Unexpectedly good budget blades?

[Blur1670]

Better move upscale to Master or United Cutlery then...

Gaston

I'll pass on the United cutlery BudK garbage.

 

[Siety338]

Not from the box, on either the United Cutlery and the Master Cutlery (they can do 1/8" notches as is: I consider 1/2" a minimum): This is because the saw tops are not angled down to the front. Many Liles sawbacks are angled down, but not the two-tone numbered Rambo IIs series of 100(!), and, it seems, very few of all the Sly IIs... (Most plain non-numbered Liles Rambo IIs appear correctly angled)

All the Lile movie knives are angled down on screen.

My Lile Rambo II was angled down as is, my Lile Sly II was not.

What I did to my United Cutlery RII is to have its sawback top angled down by 0.5 mm on each tooth by Josh at REK (easy does it on the angle: 1 mm is a bit much). This gave it an unusually aggressive action, but still you cannot expect much more than 1/2" notches on big/medium logs, 1" deep on 2" diameter branches at best: Going all around to 1/2" you might break a 3.5" log with ease, but that is the upper end. 1/2" deep notches, or an all-round 1/2" groove for breaking, is all you can realistically expect.

1/2" -3/4" with no effort is very good for a 1/4" thick sawback spine, and this value is typically only possible for the Lile design, because the blade is Full Flat Grind, making the top of the teeth the widest part. Most other designs are worse(!)...

My Master Cutlery, being less rare and valuable than the now hard to get UC (rarer than real Liles it now seems!), had its saw angled down with a dia-sharp extra coarse hone by hand by me(!): Surprisingly it worked great, but still offers no more than 1/2"-3/4" notches on most logs at reasonable effort. (I give these pessimistic values for a low effort, as I don't see the point of wasting a huge amount of energy to gain 1/4": These are realistic figures)

Bear in mind all other sawbacks are inferior to the Lile design (except one I will get to later): Parrish has a saber not Full Flat Grind blade profile (flat sides) that will bind after 1/4" (on top of a Full Flat Grind it would have been much better!). The Busse Battlesaw has trouble reaching 1/4" due to the push design. (Push saws need huge broad guards to push on: Busse only offer a narrow 1/4" wide "talon": This makes it almost an unworkable design...).

I used to think the Lile design was the best, mostly because it sits on top of the widest point of the blade. But I remember now the original 1985-86 vintage Aitor Jungle King I's triangular staggered two-row sawback as equivalent, despite the handicap of being not the widest part of the blade: On top of a saber grind, not a Full Flat Grind... (And it was a push saw!)

Triangular points in a stagger would be the most efficient sawback, provided this sat on top of a Full Flat Grind, making the triangular points sit wider than the blade: So far only one knife that I am aware of has ever offered this, the best possible of all sawback design: The SOG Team Leader (I think maybe a Kershaw also did, both being what I consider small knives at 5-6"):

If angled Liles sawbacks can do 1/2" to 3/4" at best, this above probably doubles or triples that... One downside of triangular point sawback is that pounding on triangular spine teeth is far more troublesome than the "flatter top" Lile saw design: This is made moot by the thin point design of the Lile Rambos, which mangles your baton inefficiently anyway: A flat full width spine, with no swedge, in the clip point of this design would work wonders for that purpose: I always hated the Lile point design for several reasons....

For the me the value of deep square notches, and the possible wood tinder, far outweights the disadvantages of sawbacks. On the flip side, the downsides of batoning outweight the good in my view, which is why the inferior design of the Rambo's point doesn't bother me as much. I would like a more versatile and rational point design, but it is not a deal breaker.

At the other end of the spectrum, the broad and heavy point of the GSO-10 did make a quite favourable impression on me, except for the annoyance of having to lay the knife down on the ground because it won't stick...

Gaston

Interesting

 

[TAH]

Many Liles sawbacks are angled down, but not the two-tone numbered Rambo IIs series of 100(!), and, it seems, very few of all the Sly IIs...

My Sly II sawback was angled down. Curious, of ALL the Sly IIs made, probably over 1000, how many have you personally inspected to make a statement like this?

 

[Gaston444]

My Sly II sawback was angled down. Curious, of ALL the Sly IIs made, probably over 1000, how many have you personally inspected to make a statement like this?

I said very few of all, because almost all of those I saw in pictures were flat topped non-angled teeth: Upwards of 90% out of a sample of 50-60 different ones at least. That means of the ones I saw, those that were properly angled I could probably count on one hand...

The workmanship on my (fully sandblasted w/no cord handle) Sly II was really terrible, with no angled teeth, and worse, a wavy surface all over the blade (the wobbles matching each tooth: An effect of the Lile's shop dual grinder). To top it off, the edge holding of its (apparently) 440C steel was very poor, but that became apparent only after a thinning re-grind to a Randall-like value of 0.020" behind the edge: It was not so apparent initially, so it is difficult to blame the Lile shop when the knife is so radically thinned/altered. That being said, the altering was due to the edge being initially 0.043" thick...

