Umnumzaan tip strength (video added on page 2)

Tanto tip question for tis thread: I've got a late model Umnum and have had these very same vague anxieties about the tip strength. I was wondering if getting a tanto Umnum would give much stronger tip strength? It is supposed to because of the geometry, but does anyone have experience with the Tanto version in this respect?
 
I compared my "older" Zaan with my Seb 21 and Classic. I marked a point @ 3mm from the tip and miked it, under 10-power magnification, with knife-edge dial micrometers.
The 21 measured 0.038" thick, with perpendicular blade width at that point to be 0.105".
The Classic measured 0.040" thick, with blade width at that point to be 0.100".
The Zaan measured 0.041" thick, with blade width at that point to be 0.120".

To the casual observer, using three of my knives and my measurements, the Zaan would "appear" to be stronger.
Now, throw in S30V vs S35V perhaps for some of you folks.
The cross-sectional area defined by the measurement spot.
The angle of the grinds
The swedge on the Zaan versus the rounded spine of the Sebs.
Possible small changes in temper at the tip, caused by both initial heat-treatment and heat generated by initial grinding of the tip.
and...Voila...a can of worms.

However, even before the measurement, I'd bet on my Umnumzaan. Heck, that's why Chris called it "the Boss." :)
Sonny
 
The tip on my Umnumzaan is thicker than on my Sebenza--even after I blunted the tip on my Sebenza.

To be honest: at what point would doing what that guy does in the video be useful? I'm no "bushcrafter," but in my experience (even when I worked in warehouses) I've never come across a situation where I'd need to do that. Pry some box staples? Sure. I did that even with a BM 943 with a much thinner blade and tip. Just don't crank your knife too hard and you won't snap your tip.
 
vininull said:
That's what I am talking about! I compare Andrew's pics to my Umnumzaan and see huge difference...
Can it be that there such distinction from knife to knife during a production process?
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His knife looks to have been sharpened from that pic so the tip is naturally going to be thicker. Not sure if your zaan is sharpened or not but I would not worry at all about the tip strength. Also a better way to check the tip would be to hold the blade up into light so you see the black outline of the tip rather trying to look at it with a light shining down because the swedge can can make the tip look needle thin when in reality it's thicker. These are absolutely tough knives and I read a story of someone on bf who bent the tip on their zaan and they bent it right back, good as new.
 
kawr said:
His knife looks to have been sharpened from that pic so the tip is naturally going to be thicker. Not sure if your zaan is sharpened or not but I would not worry at all about the tip strength. Also a better way to check the tip would be to hold the blade up into light so you see the black outline of the tip rather trying to look at it with a light shining down because the swedge can can make the tip look needle thin when in reality it's thicker. These are absolutely tough knives and I read a story of someone on bf who bent the tip on their zaan and they bent it right back, good as new.
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Yes, Andrew's knife was resharpened and mine is still with factory edge. I imagine that resharpening will thicker the tip a bit.
Thanks for an advice about looking on the tip thickness.
By the way, since I started this thread mu Umnumzaan has been through some hard use and the tip was bent a little BUT I bent it back to straight very easily. Mr. Reeve's S35VN seems to be amazingly springy!
 
vininull said:
Yes, Andrew's knife was resharpened and mine is still with factory edge. I imagine that resharpening will thicker the tip a bit.
Thanks for an advice about looking on the tip thickness.
By the way, since I started this thread mu Umnumzaan has been through some hard use and the tip was bent a little BUT I bent it back to straight very easily. Mr. Reeve's S35VN seems to be amazingly springy!
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Good to hear. :thumbup:
 
I guess no one loves their Umnumzaan as much as I do now ;) Here you go with tip and lock strength proof. For action skip to 5:00 . Enjoy!

