Unusual Hudson Bay head ID

Yep, a Hudson bay with teeth and fangs. I would imagine they still have the dies for those. They could make a killing on those if they brought them back.
Can't make an axe with a good old fashion high center line or a decent heat treat but fangs and nonsense is no problem.
Excuse the rant, but it happens every time some one posts one of those.
 
quinton said:
I have a like new, with paint Council FSS boy's axe I refuse to hang because it has a "dent" in the edge instead of a chip.
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o_O LOL!
Have I mentioned how well I get along with the folks from south of the mason dixon line? :D
It's time for a beer now...
 
garry3 said:
Yep, a Hudson bay with teeth and fangs. I would imagine they still have the dies for those. They could make a killing on those if they brought them back.
Can't make an axe with a good old fashion high center line or a decent heat treat but fangs and nonsense is no problem.
Excuse the rant, but it happens every time some one posts one of those.
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Can't speak for all of their axes but all of the Classic Jerseys I've seen have high centerlines, and I've heard from others that many of their other axes do as well...I do agree that they could increase the hardness of their heat treating, but I think the remark about high centerlines is dubious.
 
quinton said:
I have a like new, with paint Council FSS boy's axe I refuse to hang because it has a "dent" in the edge instead of a chip.
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It's likely just a soft spot from the grinding process. File it out and I bet it gets harder.
 
Not only that but while it's best to not have an edge take damage at all, it's much better to have an edge that will roll rather than chip. Chips can really blow out in a bad way that takes much more steel out of the edge than if it had simply rolled. There's a balance to be struck and I don't disagree that Councils are generally softer than they could be, but they're far from unusable and they're at least erring on the proper side. Compare to all the reports over the years of Gransfors axes getting huge chips out of them.
 
I will take the harder bit every time. Just doesn't seem right to have one roll. Harder holds an edge better. I flip a few heads but I have a keeper box for heads that I want to keep. There are no soft ones in that box. Sometimes I keep an unassuming head just because it's exceptionally hard.
 
One wants a hard edge, but not a brittle one. There's a difference. Certain steels, properly heat treated, are able to retain toughness at high hardness and will still roll rather than chip under most circumstances. Just saying that a roll instead of a chip isn't inherently a bad thing, and can even be a good thing.
 
First thing I look at when I refurbish an old axe is the prior damage. It's the first clue on how it will file. I want to see small chips not dents. Personal preference.
 
This is a plumb ax. This is a good strong high centerline. Period.

IMG_20170607_102721_829.jpg

This is a council tool classic Jersey. This is not a high centerline. It is mildly convex at best. Nobody would be incorrect for thinking this a flat cheeked ax by feel and sight if they never had stuck a straight edge on it. It certainly sticks. But one would be lying if they knew what a high centerline on an ax meant and claimed this one had a "good strong high centerline".

IMG_20170607_102653_227.jpg
 
garry3 said:
I will take the harder bit every time. Just doesn't seem right to have one roll. Harder holds an edge better. I flip a few heads but I have a keeper box for heads that I want to keep. There are no soft ones in that box. Sometimes I keep an unassuming head just because it's exceptionally hard.
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I'm with Garry on this one. I want the durability and edge retention of the harder steel. True Temper Flint Edge is a great example. It will chip but not catastrophically.
 
No high center line on this one either. Its not a new axe but its not very old. Maybe things have changed?
Its a 4lb dayton.
P1010018_zps826rjtny.jpg
 
Even that amount convexness will help. It will be much easier to unstick than a truly flat-cheeked axe. But better is that Plumb that Woodcraft posted. Better not to stick in the first place.
 
Square_peg said:
I'm with Garry on this one. I want the durability and edge retention of the harder steel. True Temper Flint Edge is a great example. It will chip but not catastrophically.
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Them better axes just don't dent.
I read an author state that "you will never break a poor axe but you can break a good one". Can't remember where I read that but it pretty much sums it up for me.
 
Square_peg said:
I'm with Garry on this one. I want the durability and edge retention of the harder steel. True Temper Flint Edge is a great example. It will chip but not catastrophically.
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My point was that a rolled edge is not necessarily a sign that a particular axe is "too soft". Depending on the steel and heat treatment it's possible for you to have to axes of equal hardness and, when subjected to the same strain, to have one chip and the other roll. Now, given Council is known for being on the soft side, he's probably right in this case that his axe is relatively soft. I'm simply saying that I'd rather have a given steel heat treated in such a way that it's at the threshold of what will roll rather than chip rather than crossing over that line. Brittleness is never a desirable quality in a swung tool. Hardness and brittleness may be linked, but it's not a strict 1:1 relationship.

garry3 said:
No high center line on this one either. Its not a new axe but its not very old. Maybe things have changed?
Its a 4lb dayton.
P1010018_zps826rjtny.jpg
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That's certainly not a strong high centerline but it's clearly not flat either. Flat means flat, yeah? ;)
 
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