UPDATE - Titanium Military Models with Reeve Integral Locks (R.I.L.)

[razorburn]

Do all BM framelocks have a steel lockbar face ? Razorburn, what kind of BM framelocks do you have ?

Of all the framelock knives,I have and it is a fact the large Sebenza 21,a BM skirmish and a mini-skirmish;all have steel lockbars.


Here a pic of the lockbar of a sebenza(A pic of an other members knife)

I know that the Bradley Alias made by Benchmade has a steel lockbar because, a few months ago,there was a member that comment on it.

http://199.231.142.3/forums/showthread.php?t=643340

 

[powernoodle]

You could always sell the "old" version and wait for the new.

I am doing 'zactly that right now, though I don't think I'll be buying a new one.

 

[hardheart]

I know that the Bradley Alias made by Benchmade has a steel lockbar because, a few months ago,there was a member that comment on it.

http://199.231.142.3/forums/showthread.php?t=643340

That topic very clearly discusses the machining done to the titanium lockface to produce the lip. I had a Skirmish & it had the same feature and no steel in the lockbar. Sebenzas have a hardened Ti lockface.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Of all the framelock knives,I have and it is a fact the large Sebenza 21,a BM skirmish and a mini-skirmish;all have steel lockbars.


Here a pic of the lockbar of a sebenza(A pic of an other members knife)

I know that the Bradley Alias made by Benchmade has a steel lockbar because, a few months ago,there was a member that comment on it.

http://199.231.142.3/forums/showthread.php?t=643340

And what makes that a steel lock face in that picture? Because it has a different finish? Steel and Ti can't be welded together so it will have to be attached by some mechanical means. The Sebenza does NOT have a steel lock face and neither do any of the Benchmade knives I have. It doesn't sound like you have any Benchmade knives even though you prefer them. If you read that thread a little more you will see there is no steel insert in the Bradley either. This is not a common feature on ti frame lock knives.

Edit: I also have a large and small Skirmish and neither have a steel insert as I just confirmed again. Just another example of why not to trust the internet for your 'facts'.

 

[Josh K]

Sounds similar to the ceramic ball on the end of the lock that Chris Reeve put in the Umnumzaan.

+1, though I prefer the ceramic ball because it makes opening and unlocking so darn smooth! No need for a separate dedent ball either.

Nice to hear that all future spydercos will have a steel lockbar face framelocks like the CRK sebenzas and BM framelocks.I did suspect that they were just bare titanium lockbars that is why I prefer Benchmade framelocks and have avoided spyderco's.

That's completely false. CRK doesn't do that, and neither does BM.

Do all BM framelocks have a steel lockbar face ? Razorburn, what kind of BM framelocks do you have ?

No, he is incorrect.

 

[stabman]

Of all the framelock knives,I have and it is a fact the large Sebenza 21,a BM skirmish and a mini-skirmish;all have steel lockbars.

You are absolutely wrong.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Did I mention that you are wrong?
It is titanium, TITANIUM, not steel.

 

[felix7]

I personally like a lot more titanium frame-locks without the steel insert, it will probably be beneficial to wear, but IMO the most beautiful thing about framelock it is simplicity; I strongly prefer the Reeve approach, the special treatment on the frame.
Or if this treatment it's too expensive I prefer the entire handle made by steel.

for future upgrades I will suggest:
-tip up, please do it; keep the military tip down out of the box (if you are worried about the "dangerous" tip up), but give us the option to choose
-bigger screws for the spacers, I don't understand the use of the tiny T6 on such a big knife, they strip easily & also aesthetically I find T8 (no need for mega screws ...just full size ) a better choice for the Millitary; also it would be nice to have T8 for the clip (with a new clip design Tip up dx-down dx, I will prefer 2 T8 than 3 T6), so you can use only 2 torx drivers to do the disassembly of the knife and work with full size screws ...for the "tiny" Military .

With these upgrades It will be a must have for me

P.S: the steel insert was allready used in knives before the SR-1.

 

[Josh K]

I personally like a lot more titanium frame-locks without the steel insert, it will probably be beneficial to wear, but IMO the most beautiful thing about framelock it is simplicity; I strongly prefer the Reeve approach, the special treatment on the frame.
Or if this treatment it's too expensive I prefer the entire handle made by steel.

for future upgrades I will suggest:
-tip up, please do it; keep the military tip down out of the box (if you are worried about the "dangerous" tip up), but give us the option to choose
-bigger screws for the spacers, I don't understand the use of the tiny T6 on such a big knife, they strip easily & also aesthetically I find T8 (no need for mega screws ...just full size ) a better choice for the Millitary; also it would be nice to have T8 for the clip (with a new clip design Tip up dx-down dx, I will prefer 2 T8 than 3 T6), so you can use only 2 torx drivers to do the disassembly of the knife and work with full size screws ...for the "tiny" Military .

With these upgrades It will be a must have for me

P.S: the steel insert was allready used in knives before the SR-1.

