Unexpectedly good budget blades?

Both Master and United Rambo II licensed copies are good deals, but the UC especially is off the charts...

VSSSWT6.jpg


They were better made at $100 than my $2000 original no dot Lile, the UC being almost identical in the resin handle assembly method.

The 420J steel on both vastly outperformed the Lile's D-2 (or another Lile's 440), being immune to chipping compared to the D-2, and they compounded this by being far better knives to sharpen... Sharpening alone made them far better, more useful knives, and despite this the 420J edges were comparable in endurance to D-2 and longer lasting than most 440, while being infinitely easier to sharpen than both...

They both had better grinding, prefect straightness, and far more evenly thick, more symmetrical edges that were easier to sharpen more consistently as a result... Paint job on the Master was masked in an ugly design, but even their paint was far better than on the all black Lile... The Master was thicker edged at 0.040", so not equivalent to UC and Lile at 0.030", but on the plus side it is hugely stouter than either...

My Lile was sold and the UC now happily resides in its sheath.... Pretty sobering stuff at 1/20th the price...

Gaston

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deltablade said:
The Zeig inspired me, and this looks to be an unexpectdly good inexpensive knife. Paint is model paint, tho my 68 year old hands and eyes didnt do nearly as good a job as The Zeig.

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I think model paint is the way to go as the latex paint on mine is peeling already. Painter's tape made the edges nice on mine. I'm no artist! Yours looks great! When the red is done peeling off mine, I'll switch to green!

My LT has almost no play, BTW.

Zieg
 
I always wondered what the point is of the uncoated sections on the blades of the Rambo knives. At first I thought that the uncoated part is the actual grind, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Is it that they leave an uncoated section close to the edge bevel, so that you don't have to grind on the coating when you sharpen the knife? That's the only reason I can think of apart from "just for looks".
 
Gaston444 said:
Both Master and United Rambo II licensed copies are good deals, but the UC especially is off the charts...

VSSSWT6.jpg


They were better made at $100 than my $2000 original no dot Lile, the UC being almost identical in the resin handle assembly method.

The 420J steel on both vastly outperformed the Lile's D-2 (or another Lile's 440), being immune to chipping compared to the D-2, and they compounded this by being far better knives to sharpen... Sharpening alone made them far better, more useful knives, and despite this the 420J edges were comparable in endurance to D-2 and longer lasting than most 440, while being infinitely easier to sharpen than both...

They both had better grinding, prefect straightness, and far more evenly thick, more symmetrical edges that were easier to sharpen more consistently as a result... Paint job on the Master was masked in an ugly design, but even their paint was far better than on the all black Lile... The Master was thicker edged at 0.040", so not equivalent to UC and Lile at 0.030", but on the plus side it is hugely stouter than either...

My Lile was sold and the UC now happily resides in its sheath.... Pretty sobering stuff at 1/20th the price...

Gaston

HIQi6SF.jpg
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where did you find a UC?
 
How about this Klein R-3 electrician ( its Tl-29 pattern ) currently called the KK.

this one was $5 from the flea market yesterday, but I don't think you could beat a new one at $25.
they've got some imperfections, but it's an inexpensive working knife made for tradesman who don't take care of their blades anyways.
 
Henry Beige said:
I have about a dozen Moras and one Hultafors. It has a thicker blade than a Companion, more like the heavy-duty version, with a faux-Scandi grind. The handle is a hideous Rustoleum green hard plastic, quite fat. Not as refined as a Mora, a little easier to think of as a beater knife. It would seem perfect to keep in my truck, except it is so well-suited to popping open frozen car doors that glove-box carry would defeat the purpose.

The Finlanders up here in Minnesota and the UP tend to sniff at Moras in favor of Marttiinis. If you like Moras, you might want to try a couple for the contrast. They have some rubber-handled models in carbon and stainless priced about like the Moras.

On the whole, I prefer the carbon blades for esthetic reasons, but I really have nothing against the stainless. Both take a great edge.
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lets see if Fusion paint by Krylon holds up, orange sure easier to find than green

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Gaston444 said:
Both Master and United Rambo II licensed copies are good deals, but the UC especially is off the charts...

VSSSWT6.jpg


They were better made at $100 than my $2000 original no dot Lile, the UC being almost identical in the resin handle assembly method.

