Ups Arrrrggghhhhh!

Marcelo Cantu

Marcelo Cantu

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The UPS driver missed my package on his truck but there is no info about it through tracking until after they close, and they're not even open on the weekend. I call customer service--"sorry sir". I would never send them my business.
 
That's why I ALWAYS use USPS Priority Mail...It's cheaper, alot quicker delivery-times, and they deliver (and are open) on Saturday.
 
What Glockman said. I had nothing but trouble with UPS. I had to drive 50km to get my package on three consecutive ocassions because they deliver between 9 AM to 5 PM (no more exact time frame available), they don't deliver on Saturday and from time to time they don't even leave you a passage note. :mad:
I received good service from USPS GP or Express every time.
 
UPS ABSOLUTELY SUCKS!!!!!!!!

I refuse to do ANY business with them and hate it when anything is shipped to me via those bastards....... :mad:
 
glockman99 said:
That's why I ALWAYS use USPS Priority Mail...It's cheaper, alot quicker delivery-times, and they deliver (and are open) on Saturday.
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UPS ground averages 2.3 days from our location. Priority mail averages 2.6 days so priority mail is not faster. The post office won't pick up and will only accept 10 packages for shipment at one time. That and the lack of ability to track and a loss rate nearly 50 times that of UPS makes it actually more expensive for us. The cost to deliver on Saturday is prohibitive so I'll grant you that point.
 
USPS will do pickup for Express and pRiority packages with no limit on amount of packages(as logn as you haven't pissed off your postman). Or so their website syas, I've never bothered to try using it(though ahve a timing belt tensioner to mail Monday, might do that if I get it packaged in time)
 
Are y'all talking about the same UPS (brown trucks, Dale Jarrett) that we have around here? (here=midsouth US) And the same USPS? I'll grant you, I have an easy to get along with mail man, but that's not normal for these parts. And the only Saturday open Post Offices are every now and then around Christmas. Express Mail=1-2 days? The last 10 I've sent have all been the 2nd day or more. Prority Mail is paying for what should be 1st class service. I've never had a problem with UPS as long as the address was correct. If it is not or either you aren't home, then yes it is a pain, 3 tries & its gone. (back to point of origin) & I'll give that you'll probably need god's help to catch it at the hub, but it can be done. And they'll gladly deliver Saturday next day air from Friday as long as you tell them & pay $12.50 more & around here it's about as reliable as tomorrow. I'm not doubting you, I'm just commenting on how the standards of service can vary within an organization depending upon the region. Around here people generally consider going to the Post Office with the same enthusiasm as going to their dentist.
 
etp777 said:
USPS will do pickup for Express and pRiority packages with no limit on amount of packages(as logn as you haven't pissed off your postman). Or so their website syas, I've never bothered to try using it(though ahve a timing belt tensioner to mail Monday, might do that if I get it packaged in time)
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Not here they won't. We avoid the postal service like the plague. More expensive, slower and less reliable. We've come close many times to refusing to ship to PO Boxes which have the majority of the problem with lost packages. If it weren't for the troops overseas, we probably would have. No kidding.
 
I ship USPS almost excusively, no matter what it is.

UPS is a pain in the ass, unreliable, and damn slow. I can ship across the country and have my package arrive in 2 to 3 days via USPS Priority, and it takes UPS 7 to 8 days to get across the damn country.

UPS of course, is geared towards the business community, not us lowly individuals, so it is cheap and easy for business, while the average consumer takes it up the kazoo dry. Businesses get deep discounts, based on volume, and most businesses make a profit on what they charge consumers for shipping.

Also, the last order I made from a knife shop across the country from me, cost me 8 bucks, and took a week to get here. USPS would have been half the cost, and the item would have been here in half the time.

Eight bucks to ship an item that weighs less than a pound? Give me a break!
The cost of the packaging can't be all that expensive, and labor to ship should be a part of the cost of doing business, especially if you don't have a retail store. Priority mail even provides the shipping materials for free!

As a consumer, I'll always use USPS if I can. It is difficult to find a UPS outlet, and their terminal here has very limited counter hours. besides, they aren't consumer friendly at all, while they kiss businessperson ass. :barf:
 
CODE 3 said:
I ship USPS almost excusively, no matter what it is.

