Unintentional 1095 hamon??

[tony santovenia]

Leave the blade thicker when forging. When I started making knives, I had a tendency to calculate starting stock size to get to them close to final thickness, thinking like a blacksmith and not a blade smith and not wanting to waste steel. Being diligent about brushing off scale after each heat will help also.

Thanks weo, would you say that 1/8" thick stock is too thin for a beginner bladesmith then? Maybe start off with 1/4" stock? I have some 1/4" 5160 i can pound away at. Im have issues with ending up with a flat blade anyway because of my terrible hammering technique (im working on it). . It looks flat to me after forging but once i start grinding i start to see deep welts. Im pretty bad at brushing my scale off too.

 

[A.McPherson]

I’m very new to forging, but I’ve picking up a few tips...

1: try to hit in the same spot every time, move your work to achieve your goals. If you reach you will hit with the edges of your hammer and make big gouges.

2:make brushing your work a habit. Set up your workspace so that your brush is in easy reach while forging. When you finish a heat, grab your brush and wipe off your anvil and leave it on the face. When you come back on your next heat, you have to move the brush to forge. Use it instead.

 

[joedhiggins]

Thanks weo, would you say that 1/8" thick stock is too thin for a beginner bladesmith then? Maybe start off with 1/4" stock? I have some 1/4" 5160 i can pound away at. Im have issues with ending up with a flat blade anyway because of my terrible hammering technique (im working on it). . It looks flat to me after forging but once i start grinding i start to see deep welts. Im pretty bad at brushing my scale off too.

I work with thin starting stock all the time. Just avoid errant blows. Use a rounding hammer for the heavy work, learn when it is time to shift to a flat face(still with rounded edges). Reduce the force of your blows near the end. Also reduce your forging temperature as you near completion (move steel heavily at a higher heat and do your final planishing blows at a lower heat). I am not encouraging forging too cold as that will induce other issues.

Removing scale from your blade is all well and good, and brushing is fine, more important at higher temperatures. More importantly, keep your anvil clean. Near the end, when I am finalizing the bevels and planishing, I wont brush my blade as you don't have the heat to waste and your brushing is far less effective at lower temps. Also get a proper brush, not a standard wire brush, but rather one with flat bristles.

Finally, forge your bevels such that they terminate thick enough to grind your flats and leave about 30ish thou at the edge for HT.

 

[weo]

Thanks weo, would you say that 1/8" thick stock is too thin for a beginner bladesmith then? Maybe start off with 1/4" stock? I have some 1/4" 5160 i can pound away at. Im have issues with ending up with a flat blade anyway because of my terrible hammering technique (im working on it). . It looks flat to me after forging but once i start grinding i start to see deep welts. Im pretty bad at brushing my scale off too.

I guess it all depends on what type of blade you're forging. I do mainly kitchen knives and like my final blade to be around .070" at the thickest and keep final forging a little less than .125" (1/8") . The couple hunter/utility knives I've done have ended up at around .110" so final forging was more than 1/8". I have a store bought Gerber knife that is .190" at the thickest, so if you were to forge that, 1/4" (.250) would probably be to thin to start for forging, unless you were just going to forge the profile.

There's a good section in the stickies at the top of the forum on basic forging by Stacy. Here's a quote that's pertinent:

"When working from bar stock, plan on the final blade size and allow a little extra for grinding the edge and spine clean. Forging rarely leaves perfect surfaces. You will have to grind the dings out of the bevels, and grind the spine and edge straight and dent free. If planning on a blade that is about 1/8" thick and 1.5" wide. start with 1" by 1/4" stock. Forge the blade and bevels to about 3/16 by 1.75" and grind the final blade clean from that. You should end up right at 1/8" by 1.5"."

I think the suggestion about practicing with mild steel bar stock is a good idea. Don't look at it as a waste of fuel or grinding belts.
Have fun.

 

[weo]

Another suggestion would be to join your local blacksmith group and attend as many of their hammer-ins or conferences as you can.

 

[tony santovenia]

I’m very new to forging, but I’ve picking up a few tips...

1: try to hit in the same spot every time, move your work to achieve your goals. If you reach you will hit with the edges of your hammer and make big gouges.

