to see what you think, because I think it would possibly cause a lock to be weak and malfunction if bent to show the ball like in that pic.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Thats why Rick Hinderer uses the overtravel stop system he invented. It stops the lock bar from being pushed to far out. I'd say he damaged his Umnumzaan by doing this. This guys test looks pretty stupid to me and I believe he caused his own lock failure! :thumbdn:
 
Just thought I would let you all know that we have yet to see the Umnumzaan in question. Besides the request in this thread, I have emailed twice to the man who sent us the original link to the Polish website but have had no response.

Without seeing the knife, the wear and the position of the lock, we cannot make any comment on the test.

Anne
 
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Chris Reeve Knives said:
Just thought I would let you all know that we have yet to see the Umnumzaanin question. Besides the request in this thread, I have emailed twice to the man who sent us the original link to the Polish website but have had no response.

Without seeing the knife, the wear and the position of the lock, we cannot make any comment on the test.

Anne
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You probably wouln't. People post this crap to try and ruin your good name because they are jealous of your continued success and High Standing in the Knife Industry. You will always have a life long fan here. I know if I ever have a problem or issue, you will make it right without question.
Keep up the great work Anne, Your The Best :thumbup::thumbup:
 
Chris Reeve Knives said:
Just thought I would let you all know that we have yet to see the Umnumzaanin question. Besides the request in this thread, I have emailed twice to the man who sent us the original link to the Polish website but have had no response.

Without seeing the knife, the wear and the position of the lock, we cannot make any comment on the test.

Anne
Click to expand...

That's because you're responsive, responsible and well-mannered. I doubt you'll ever see it - and that tells us all we need to know about the truthfulness and usefulness of the so-called test.
 
nyefmaker said:
You probably wouln't. People post this crap to try and ruin your good name because they are jealous of your continued success and High Standing in the Knife Industry. You will always have a life long fan here. I know if I ever have a problem or issue, you will make it right without question.
Keep up the great work Anne, Your The Best :thumbup::thumbup:
Click to expand...

:thumbup::thumbup:
 
When I was a kid I had a Buck 112 I liked to flip it open ALOT eventually the lock became so warn that simple spine whacks would cause lock failure. This was not a weakness in the knife any more that a blade becoming dull from use..... wear happens.

Some things in the videos as indicated in other posts, prying the knife from the fridge and as I saw flicking open of the knife would/could contribute to the frame lock becoming worn.
This combined with the negative bending of the frame lock could easily contribute by limiting the amount the frame lock engaged.

Worn lock (smooth) weak lockup (negative bending)

Separately definite possible problems
Together very probable problems

My conclusion is that use (possible misuse) is the greatest contributing factor
You need to maintain your knives you cannot expect a knife to absorb continual abuse even use and not need some maintenance.

Chris Reeve Knives said:
Folding knives are no different than any other precision instrument - critical parts must be kept clean and maintained!

Anne
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