The 420J steel on both vastly outperformed the Lile's D-2 (or another Lile's 440), being immune to chipping compared to the D-2, and they compounded this by being far better knives to sharpen... Sharpening alone made them far better, more useful knives, and despite this the 420J edges were comparable in endurance to D-2 and longer lasting than most 440, while being infinitely easier to sharpen than both...

They both had better grinding, prefect straightness, and far more evenly thick, more symmetrical edges that were easier to sharpen more consistently as a result... Paint job on the Master was masked in an ugly design, but even their paint was far better than on the all black Lile... The Master was thicker edged at 0.040", so not equivalent to UC and Lile at 0.030", but on the plus side it is hugely stouter than either...

My Lile was sold and the UC now happily resides in its sheath.... Pretty sobering stuff at 1/20th the price...

Gaston

HIQi6SF.jpg
Click to expand...
Sounds like a whole lotta bullshit to me.
What you say means nothing if you haven't even used them. ( Cutting paper for no reason doesn't count )
 
Gaston444 said:
Both Master and United Rambo II licensed copies are good deals, but the UC especially is off the charts...

VSSSWT6.jpg


They were better made at $100 than my $2000 original no dot Lile, the UC being almost identical in the resin handle assembly method.

The 420J steel on both vastly outperformed the Lile's D-2 (or another Lile's 440), being immune to chipping compared to the D-2, and they compounded this by being far better knives to sharpen... Sharpening alone made them far better, more useful knives, and despite this the 420J edges were comparable in endurance to D-2 and longer lasting than most 440, while being infinitely easier to sharpen than both...

They both had better grinding, prefect straightness, and far more evenly thick, more symmetrical edges that were easier to sharpen more consistently as a result... Paint job on the Master was masked in an ugly design, but even their paint was far better than on the all black Lile... The Master was thicker edged at 0.040", so not equivalent to UC and Lile at 0.030", but on the plus side it is hugely stouter than either...

My Lile was sold and the UC now happily resides in its sheath.... Pretty sobering stuff at 1/20th the price...

Gaston

HIQi6SF.jpg
Click to expand...

If you have actually put you're knives to work, you would realize 420j is a terrible steel that can't hold an edge at all. I remember using a Sog traction with 420 steel for one day at work and by the end of the day it was already fairly dull. I find it odd that someone is actually praising 420j.
 
Blur1670 said:
If you have actually put you're knives to work, you would realize 420j is a terrible steel that can't hold an edge at all. I remember using a Sog traction with 420 steel for one day at work and by the end of the day it was already fairly dull. I find it odd that someone is actually praising 420j.
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It depends on the knife , the uses, and the person.
If you've got a small folder in 420j, don't cut tons or cardboard, and just want a blade you can touch back up to shaving in no time then 420j can be a perfectly adequate steel for a lot of people.

Than doesn't mean everything this guy posts isn't BS though, just that 420j can be serviceable.
 
Blur1670 said:
If you have actually put you're knives to work, you would realize 420j is a terrible steel that can't hold an edge at all. I remember using a Sog traction with 420 steel for one day at work and by the end of the day it was already fairly dull. I find it odd that someone is actually praising 420j.
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Better move upscale to Master or United Cutlery then... My Master has several thousand chops in it by now... I only went to a few hundreds with the United as they are rare (it behaved the same).

Master here vs GSO-10 in CPM-3V: The small folded edge area (you see only the nail grabbing) on the Master is from a gross twisting error, none such with the GSO-10:

gKQVZEs.jpg


Only a few chops all around allow an easy break:

aZinERS.jpg


After a couple of hundred hits, very little difference in phonebook paper slicing:

wmmYugM.jpg


Not a great batoner owing the swedge and saw, but it can do it...:

i9g0TdZ.jpg


That one was too much though...: It did crack halfway...

Mx5tIIL.jpg


Had to beat hard on the handle several dozen times to get it out after I quit (cord padded the hits great, but it would have made no difference either way)...:

IPyAeuP.jpg


Still cuts the phonebook paper, but slightly less well after the big log than after 200 chops (I think this indicates chops are a better value with less wear activity, especially if you gnaw all around and break):

pNRsRsq.jpg


At this point, I'm not sure the D-2 Lile would not have been in deep trouble, perhaps in pieces, as the log was bending the blade severely, which is why I stopped... The Master's thin point bent slightly, but came back to true after pounding the knife into the log in reverse, to twist it the other way! So the above paper cutting is after two serious poundings, not one...

