Unrealistic Expectations

[Kohai999]

once fully educated, no longer a newb?

You wish.

It's like being a physican or a lawyer....until you get blood on your hands in the sense of buying, selling and using, the knowledge is theoretical.

It's how you as the collector or user of a knife handle ALL the aspects of knifedom that define YOUR position, just like makers and their market position.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Lorien]

by newb I was referring to someone just discovering custom knives, like maybe the guy who buys a handmade knife at a gun show or wherever who tweaks to the ivory handle yet knows nothing about taking care of that material. Or the guy who buys a polished carbon steel knife and stores it in its sheath wet and dirty from use for a long period of time. Both situations could lead to the newb turning away from custom knives, I would think. Because maybe they have unrealistic expectations based upon the price.

I'm still new to custom knives but I have enough of an education to know how knives are generally made and generally the propensity for certain materials to have particular characteristics. So, I know enough to avoid certain types of materials because I don't want to have to stay on top of them, just like your preference in that regard Steven.

If a guy at a knife show sells a knife with an elephant ivory handle to a buyer who might be buying his first custom knife without educating him/her on the proper upkeep, knowing that the buyer lives in a drastically different climate from where the knife is, then who's responsible when the knife handle checks or shrinks? Seems like many knife makers chiming in on this thread take that responsibility, but if you're a guy shelling out big bucks on something you know nothing about but desire the thing because it's amazing, then I would think that guy should at least do a bit of homework.

That's more the situation I was thinking of. Not quite the same situation a lot of folks here are talking about, but one which occurred to me.
But yes, of course I'm still a newb I won't deny that.

 

[Kohai999]

....by newb I was referring to someone just discovering custom knives, like maybe the guy who buys a handmade knife at a gun show or wherever who tweaks to the ivory handle yet knows nothing about taking care of that material. Or the guy who buys a polished carbon steel knife and stores it in its sheath wet and dirty from use for a long period of time. Both situations could lead to the newb turning away from custom knives, I would think. Because maybe they have unrealistic expectations based upon the price.

Custom ANYTHING is not for everybody.

If a buyer is not going to put in the time up front to learn about whatever custom object they desire, there is a very good chance that they are not going to be a satisfied and contributing member of this community.

I frequently say that knife collecting is a full contact sport.

Anyone that is not willing and able to do the research and learn what is going on will not last for any length of time. Simply the amount of patience required to get EXACTLY what you want is enough to drive many away.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Mr. Clean]

I can't help but wonder if we sometimes expect too much, or perhaps our expectations may be a bit too unrealistic regarding our knives. In another thread I think John White says it best:

"If we're going to use natural materials like ivory, wood, stag, and horn, we have to understand that natural materials will "breathe" and move small amounts, and allow for that in our building methods. We also have to understand there may be occasional problems, and be willing to stand behind our work."

I might add that as customer, when we do decide to purchase a knife using natural materials it may be unrealistic to expect the maker to fix problems time and time again on the same knife. This may not be possible if the maker is deceased. In my opinion, checking of ivory, slight shrinkage etc. is part of the game, especially on older pieces.

With some collectibles some wear, or movement of materials is considered normal and does not severely effect the value of the piece.

Bob

Good lord there's a member here I need to PM this post to.

Spot on in my opinion Bob, spot on.

 

[Mark Knapp]

Spots on blades? One of the reasons that I don't purchase straight carbon blades anymore. Spots is rust or staining....not acceptable on a knife that I wish to collect.

10+ years old? A drop in the bucket....already have knives that are 25 years old, purchased new from the makers....pristine.

The idea of "honest aging" is something akin to sentimentality in collecting...."oh look it's got patina, that's worth something, right?".....uh no, it isn't. The slipjoint crowd likes that stuff, but not usually in custom knives....they are a nutso group anyway, collecting things like elephant toenails....that's just retarded...really, I'm not joking....let's go out of our way to collect the ugliest folding knife pattern ever created.

That aside, do what you want, collect what you want, it is your money and time.....BUT....at some time, down the line, when something needs to be moved, the market tends to look at things through the lens of "perfect condition is desireable" and not "Grandpa's pocketworn knife sure is swell and I want to buy it".

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

STeven, this is truly amazing to me, that you have knives that are twenty-five years old and in mint condition, (not doubting you for a second). I am not a huge collector by any means (more of a maker, but you know that)but to narrow myself to such a narrow range of materials that would allow that kind of longevity would exclude some of the most exciting and coolest materials available (to me). I do get it though; you find excitement in form, balance and design, over materials. We don't have a quarrel, we just like different things.

The elephant toenail thing is too funny , you gotta be impressed with the way they have appreciated though; a knife that sold for three bucks new can be worth over $1,500.00 today, 70 years is a long time to wait, though. I have one, my wife found it at a garage sale, paid a buck for it, it's pretty rare so I'm amped to have it.

I do get the Return-on-investment thing, the trade off for me is worth it, to have the rich colors and textures of natural materials over synthetics.

Best, Mark

 

[Kohai999]

STeven, this is truly amazing to me, that you have knives that are twenty-five years old and in mint condition, (not doubting you for a second). I am not a huge collector by any means (more of a maker, but you know that)but to narrow myself to such a narrow range of materials that would allow that kind of longevity would exclude some of the most exciting and coolest materials available (to me). I do get it though; you find excitement in form, balance and design, over materials. We don't have a quarrel, we just like different things.

I do get the Return-on-investment thing, the trade off for me is worth it, to have the rich colors and textures of natural materials over synthetics.

Best, Mark

1. I like the illusion of unspoiled, lasting beauty....something like a Ron Gaston fighter from 1991 in pearl and satin finished ATS-34. It makes my heart go pitty pat every time. Don't have to stab someone with it in order to appreciate it, right?

2. The vast majority of knives I have even old ones, are handled in natural materials...pearl, stag, wood. Maybe I just got lucky, but the problems with knives have mostly been spotting on carbon blades. This is very difficult to mitigate on something like a Don Fogg with hamon, but for those very rare pieces like this one, it is worthwhile.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Lorien]

^your storing your knives individually in quality zipped cases probably helps keep them minty fresh (?).

Drastic temperature changes cause condensation and my guess is that will kill the finish on a knife or mess with 'less stable' handle material more than anything. Am I right?

My knives live in a wooden box in the garage, which is unheated, and I have a bunch of silica pouches like what comes with electronic equipment in there as well. The temperature in the garage changes with the seasons, but very gradually and I have yet to notice corrosion or anything like that attacking my goodies.

Condensation is probably worth thinking about when one receives delivery of a knife. It's probably insulated from drastic temperature changes whilst in its delivery box, so I wonder if for particular materials whether it's worth leaving it in there for awhile while the temperature in the box slowly matches that of the surrounding environment. Does that make any sense?

 

[RogerP]

Drastic changes in humidity probably have more of an impact on stability than changes in temperature, though the two frequently go hand-in-hand.

Roger

 

[Don Hanson III]

I keep natural handle materials at least a year and usually two years+ before I use them. I do this even when told the material is old and dry. I rarely have any problems with ivory, fossil or not.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Don't forget the bubble wrap!

Bubble Wrap (especially the larger bubble type) not only protects knives against shock but also offers an excellent insulation material against extreme temperature change which can be problematic to handle materials. You never know when a package is going to be left too close to a direct heat source and/or temperatures can drop drastically and very quickly in the cargo hull of large planes flying at high altitudes.