Unspeakable evil after Tsunami.

I am distressed believing you could not easily substitute a German Businessman, a Korean Banker, or any of the international community in place of the Ugly American. It was an example only, and seemed best to use my Nation instead of another's in today's contentious world. Munk


If this thread is about the horrors of the exploitation of children. The fact that the Tsunami has brought attention to this atrocity is good. But before the Tsunami and after the Tsunami children have been abused in this way in this part of the world. It is bad it should be stopped but it hasn't. No society can be successful with such a low morale standard.

My real problem from the start is why did you use an "American" to tell your story? Naturally the attention has shifted to nationality rather then the perverted act. The act is what the tread was about and how awful it is. To take attention away from this immoral act seems demean the subject. In my humble opinion. Why use any nationality why not westerner or foreigner that would have kept the attention on the crime not the criminal. Your clarity in your writings must be too clear for me to understand what your trying to say.



Joe
 
Gentlemen,
Let me tell you something. In Japan, people discuss problems like these but NEVER in the context of what the JAPANESE themselves have done.
I believe it is like this in many countries.
That is one difference between America and the rest of the world.
For good or bad, public criticism of one's own government and one's own country is just not done over here, and to me, that is the proof of a false democracy, a socialist sham of a nation.
A healthy, democratic society is a dynamic, boistrous society.
Keep it up.
 
Dear Joe:

I used the phrase 'ugly american' because it is a universal phrase and symbol. I believe it was first used in literature and then a movie in the 1960's, and has become synonomous with Tourists from any urban psuedo-sophisticated area into another culture.

As we both agree depravity is not strictly an American characteristic, but is in every society, I cannot see any area for misunderstanding.



munk
 
You mean how much wood could a Woodchuck chuck if a Woodchuck could chuck wood?




munk
 
The Ugly American was first a book, and it in fact showed the down to earth "ugly" guy ( something of an Uncle Bill type ) who reached out on a personal level and offered his knowlege to the common man abroad as the good one. It was the "pretty" guy of the book - the foreign service type - who was in fact the really true "ugly american.

Munk is pretty consistent when he tells you why he did or said something the way he did. My experience with just pedophiles is similar to his. They are wired wrong, and it's permanent. That they do terribly wrong things if they are allowed to doesn't lessen their need for treatment as fellow humans,

I'll have to defer judgement on the businessman overseas of any nationality who takes the opportunity to do despicable things. Unless of course I run into one. If I do, I sure hope those empty mineshafts I remember are still open for discrete "disposal".
 
Unless of course I run into one. If I do, I sure hope those empty mineshafts I remember are still open for discrete "disposal".>>>>>>>

We could do it, we could make the desert bloom. We have the fertilizer to fill those shafts.



munk
 
Bobwhite,

I wasn't accusing you. I feel we're in total agreement on Thai situation. Something is indeed terribly wrong over there, and the right people are looking the wrong way.

Rusty and Munk:

AMEN!!!!

Some life simply should be cheap out there in the Brazos!

Nam
 
namaarie said:
Satori,

I largely have faith in our armed forces. In the people, I mean. I think that they really want to do the right thing.

And I know that these terrorist bastids want to do evil.

I've got to watch how I say this...I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I am trying to stimulate discussion.

You're right to have faith in your armed services. We have faith in the taxpayers. For those of us who were around in the Clinton era and before, we're really enjoying this shift in public perception. (That remark is in no way aimed toward you.) It's a nice time to be active. I distinctly recall flying home in 10/01 in my dress whites (I thought of it as a show of force, but really it was because my beloved grandmother gets a big kick out of seeing me in uniform and I'd promised her that I would arrive this way) and getting free drinks - and a lot of "Thank you's" - from all ten people on that 747 with me. Having these people that I've never met coming up and shaking my hand and giving me heartfelt thanks, is the most touching thing that I've ever experienced during my life. I still get "Thank you's" today. I still appreciate them. Not everyone thinks of me like that today. They don't need to. I remember how they thought of me back then.

Understand, though, that the terrorist bastids don't believe that what they're doing is evil. They believe in their cause as well. They refuse to "fight like a man" because they lack the means to "fight like a man." They fight like a cheating bastid instead, and don't be too hard on them; were the roles reversed, you and I would be fighting against them like cheating bastids and sleeping soundly at night for doing so.

The more the various factions in the world fight, the more deeply ingrained our distrust and disdain of one another will be. If we - and they - don't want another fourty years of this, we're going to have to figure out some sort of middle ground. It's very easy (and sometimes accurate) to point fingers at the other side and call them savages, but they have some legitimate gripes about the way we do business as well...they just have a different way of, erm, expressing their dissatisfaction. (Not to make light of some of these deeds, but that's the way they look at it.) I have no doubts that my side of the conflict will win; not only do we have the equipment and the will, but we have the adaptability and the capacity to think outside the box. In short, my chosen side in this has every strength of the other side, plus a whole lot more, minus the weaknesses. I know that my side will win. I'd rather that we struck an equitable truce next year, rather than fighting about it for the rest of my natural life. I believe (correctly or incorrectly, this is up to the reader) that my side is making an effort to meet the other side halfway. I hope they accept it. I - and others like me - don't hold grudges easily. I hope there are others like this on the other side.