Gaston
 
Dr Heelhook said:
I always wondered what the point is of the uncoated sections on the blades of the Rambo knives.
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Doc, the blade on the original First Blood knife was completely bead blasted, but as soon as filming began, the blade was not showing up on film, so Lile polished the blade around the edges so the blade's outline would reflect light and show up better on screen.
 
deltablade said:
does the saw on the spine actually work?
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Not from the box, on either the United Cutlery and the Master Cutlery (they can do 1/8" notches as is: I consider 1/2" a minimum): This is because the saw tops are not angled down to the front. Many Liles sawbacks are angled down, but not the two-tone numbered Rambo IIs series of 100(!), and, it seems, very few of all the Sly IIs... (Most plain non-numbered Liles Rambo IIs appear correctly angled)

All the Lile movie knives are angled down on screen.

My Lile Rambo II was angled down as is, my Lile Sly II was not.

What I did to my United Cutlery RII is to have its sawback top angled down by 0.5 mm on each tooth by Josh at REK (easy does it on the angle: 1 mm is a bit much). This gave it an unusually aggressive action, but still you cannot expect much more than 1/2" notches on big/medium logs, 1" deep on 2" diameter branches at best: Going all around to 1/2" you might break a 3.5" log with ease, but that is the upper end. 1/2" deep notches, or an all-round 1/2" groove for breaking, is all you can realistically expect.

1/2" -3/4" with no effort is very good for a 1/4" thick sawback spine, and this value is typically only possible for the Lile design, because the blade is Full Flat Grind, making the top of the teeth the widest part. Most other designs are worse(!)...

My Master Cutlery, being less rare and valuable than the now hard to get UC (rarer than real Liles it now seems!), had its saw angled down with a dia-sharp extra coarse hone by hand by me(!): Surprisingly it worked great, but still offers no more than 1/2"-3/4" notches on most logs at reasonable effort. (I give these pessimistic values for a low effort, as I don't see the point of wasting a huge amount of energy to gain 1/4": These are realistic figures)

Bear in mind all other sawbacks are inferior to the Lile design (except one I will get to later): Parrish has a saber not Full Flat Grind blade profile (flat sides) that will bind after 1/4" (on top of a Full Flat Grind it would have been much better!). The Busse Battlesaw has trouble reaching 1/4" due to the push design. (Push saws need huge broad guards to push on: Busse only offer a narrow 1/4" wide "talon": This makes it almost an unworkable design...).

I used to think the Lile design was the best, mostly because it sits on top of the widest point of the blade. But I remember now the original 1985-86 vintage Aitor Jungle King I's triangular staggered two-row sawback as equivalent, despite the handicap of being not the widest part of the blade: On top of a saber grind, not a Full Flat Grind... (And it was a push saw!)

Triangular points in a stagger would be the most efficient sawback, provided this sat on top of a Full Flat Grind, making the triangular points sit wider than the blade: So far only one knife that I am aware of has ever offered this, the best possible of all sawback design: The SOG Team Leader (I think maybe a Kershaw also did, both being what I consider small knives at 5-6"):

SOG-TL02-SOG-Team-Leader-Knife.jpg


If angled Liles sawbacks can do 1/2" to 3/4" at best, this above probably doubles or triples that... One downside of triangular point sawback is that pounding on triangular spine teeth is far more troublesome than the "flatter top" Lile saw design: This is made moot by the thin point design of the Lile Rambos, which mangles your baton inefficiently anyway: A flat full width spine, with no swedge, in the clip point of this design would work wonders for that purpose: I always hated the Lile point design for several reasons....

For the me the value of deep square notches, and the possible wood tinder, far outweights the disadvantages of sawbacks. On the flip side, the downsides of batoning outweight the good in my view, which is why the inferior design of the Rambo's point doesn't bother me as much. I would like a more versatile and rational point design, but it is not a deal breaker.

At the other end of the spectrum, the broad and heavy point of the GSO-10 did make a quite favourable impression on me, except for the annoyance of having to lay the knife down on the ground because it won't stick...

Gaston
 
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