Just to throw my dissenting hat into the ring.

No tip up carry.

 

[TLR]

You are absolutely wrong.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Did I mention that you are wrong?
It is titanium, TITANIUM, not steel.

I think you're close to the number of wrongs it takes to make a right so I'll go ahead and give it to you.

Stabman... you are right.

 

[aivonline]

tazkristi, Spyderco guys, could you please advise whether it will be possible to send my current(old)-issue Ti-Milie to you to rework the framelock and to upgrade it with the insert.

I'm not very happy with it since the contact area of the blade tang and the framelock is just 1/4 of the total framelock area.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

tazkristi, Spyderco guys, could you please advise whether it will be possible to send my current(old)-issue Ti-Milie to you to rework the framelock and to upgrade it with the insert.

I'm not very happy with it since the contact area of the blade tang and the framelock is just 1/4 of the total framelock area.

I can't speak for Spyderco but if I were to guess I would say 'NO'. When upgrades like this are made a lot of times there are geometry changes that won't allow a simple add-on. I would not worry about it though because many frame lock and liner lock knives are made like that where only a part of the lock bar actually comes into contact with the blade tang. The addition of the steel insert will probably not increase this contact area.

However, rest assured that if you ever have a problem with the lock on your knife that Spyderco will take care of the problem. If you actually manage to wear your knife out which can take a long time then you might get an upgraded replacement at that time. Just don't abuse your knife hoping it will wear out faster because their warranty doesn't cover abuse.

 

[notos&w]

My Buck Mayo TNT doesn't have an insert. Eight years and still going strong. This is an improvement but it doesn't mean the first runs are now crap. Use it. Or make me a deal and I'll buy it.

 

[Handwrecker]

Just to throw my dissenting hat into the ring.

No tip up carry.

I second that. I've tried my Military tip up in my pocket and it feels like crap with all of the readjusting your hand has to do to reach the Spyder hole. Tip down puts your thumb right into the hole as soon as you grab it.

Seems like a waste of Spyderco's time, especially since STR and others can do the conversion cheaply, easily, and professionally.

 

[STR]

I second that. I've tried my Military tip up in my pocket and it feels like crap with all of the readjusting your hand has to do to reach the Spyder hole. Tip down puts your thumb right into the hole as soon as you grab it.

Seems like a waste of Spyderco's time, especially since STR and others can do the conversion cheaply, easily, and professionally.

I never thought it was all that easy to be honest. I'm sure their job using modern CNC machinery is much cleaner and more precise also compared to anything I've ever done by hand. The addition of a stainless insert will help wear rates improve and reduce indenting. Stainless locks are a bit less forgiving than ti locks when it comes to the blade contact so only a company doing their locks spot on could pull it off and Spyderco has been using stainless for a long time. I think they can handle it. Ti tends to stick to the blade and that natural galling tendency can actually make up for some slightly off contacts that would be a little, well, less than ideal for stainless lets just say that. Stainless can tend to slide on the contact easier from spine pressure on a contact that is not quite spot on where ti tends to bite into it and stick covering up the problem you could say but its this bite into it tendency that is likely what causes the wear rate for titanium to be faster in this application also. Its debatable as are other theories regarding this lock type but seriously its worth a try and I applaud Spyderco doing this. If it reduces repairs because the lock wears better and longer or makes the repairs that are necessary to locks that much easier it may even be possible when a blade play issue comes up that this new feature makes for a quicker turn around. You never know it could even be a part that could be mailed out to a customer much the same as a replacement pocket clip is now. Just a thought.

STR

 

[goodeyesniper]

I never understood people's fascination for a tip up Military. I LOVE tip up on smaller knives. And I have pretty decent sized hands, and long fingers, but it's still quite a stretch deploying the blade on a tip up knife with a long handle like the military.

It takes much more hand rearranging on the handle to get it open and ready for use, for ME. Anything larger with a spyderhole, tip down works so much better. Once again, this is for me. But I can't see ANYONE actually being able to deploy better/faster with tip up on a knife like the Millie. Unless they have straight up E.T. fingers or something.

 

[C Ben Susrool]

To me and others, comfort in the hand is a lot more desirable than speed of deployment.

Which is one reason we favor tip up.

 

[Josh K]

To me and others, comfort in the hand is a lot more desirable than speed of deployment.

Which is one reason we favor tip up.

I find the current clip position very comfortable. I doubt it would be improved any by switching the clip.

 

[goodeyesniper]

To me and others, comfort in the hand is a lot more desirable than speed of deployment.

Which is one reason we favor tip up.

Ah, thanks. To be honest, that's never really even crossed my mind. On all of my knives, whether tip up or down, the clip has never bugged me, hell never even notice it while cutting.

but I could see how it could :thumbup:

 

[softrockrenegade]

This is dumb ! Why doesn't any other ti framelock have problems ?

 

[stabman]

This is dumb ! Why doesn't any other ti framelock have problems ?

Read more posts around the forums; they do.