UPS is a pain in the ass, unreliable, and damn slow. I can ship across the country and have my package arrive in 2 to 3 days via USPS Priority, and it takes UPS 7 to 8 days to get across the damn country.

UPS of course, is geared towards the business community, not us lowly individuals, so it is cheap and easy for business, while the average consumer takes it up the kazoo dry. Businesses get deep discounts, based on volume, and most businesses make a profit on what they charge consumers for shipping.

Also, the last order I made from a knife shop across the country from me, cost me 8 bucks, and took a week to get here. USPS would have been half the cost, and the item would have been here in half the time.

Eight bucks to ship an item that weighs less than a pound? Give me a break!
The cost of the packaging can't be all that expensive, and labor to ship should be a part of the cost of doing business, especially if you don't have a retail store. Priority mail even provides the shipping materials for free!

As a consumer, I'll always use USPS if I can. It is difficult to find a UPS outlet, and their terminal here has very limited counter hours. besides, they aren't consumer friendly at all, while they kiss businessperson ass. :barf:
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All of the above has been MY experience...EXACTLY!.
 
I started with the Post Office Department in 1970, just before it became USPS. UPS was vacuuming up the parcel business, and the post office was delighted. It wasn't easy for us to handle, especially in NYC. Let someone else maintain all those trucks.

One year UPS went on strike, and we choked trying to catch up on the flood of parcels we got hit with, with no staff or truck fleet or even buildings to sort and load it.

20 years later, I would see a UPS truck park on a city street and spend hours unloading parcels onto a handtruck and delivering them up and down the one block. USPS Parcel Post drivers would deliver a few parcels, often by hand, and then move to the next block -- you can't make money with such low density of mail volume.

Without UPS, USPS wouldn't be able to handle the parcels, without changing ... into UPS. The funny thing is how many people walk into their local post offices with UPS notices, looking for their parcels. "What do you mean, it's not here? It's from the brown truck -- the one that delivers post office packages!" Riiight.

USPS' best idea in a long time was the Priority mail system. It took a few years to get going right, but it put a lot of packages in the hands of the First Class mail carrier, who goes everywhere every day anyway.

For what it's worth, where I live, and with the many, many mail order packages I get, both UPS and USPS have an excellent record, with very little delay from either. I seriously belief that a lot of places where service is worse than this, the local management should be hearing complaints, not us here.
 
The UPS driver missed my package on his truck but there is no info about it through tracking until after they close
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I used to work for a company that made equipment that was used in delivery tracking, Route Accounting is the generic term for the industry. We did not make UPS's equipment, but I do know a bit about it.

UPS's system is a "batch" system. The computer is only updated once per day. When the driver gets back to his depot, he puts his computer into a dock which eventually downloads the data and updates the central database.

FedEx, on the other hand, has a real-time system which has a radio link in the truck. With each delivery, the data are uplinked by radio. All of FedEx's trucks are tracked by GPS in real time. And the FedEx customer service center can exchange text messages with and even talk to truck drivers in the field in real time. The FedEx customer service people can literally tell you, "Your package is on shelf number 3, position number 5 on truck number 123 currently at 3rd and Lexington... no, 4th and Lexington now. I've talked to the driver. He expects to be at your address in 30 to 45 minutes." And that information is dead-on. It's beautiful. The company I worked for made some of the equipment, though I doubt any of it is still in use.

FedEx's whole system, every process and procedure, all of their equipment, the corporate culture, was designed from day-one to have real-time tracking. No wonder it works.

UPS is a very old company. Their "system" was never intended to have tracking. It's been tacked on to try and compete with FedEx. It doesn't work very well because it's not integrated into their system and, even more significantly, because it's not integrated into their corporate culture.

Take something as simple as getting a signature to confirm delivery. At FedEx, that has been part of their service, their product, since day-one. Their original terminals, the "FedEx Tracker 1," which my company designed and was the original manufacturer of, had electronic signature capture because FedEx wanted, from day-one, to have that as part of their service. UPS's culture has, for decades, stressed to drivers to get their job done quickly. Getting a signature is a slow process; it slows you down. Scanning barcodes is the same. FedEx has, from day-one, stressed the need to be able to track every package in real time. Every time the package is handled, the bar code is scanned. If you move a package from the lower shelf to the upper shelf on a truck, you scan it and you note that fact. The corporate culture is track, track, track. But, all of that tracking takes time. UPS's corporate culture is: fast, fast, fast. And you can see the conflict.