What I would say is this: Many (most?) un-numbered Lile Sly II/Rambo IIs display a simple sandblasted overall grey finish: This kind of crude finish is scuff-prone and is unacceptable for a knife of this price: These knives, including the few early "Mission" with cheap, flaky all-over black paint (not the movie-like knives with shiny edges), are very crudely finished. Get the better looking two-tones with polished edges whenever possible, as the two-tone finish forces the maker to grind the surfaces more correctly after the dual grinder has made the "waves" by going over each tooth. (Better yet, get an old UC with perfect surfaces from the start, and with equivalent or better steel that is far easier to sharpen)

Gaston

 

[deltablade]

you guys got me obsessing on one of these type knives, and I found this one for a good price. It had a dry powdery coating on the sheath and inside, and the rubber tubes were deteriorated. Otherwise all good.

 

[TAH]

Cool knife. Gotta love the 80s!

 

[Gaston444]

An old 1985-87 JK1 model, with the original triangular double row sawback!!

Probably one of the most effective sawback type of them all, even more so if it could find a Full Flat Grind blade...

Those versions of the JK1 are very rare. With an edge thinning re-grind it would be an excellent knife.

One thing I just noted recently with 420J "cheap knife" steel, under 20-25 degrees of bending it springs back to true, but beyond that it doesn't: It takes a significant set. I don't consider this a serious issue in any way, but for major heavy duty batoning of 9" twisty knotty logs (if that is your thing), 420J isn't the material you want.

Gaston

 

[deltablade]

i m not a batoning type guy. use my little hatchets for that stuff. thanks for the advice. i will convex the edge, and see how she works. I do wonder if all the powdery stuff might have come from a desert someplace. So was my $75. a good price on this one? It doesnt have a compass inside the handle cap, and wonder if I should add one, or keep it as is..

 

[Grimp2001]

Ok things seem to have gone a bit off topic here but loving to see all the suggestions! Amazing stuff and interesting to see what you guys recommend and EDC over the pond, as some of that gear is not available over here. Great to be involved in this stuff and will post pics of any forthcoming blades. Got a 2nd hand Viper Start incoming shortly

 

[BoozeFighter]

I was happy for years carrying a Kershaw Ososweet that I picked up for ~$20 CAD. I’ve since moved away from assisted opening knives, but when I first got it it was the coolest thing I had ever seen.

It is also the knife that led me to this place, and thanks to BF I have a huge selection of options to carry on any given day, plus an ever growing wish list of future additions.

 

[Zacboy7]

Red Jacket Firearms RJF 1911 Folding Utility Knife
- Custom patented pistol-grip design
- 8" total length
- 3.5" drop-point blade
- AUS-8a blade steel
- Ambidextrous thumb stud
- 4-way pocket clip position
- Lanyard

 

[SpySmasher]

Red Jacket Firearms RJF 1911 Folding Utility Knife
- Custom patented pistol-grip design
- 8" total length
- 3.5" drop-point blade
- AUS-8a blade steel
- Ambidextrous thumb stud
- 4-way pocket clip position
- Lanyard

The guys that make the RAT know a bit about quality budget knives but I don't think I'd want to carry anything Red Jacket branded.

 

[BeyondTheBox]

All Mora
All Terava
All Woodsknife Oy
Hultafors GK
Everything Sanrenmu (8Cr13MoV is true super steel with SRM heat treat, grind and factory edge)
Everything Ganzo (440C is true super steel and they nail the heat treat and grind.)

Honestly there are hundreds to thousands I could name individually, but I just buy and stay away from brands based on first hand experiences with them. And I prefer bang for buckers.

You can throw in pretty much any Buck hunting knife here too.

 

[MolokaiRider]

I was pleasantly surprised with the Ontario Utilitac 2. Its very inexpensive, has great action, a decent steel and ergos, and comes with a lanyard. I have four of them and they all are very fun to open/close and are pretty stout. The only thing that caught me off guard is that the AUS 8 seems to rust a little prematurely to what I expected.

 

[theAntihero]

Enlan el01

 

[Zacboy7]

The guys that make the RAT know a bit about quality budget knives but I don't think I'd want to carry anything Red Jacket branded.

This is a MUCH better knife than the Rat. I sold my Rat, it was a good knife, but to me it was not that impressive. If you had one ( RJF 1911 ) you would understand why. It is the same people that bring you the Rat. The way it fits your hand in any grip is amazing.

 

[KooKooforKukripuffs]

Ontario Old Hickory's - Most of them, especially the pig sticker for $9 and 7" Butcher for $11 and change

Make your own dam sheath, or do like I do and buy molded knife guards for $2 each to protect the edges

 

[BusyBailey]

Byrd Cara Cara 2 I cut down when I thought I was moving to a more restrictive state. I beat the mess out of that knife and she's still smooth and locks up tight.