2:make brushing your work a habit. Set up your workspace so that your brush is in easy reach while forging. When you finish a heat, grab your brush and wipe off your anvil and leave it on the face. When you come back on your next heat, you have to move the brush to forge. Use it instead.

Ok awesome! Noted, i actually barely ever brush my work

 

[tony santovenia]

I work with thin starting stock all the time. Just avoid errant blows. Use a rounding hammer for the heavy work, learn when it is time to shift to a flat face(still with rounded edges). Reduce the force of your blows near the end. Also reduce your forging temperature as you near completion (move steel heavily at a higher heat and do your final planishing blows at a lower heat). I am not encouraging forging too cold as that will induce other issues.

Removing scale from your blade is all well and good, and brushing is fine, more important at higher temperatures. More importantly, keep your anvil clean. Near the end, when I am finalizing the bevels and planishing, I wont brush my blade as you don't have the heat to waste and your brushing is far less effective at lower temps. Also get a proper brush, not a standard wire brush, but rather one with flat bristles.

Finally, forge your bevels such that they terminate thick enough to grind your flats and leave about 30ish thou at the edge for HT.

Thankyou for the really useful tips joe, i have a terrible habbit of not brushing my piece and even worse habit of not cleaning my anvil. I think ill try to forge on some thicker stock then to leave room for grinding my mistakes

 

[tony santovenia]

I guess it all depends on what type of blade you're forging. I do mainly kitchen knives and like my final blade to be around .070" at the thickest and keep final forging a little less than .125" (1/8") . The couple hunter/utility knives I've done have ended up at around .110" so final forging was more than 1/8". I have a store bought Gerber knife that is .190" at the thickest, so if you were to forge that, 1/4" (.250) would probably be to thin to start for forging, unless you were just going to forge the profile.

There's a good section in the stickies at the top of the forum on basic forging by Stacy. Here's a quote that's pertinent:

"When working from bar stock, plan on the final blasé size and allow a little extra for grinding the edge and spine clean. Forging rarely leaves perfect surfaces. You will have to grind the dings out of the bevels, and grind the spine and edge straight and dent free. If planning on a blade that is about 1/8" thick and 1.5" wide. start with 1" by 1/4" stock. Forge the blade and bevels to about 3/16 by 1.75" and grind the final blade clean from that. You should end up right at 1/8" by 1.5"."

I think the suggestion about practicing with mild steel bar stock is a good idea. Don't look at it as a waste of fuel or grinding belts.
Have fun.

Thanks weo, that clears up alot about starting thicknesses of flat stock and planning accordingly. Ive been trying to use 1/8" stock for 1/8 inch knives. I will pay a visit to said stickies

 

[tony santovenia]

Another suggestion would be to join your local blacksmith group and attend as many of their hammer-ins or conferences as you can.

Weo, that sounds like an awesome idea. Ive been wondering if theres such a thing down here close to me in naples, FL / southwest florida.

 

[Kali4nia]

I'd say you have a hamon, bring it out. Get some flitz polish and 1500 grit polishing powder. There is a wonderful tutorial on how a member here makes a hamon. Sand, Etch( 1 part acid , 4/5 parts distilled water, polish with flitz) (the green stuff, it removes oxides very efficiently). I use a paper towel or felt for polishing

 

[Kali4nia]

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/my-hamon-process.997744/

Here it is

 

[tony santovenia]

I'd say you have a hamon, bring it out. Get some flitz polish and 1500 grit polishing powder. There is a wonderful tutorial on how a member here makes a hamon. Sand, Etch( 1 part acid , 4/5 parts distilled water, polish with flitz) (the green stuff, it removes oxides very efficiently). I use a paper towel or felt for polishing

Thanks Kali4nia! So heres what i achieved with only using 3:1 Water to FC, neutralizing in windex, and polishing with mothers mag and aluminum polish using make up removal 100% cotton round pads.

For some reason the one side didnt develop a definitive hamon line, im sure its something I mustve done wrong. But the other side seemed to develop a nice dark line.

 

[Kali4nia]

Looks good! Keep trying. The uneven contrast could be uneven heating/ cooling.