There's no easy answer to this, but someone - obviously smarter than me - is going to have to figure this out sooner or later. Sooner is definitely better. I'm a big, ugly bastid from peasant stock that's bred to do jobs most folks don't want to do. :D I'm built for this, it's cool, life goes on. I'd hate to see others get drawn up in this. Humping crates of ammo sucks. ;)

Like I said, it's complicated and I'm a simple man. I can think of many good reasons to kill people but religion is never one of them. I get depressed when a war becomes one of religion, to one side, the other, or both. There really are better things to fight over, as callous as that sounds.

One of my favorite movies of all time is "Das Boot." I like it because I used to be a submariner; I like it because I'm of German ancestry; however, neither of these reasons are why I really like it. My primary reason to like it is because of just how good a job it does of getting one - an American, at the very least - to root for the "bad guy." He is a human being...even if he may not act like one at certain times in certain circumstances, and there are people that will miss him when he's gone, if not us.

It was intended as an antiwar movie. I think it accomplishes that very well. That, maybe ironically, is not one of the things I like it for. Wars have been fought since mankind remembers. Wars must be fought and will continue to be fought. That's fine. We must always - always - ensure that they are fought for the right reasons and only the right reasons, bearing in mind that whenever a war is fought, people - usually a lot of them - will die. To do anything else is criminal. There is a place for criminals in this world, but I don't want to be there.
 
I agree with most of your post, Satori, except that if the roles were reversed I don't think I'd be blowing up civilians, and would never attempt to stop a free election for my nation.

And actually, not that many Iraqi's are doing that, relative to population, most of the trouble is with Syrian foreign agents, Al Queda, and former Bath' party members.

>>>>>>>>>>

Fox news did a spot on the human trafficing. Groups are taking advantage of the chaos in coastal Asia and children are being hurt.

Perhaps one good thing to come after so much death, if the international community became motivated and aware of the abuse of women and children, and we did something about it.

I hope that would be a Capitalistic, Imperialist project we could all support.


munk
 
munk said:
I agree with most of your post, Satori, except that if the roles were reversed I don't think I'd be blowing up civilians, and would never attempt to stop a free election for my nation.

And actually, not that many Iraqi's are doing that, relative to population, most of the trouble is with Syrian foreign agents, Al Queda, and former Bath' party members.

I don't think that I'd be blowing up civilians either - I'm not convinced that all of these civilian attacks are meant to be as such. The target moves. The intel was faulty. We blow up civilians too from time to time. It happens in warfare. That's one of the problems with it. The ones that do it intentionally need their heads straightened.

I agree with your assessment of the situation - 10% of the population causing 90% of the problems. We face something similar, if maybe not intense, in our part of the world as well. Regardless of whether their cause is just or not (and whether we believe it to be as such), they're convinced that it is and that's one of the problems that must be addressed.
 
munk said:
I agree with most of your post, Satori, except that if the roles were reversed I don't think I'd be blowing up civilians, and would never attempt to stop a free election for my nation.

And actually, not that many Iraqi's are doing that, relative to population, most of the trouble is with Syrian foreign agents, Al Queda, and former Bath' party members.

>>>>>>>>>>

Fox news did a spot on the human trafficing. Groups are taking advantage of the chaos in coastal Asia and children are being hurt.

Perhaps one good thing to come after so much death, if the international community became motivated and aware of the abuse of women and children, and we did something about it.

I hope that would be a Capitalistic, Imperialist project we could all support.


munk

Munk,

I completely agree with this post. Completely.


Satori,

My objection to the terrorists (and why I call them bastids) is not their ends, but rather their means. They kill innocents to prove a point. They kill election workers because they think their radical minority ideology is the only way. They *knowingly, willfully, gladly* murder noncombatants. If our situation was reversed, I think I would resist, but not like that. That's what makes them evil bastids.

And, to make matters worse, they do it while saying, "God is Great!" Theirs is a holy war, in which death is really not so bad.

Furthermore, the more we fight them, the more of them there are.

So, I guess, that means this will be a long, hard war.

Nam
 
It's OK by me if you feel it's time to move on. This would be a good place to let it drop - with civility and courtesy being observed by all.
 
Rusty said:
It's OK by me if you feel it's time to move on. This would be a good place to let it drop - with civility and courtesy being observed by all.

Oh hell, we done got the mod involved. :)

I think everyone's stated their piece. I'm far more used to Usenet than forums like this so my style can be a bit abrasive; if I offended anyone, I apologize and hope there are no hard feelings. There are certainly none on this end.

Ben - why is it that only bad news sells? There's certainly a lesson to be learned here.
 
Back
Top