More than once, I've looked at UPS tracking to see if an expected package would be delivered today and seen that it had not been loaded onto a truck so no, it would not be delivered. And then, a few hours later, there's the package on my doorstep even though the computer says it's still at the depot. Someone tossed it onto the truck at the last minute without updating the computer. Clearly, UPS's "tracking" system gives, at best, a vague general idea of where a package is.
 
The other thing I have found about UPS is that they always have an excuse.

Several times, FedEx has missed their overnight delivery guarantee for me. And every time, without question, they have refunded the shipping cost immediately, no arguement, it's just done.

UPS has missed their delivery guarantees on me many times. Every time, I've called them and asked for a refund. I've never once received a refund. They always have an excuse. I've had UPS blow an overnight delivery. It's obvious. They blew it. The receipt shows the package was submitted at their counter well before the deadline for overnight delivery. Their tracking data shows it wasn't delivered until two days later. It should be an open-and-shut case. Instead, they will argue and argue with you for a half-hour or 45 minutes on why this case doesn't qualify for a refund. We're talking here about ten dollars and they will spend 45 minutes arguing about it. It cost them more to argue about it than it's worth! They would have been money-in-the-bank to have just instantly issued the refund. But no. UPS's culture is: never give money back. So they always have an excuse.

Recently, a package I sent to Norway via a guaranteed 3-day service took six days. Again, I had all the paperwork to proove the case. UPS first said that the three-day service (for which they charged me over a hundred dollars) was not guaranteed. When I pointed out that I had a receipt printed by a UPS computer on official UPS paper that said, "3 Day Guaranteed," their response was that that was an error on the part of their computer and that they aren't responsible for errors made by their computers. I kid you not. That is what they told me. I told them that was a bunch of crap. They looked into it and determined that the delay was caused by a subcontractor in Norway and that, according to UPS rules, they are not responsible for delays caused by subcontractors. Always an excuse... always.



True case: UPS lost a package of mine. Lost. Fortunately, it was insured. After several days waiting and several hours on the phone with them, I finally said, "Ok. It's gone. Let's start an insurance claim." I was told that you can't file an insurance claim until the package is declared lost. "Ok, let's declare it lost and get on with it."

"No. We don't declare a package lost until it's been missing for over thirty days. That's our policy."

"Fine." 31 days later, I called back.

"Sorry, claims for lost packages must be filed within thirty days of shipping. That's our policy."

You must file your claim within thirty days. But you can't file the claim until the package has been missing more than 30 days. There is NO WAY to get an insurance payment for a lost package. UPS's policies are deliberately contrived to make that systematically impossible. When I pointed this out to them, their answer was, "That's right. Thank you for using UPS. Good Bye."



I'm also reminded of a case reported here on the forum several years ago in which a knife maker bought some piece of expensive equipment to be delivered via UPS insured. When it arrived, the package was smashed and the equipment was broken. So, an insurance claim was filed. UPS denied the claim saying, "We don't have to pay because the package was improperly packed." How did they know it was improperly packed? "Well, it was damaged, wasn't it? That proves that it was improperly packed. Case closed." Again, UPS's policies are deliberately contrived to make it systematically impossible to collect on a damaged package claim either. They are not responsible for things that are improperly packed. And anything that gets damaged was obviously improperly packed; the fact that it was damaged proves that. Therefore, they don't have to pay for anything that gets damaged. Clever, eh?

That's UPS in a nutshell: Always an excuse... always.
 
Gollnick, you are correct. UPS always tries to avoid paying a claim for late shipments by blaming the weather or something else. The difference between you and me is that as a six figure per year shipper, I have more clout and get issues like that fixed in no time. Also we get two visits by the UPS truck per day and we have access to the driver's cell phone so we can discuss issues with him directly during the work day like adjusting a pick up time. UPS is really set up to be a shipper for businesses while the postal service is, for the most part, set up to handle consumers. It isn't surprising that consumers like mail and businesses like UPS. Take care.
 
I recently sold a fixed blade, German made knife to a fellow who lives near Victoria, BC Canada. It's not that far from where I live in Oregon. He requested UPS as the shipper but my better judgement told me not to leave it at the UPS depot when they presented me with several forms to sign because of the "new policy". The value of the knife was under $100 and the cost to ship it insured was about $10.