[video=youtube;iI5k2J73LAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI5k2J73LAs[/video]
 
vininull said:
I guess no one loves their Umnumzaan as much as I do now ;) Here you go with tip and lock strength proof. For action skip to 5:00 . Enjoy!
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Great vid! Thanks very much for sharing. You show off your love for your Umnumzaan VERY well. :D Do you happen to have a link to the knives.pl "test" of the Umnumzaan?

Thanks!

:thumbup:
 
vininull said:
I guess no one loves their Umnumzaan as much as I do now ;) Here you go with tip and lock strength proof. For action skip to 5:00 . Enjoy!
Click to expand...

Cool video vininull - can you get an English interpreter or sub-titles next time? :p :D
 
vininull said:
I'll try :) I just didn't initially planned to put it here ;)
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bravo! now that is a robust video of the zaan in real action; akin to the activities i do when i use mine (and other blades of same size/class)...the last thing i think about when using it is breaking a tip.
 
Alex, that was a nice video. Brave stuff. Glad your zaan held up. So now I know my new zaan is up for anything.

DSC_0258.jpg
 
Wow, I'm glad to see the Zaan hold up so well in that test. My Startac Zaan (older version with the "cool" pivot) is one of my most prized knives and I just think it's one of the most beautifully design AND built knives every. A knife just simply can't get higher quality or more "pro", in my opinion.

By the way, the Paramilitary 2 is a tactical knife, which is exactly why the tip is so thin. The only things it's really meant to stab or penetrate are some things, such as flesh, as opposed to a harder use knife or utility knife, such as the Sebenza and Umnumzaan (the Seb is definitely not a tactical knife at all and the Zaan could be argued either way). The Military was designed because Sal Glesser wanted to design a knife that he would want his son to have if his son were sent off to war. It's got a safety choil, a thumb ramp, high traction scales and jumping, a thin full flat grind, and a thin tip, which is a great design for tactical defense and for slicing/cutting for general EDC tasks a soldier might have. The Paramilitary 2 is, roughly, a smaller version of the military. Not trying to correct you, just thought I'd explain that it is a tactical knife and that's why it does have a thin tip for penetration. :)
 
The word "tactical" is a marketing term, there are no "tactical knives" there are knives that are either fit for purpose or not. No folding knife is fit for the purpose of killing bad guys in a professional manner, no matter how much you want to believe it. The armed forces are issued with a rifle and a bayonet for killing people, not a 3 or 4 inch pocket knife. :D The Mili. and Para. are good knives but I have seen broken blades on both those knives, I have yet to see any on an Umnumzaan or Sebenza. :)

A.Dragg said:
Wow, I'm glad to see the Zaan hold up so well in that test. My Startac Zaan (older version with the "cool" pivot) is one of my most prized knives and I just think it's one of the most beautifully design AND built knives every. A knife just simply can't get higher quality or more "pro", in my opinion.

By the way, the Paramilitary 2 is a tactical knife, which is exactly why the tip is so thin. The only things it's really meant to stab or penetrate are some things, such as flesh, as opposed to a harder use knife or utility knife, such as the Sebenza and Umnumzaan (the Seb is definitely not a tactical knife at all and the Zaan could be argued either way). The Military was designed because Sal Glesser wanted to design a knife that he would want his son to have if his son were sent off to war. It's got a safety choil, a thumb ramp, high traction scales and jumping, a thin full flat grind, and a thin tip, which is a great design for tactical defense and for slicing/cutting for general EDC tasks a soldier might have. The Paramilitary 2 is, roughly, a smaller version of the military. Not trying to correct you, just thought I'd explain that it is a tactical knife and that's why it does have a thin tip for penetration. :)
Click to expand...
 
Haze said:
No folding knife is fit for the purpose of killing bad guys in a professional manner, no matter how much you want to believe it.
Click to expand...

Amateurs do it all the time.
Three or four inches of steel stuck in you sucks, as numerous corpses in morgues can attest.
We overthink these things, while evil men (and women) go out and kill folks with dollar store paring knives and "Cheap Chinese Crap" (or Pakistan...those were the days) folders.
 
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