First I have no intentions of closing this thread or deleting it. I can take heat like anyone else.
The knives that come through Dragon Forge are made in Taiwan. I will not argue whether or not they are knock offs because that would be foolish.
I do not make any of these knives. They are made by a company in Taiwan and they are really damn good knives for the money. We have tested each of them and they hold up quite nicely. This discussion has been brought up before and the subject of knock offs is always around on the boards somewhere.
That issue can be used against damn near everyone.
Does anyone actually think the Pinnacle is not a knock off of Chris Reeve? This is not to say I will sell knock off Benchmades because they knock off Chris. I just found a great source of knives that offer substantial value for the money and I will market them as long as there is a market for them. Or I could just drop the whole idea and go on another course. This is just a test to see how they will move. If they move, I will put more money into the project and approach makers to see if we can license designs. In fact I have every intention of meeting with Allen and with Pat to discuss these issues. Don't you think I could move a lot more if I had their blessing? The problem is that Allen is under contract with Benchmade and he may not be able to license another product. I am to blame for that because I was the one who introduced Allen to Benchmade and got that ball rolling. Either way I will look into it.
MPS,
I also think it's rather telling that a simple post of comparative pictures instantly has the resident censor so worried that I bet he's practically ready to lock this thread right from the start. Why is that? Is honest discussion to much to ask for?
You will note that this thread was not locked, and no one is censoring it,
or deleting it. You must be confusing BladeForums.com with something else.
WOW does not sell to the public and your argument is completely without grounds. I am not sure what you mean by we are heading that way. In fact we are heading the opposite way. I sold my retail business 3 years ago. WOW
may very well be sold in the next few weeks to a west coast company. I am about to launch 2 new companies totally unrelated to knives.
On what grounds do you base your arguement?
BladeForums is still in the red. I pay about $1,000 a month alone to keep this site up and we are not taking that much in through the store. The software used to run this site is not FREE, the links software is not FREE
and the banner software is not FREE, plus we just bought a server which cost many thousands of dollars. We have 19 banners running at a cost of $100 each. A drop in the bucket compared to the $20,000 + this site will cost me this year alone all paid for out of
MY pocket. We do plan to make revenues from the site to help offset the cost of running it. If you see a problem with that, then maybe you could help pay for it. Don't take the last statement personally or as an attack.
A long time ago we asked for donations to help keep the site running. To date we have received $0.00. I am not asking for a handout here just a hand (is that a trademark? sounds familiar). The profits from the store will
help offset the costs of running this site and the sales do not interfere with other dealers. I have to have some way to pay for this site or else it will become a liability and I will be forced to shut it down.
If I wanted this to be an extension of my business I would certainly not let many of the dealers who advertise here do so if they don't buy from me. Anyone and everyone is welcome. I would also have a ton of products in the BladeForums store. Geez with over 125,000 hits a day now I would have one
hell of a business! But I don't and won't. That is why we are getting the server. Through the funds we raise by hosting websites and other things we can do here, we should be able to make BladeForums self sufficient. This is also why we are seeking exclusive products to sell. We do not want to
interfere with dealers and I mean that, but remember they benefit from this site too so it is in their best interest that we keep it running. Just imagine how many hits we would be getting if we had the revenue to run ads
in the rags.
Now back to Dragon Forge
The vision I have for Dragon Forge is to bring out knives from Taiwan which are of good quality. I know they are not as good as Benchamde or any other famous US makers, but for the money they are Sweeeeeeet (Damn South Park). Then I will give them a name and a warranty which none of the other knives
offer. I have sold (Wholesale & Retail) knock offs for years. I can see if they are marketed directly against the original, they may do some harm, but the person looking for the $100+ original is not going to buy the knock off anyway. They are two distinct markets and they simply don't cross, and if
they do it is so rare that I have yet to
EVER see it and I have sold several million dollars in knives. No one has ever called me and said "Hey dude I just bought a knife from you and I thought I was getting the real thing" ever. However what I have seen is a customer come in and buy an inexpensive knife only to return later to buy and even more expensive knife and so on. I think most members can relate to that. And no they don't just buy the more expensive ones because they broke the el cheapo; they buy them because they are hooked like all of us in here.
Now if I wanted to, I could really show you all a plethora of knock offs in the marketplace made by very well known companies that we all know and admire. The Pinnacle is just one example.
If a maker contacts me and has a problem with any knife I sell, I will ditch it immediately. In the future I will actually send a knife to a maker that I believe is being knocked off and ask for permission to market the knife. My vision here is to do what has never been done and that is this.
In the box with the knife will be the knock off and a flyer that states the knife is a knock off of an original. The original makers name and address and web site will be in the box with the knife. I think the makers would
like this as it is not currently being done. Most people who buy a Stryker have no clue who Allen Elishewitz is. It is not on the box or in the box anywhere. Only on their web site and in their catalog which most people
never see. The knock offs are not going away and this is one way to at least give something back to the makers who make the original designs. However doing this may also be viewed as giving a green light to the
companies who make knock offs. I just think if the knock offs are going to be here regardless, the makers should make something off of them.
This should help custom makers increase their business.
Dragon Forge will be at the Blade Show and we will bring this idea up to each maker which has a knock off in the market.
One other thing to consider is that these knives have been out in the market for several years, and when I say these knives, I mean these,
specific knives. What I have done is put them under a common label
and offered a lifetime warranty on them, something that you will
never see with anyone else selling them. You could boycott Dragon Forge, but that is not going to change the fact that these knives were here before Dragon Forge, and will be here after Dragon Forge. All that will change is that there will be no Dragon Forge, no warranty, and I'll have to move on to something else.
But let's face it. How many of you actually buy these knives? Probably close to none, because you are better educated than most of the knife buying public. You buy Benchmades, Microtechs, and custom knives. You need to remember that these knives aren't marketed towards you. They are marketed towards people looking for a low end, medium quality knife that looks nice, but doesn't cost much. The people who want to make an impulse buy and have something they are happy with.
A few months ago, people were complaining because they couldn't get decent Butterfly knives from anywhere. Now I've provided them, and, on top of that, slapped a lifetime warranty on them. It's a double edged sword, I can either give you what you ask for, and do my best to make sure you are satisfied, or I can ignore what you want, and not answer your requests.
Either way, the knives are still going to be there, with or without me putting them under the Dragon Forge name. I just thought I would do it, because I would offer something that no one else would, at a similar price.
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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 11 April 1999).]