I decided to go ahead and ship it UPS, but a few days later I get an email from the buyer who says they were trying to collect almost $65 additional from him, some of which was the expected duty but most of it was a "broker fee" for getting it across the border. I told him it was understandable that he would refuse it and that I would have it shipped back to me. I told him I would refund his money or send it another way, his choice.

UPS notified me by phone message the recipient refused delivery and gave me a phone number to call back to arrange the return of the parcel. When I called they asked for my email so they could send me a form as an attachment. They said it would cost $52 to get the package returned! I told them that was ridiculous because it only cost $10 to get it there. Then they said that was a mistake, it was actually $9. The format of the form they attached would not resize to print properly and after two tries on the email and much more time on the phone, they said they would go ahead and send the package back and bill me later.

I waited almost a month and no package. The tracking number showed something about an exception resolution and an Ontario location, which is across the country from the recipeint destination. I called again and they could not locate the package. They called back and said it was still at the depot in BC where it was refused and it would be sent back in about a week. The next day it arrived at my home.

I told the clerk at UPS who had handled the shipment and they were shocked. They said there should be no charge to return the package, so once I got the bill for the return shipping I disputed it and got it dropped...not without a good scolding over the phone though. Adding insult to injury and horrible customer service.

What is really sleazy is the shakedown trying to get me to pay the contrived $52 "broker fee" or be forced to abandon the valuable knife. How many people in similar situations just say "OK" and get hosed? They say they have "no control" over the broker fee. Once again, the second party scapegoat that has been referred to elsewhere in this thread.

Several times I gave the buyer the choice to have a refund, but he really wanted the knife. I sent the knife USPS Global Express, once it was returned, and he got it in a couple of days. No hassle at all. Needless to say, I will never use UPS for delivery to Canada or possibly anywhere outside the US if they also have a broker fee. I use UPS for auto knives (US only) since they can't go by mail.

Priority Mail is good, but always insure the package. With more than $50 insured value, there is a signature required on the other end. I took it for granted a shipper would insure a package worth $175, but the cheapskate didn't and, when the post office apparently lost the pacakge or misdelivered it, I lost out entirely. When you use the online USPS system to print the shipping label (prepaid or not), delivery confirmation is free but you still need to go to the counter to get insurance.
 
Same subject, different place.
If shipping or receiving overseas, leastways SE Asia, Ups is not good for all of the reasons listed above and more.
USPS is best. USPS magically turns into EMS service when is leaves/enters the states. You loose tracking ability, but is as fast, cheaper, and after 150 or so shipments, havent lost one. Not so with UPS, TNT etc.
2 cents worth.
Rad
 
Gollnick, you are correct. UPS always tries to avoid paying a claim for late shipments by blaming the weather or something else.

The difference between you and me is that as a six figure per year shipper, I have more clout and get issues like that fixed in no time. Also we get two visits by the UPS truck per day and we have access to the driver's cell phone so we can discuss issues with him directly during the work day like adjusting a pick up time.
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FedEx does all of that for me, a two- to three-figure a year sometimes shipper. With FedEx, just being a customer gives you all that "clout." FedEx values all of their custoemrs.
 
Don't even get me started. I tried to do business with Fedex for 7 years. I never could get it done. My small time six figure business account apparently wasn't worth the time of day to them. I'd take the postal service before Fedex. Arrrrrrrgh!
 
I wonder how much of our very different experiences with UPS, USPS, FedEX etc.. depend actually of the local agencies.
Our local UPS agency is a mess. USPS Global Priority packages get here by the local postal services - which happen to be quite good. USPS Global Express gets here via another company (maybe EMS), who happens to be more user friendly that the local UPS.
 
Flava, there do seem to be some definite corporate issues involved, but you're right about local outlets having a lot to do with the actual delivery. We have good guys working here -- UPS and USPS, for example, have had the same drivers for a long time on these routes, and they are all cheerful and industrious. You can see it every day. They don't make lazy mistakes and they don't make dumb mistakes.

I also know from working for USPS that my office might have one attitude towards national policy, but other parts of the country couldn't be bothered. This lack of quality control over management is disastrous and indefensible, and only encourages lower-echelon people to ignore their customers' needs.
 
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