Urban Survival Scenario 2 (Son of Coldwoods thread)

Coldwood thinks like me. Watch out for those idiots with plans!
This is a middle class neighborhood, not real old not real new, as average as you think of. Just having "flush" water is a wonderful thing.
the 'cat hole" dug in the yard isn't a half bad idea either, it's cool outside so the stinkin isn't near as bad as it would be in July.

Let's say the neighborhood is 20 years old, so there are fairly mature trees and such. There are some squirrels. there is an elementary school nearby and a wooded area next it, maybe 5 acres of woods, the neighborhood kids play there.

The city has a river running through it, there is light industry along the river, and a sewage treatment plant, also roadways near it, so bad stuff does get into the river. There are reports that people are dumping buckets, barrels and portajohns in the river for sanitation purposes.

Spyders pond is fine, it exists, so its allowable, but, Spyder has his neighbors and interlopers to contend with. People have already peed and defacated in the pond before being reprimanded. You know, some people are dumb and every puddle of water is their own private latrine.

All power is out, there is no internet, the ISPs hubs are now out of juice.
All natural gas lines have been shut off days prior. Most of the homes are heated with natural gas. The next neighborhood over is older, those homes are heated with fuel oil.

As the weekend comes to a close, people are mroe defensive, more worried, and the gunshots heard in the distance are more numerous.
As Coldwood said, there are groups of people starting to meet, talking about pretecting their homes and neighborhoods. One of them has almost convinced everyone that all food and water should be pooled, and managed, in order to care of everyone.
Several neighbors have gotten cold enough at night that they've slept in their cars, had them running for heat, and now are out of gasoline. That is another items being discussed, pooling gasline in case it's needed to evacuate everyone safely form the community.

No one inteds to go to work, they don't even think the roads are passable at this point. No one has heard anything about the Interstate lately.
There are still one or two radio stations operating, however, they do not transmit all day , they are down to 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening. They have stated they are not sure how much longer they will be operational. Cell towers had been runnign on their generators, but they are dropping like flies, cell phone service ceased to function in your area mid-day Sunday.

Someone down the street has health issues and relies on meds, which have run out, it's not looking pretty at that household. They want to journey out to check for pharmacies on monday morning.

It's Sunday night now, nightfall, Monday will be day 6 of the event, still no further word on the situation, overall. By the way, Clouds moved in Sunday late day, looks like a good possibility of rain.

-How are you staying warm?
-Feeding your family?
-handling sanitation?
-protecting your property?
-obtaining water and your plan for water for the next several days?
-Are you talkig to neighbors, working with them, or staying more to yourself?
 
Based on longbow's post, I'm certain some of these things he was doing on day 2 or so of the event. Like wrapping his freezer. Good thought!

Since this is for learning and sharing ideas, anyone can feel free to now step back a day or two in the event and add or change, a they see fit. This serves to help everyone , so we don't forget it, should we ever be faced with a long term outage.

So, please indicate what timeframe you are talking about. Power went out on Tuesday eve. It's now Sunday night and it's raining.
 
What about the use of short-range walkie-talkies? Some of those now claim to have a range of up to 18 miles. I see those as much more useful than CB or shortwave. Of course we still want AM radio to monitor the local situation.
 
-How are you staying warm?
The basement has been set up as the primary living quarters. Sectioned off to conserve heat. The small wood burning stove is more than enough to heat the area. Wood comes from several locations. Mostly pallets from behind the industrial business allong the river. They take little effort to break down and they are a dry hardwood that is not pressure treated.

-Feeding your family?
We shop after pay-day for two weeks. Since this happened a week into it, we have a weeks worth left plus the dry gods and stuff the kids wouldn't eat when they had a choice. Good supply of rice and pasta, Dry cereal, etc.
Along the river there is a fair amount of wildlife. Since the river was once a shipping route for the business along it, there has been recommendations that one does not eat the fish. Luckily I have a small aluminum boat that can be transported on the roof of the van. Load up the boat and head down stream to the cleaner water for a some fishing since I don't have to work. Ducks and geese are fair game. Unfortunately its november. Not many to be found on the water. The 870 goes along for the ride anyway.

There is aboout 2 pounds of grass seed in the garage so it goes out on the lawn to attract the local birds. Dove are plentiful so it looks like we're having dove stir fry with rice. ;)

-handling sanitation?
Sanitation is handled as normal. the toilet is flushed with pool water. No pool here but my sister has one and is only four blocks away. A couple 5gallon buckets should do.

-protecting your property?
Doors and windows stay locked. Both cars are in the yard with the fence closed. That is, of course, if I didn't have to leave one the shoulder of the road last Tuesday.
My wife keeps a .45 on her at all times. I carry the 870 with a full mag and a 18" bbl. My 17 year old son gets his 870 20ga stoked with slugs. Other firearms are placed strategically around the house for moments when one might let their guard down. A .22 pistol in the bathroom, a .30-30 near the front door.

Since my next-door neighbor is a police officer and friend of mine, he has been working long hours to keep the peace. His wife and two-year old son have come to stay with us while he is working. They brought Jameson with 'em. Jameson is a 110 pound rotweiller that is best described as a bull in a china shop. He thinks he's a lap dog. What he lacks in grace he more than makes up for in allerting us of possible intruders. He doesn't need to stop 'em, juust let us know that they're there.

Hows that so far?

cs
 
Rupestris, let me poke some holes in your plan, no offense intended.


Scrap wood and pallets will be used by everybody; you'll need your 870 to collect them.
Food? You'll need a month's supply.
Water? Five gallons is good for one flush. Four blocks is a long way to haul water by yourself.
As the man said, "If it's yellow, let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down."
Be prepared for the stink.

Grass seed? I'd think about grinding it up into flour, unless it's chemically treated. Forget about eating tweetie birds and doves, everybody else will be thinking the same thing, and they will get scarce.
Harvesting wild game will not be a walk in the park.

You're well armed, that's good, but think now about stocking up on food and water.
 
okay okay I sneak over to dunkun donuts and get all uncooked donut batter and cold coffee I can hightail it back to my basement where I have a years supply of food and 2 month supply of water. And I have a bunch of other stuff already named above to keep myself safe and fairly comfortable. And I have read this thread for advise.
 
And Codger you better start digging underneath your house and make a basement. I know you can you have the know how. So hup two.
 
Scrap wood and pallets will be used by everybody; you'll need your 870 to collect them.
Food? You'll need a month's supply.
Water? Five gallons is good for one flush. Four blocks is a long way to haul water by yourself.
As the man said, "If it's yellow, let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down."
Be prepared for the stink.
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Coldwood,

No offence taken. I appreciate the critique.

Thanks for the tips. I'm trying to throw a mix of reality and fiction together for effect. To be honest, there is a pallet company about a mile from me. They have a roll-off full of scrap wood free for the taking on any given day. While most would think of chopping down their neighbors tree for a fire, I'm trying to think simple. The less energy I burn, the better off I'll be.

As for a months supply of food, My sister, her husband and son do live four blocks from me. My mother lives six blocks away. between the three hoseholds we could probably come up with a few weeks of food for the eight of us.

2.5 gallons should be enough to flush. Because my sister is only four blocks (side streets) away I should be able to get the van to her house and back with three 5 gallon buckets without a problem.

Thanks for the props on being armed well enough.

I've put some thought into gathering water but food is definately harder to come by in the suburbs in the middle of November.

A lesson learned from Katrina is that Busnesses will bow to the public durring times of woe. Walmart was faced with an insurance claim (because of the power loss and perrishables going bad) durring Katrina so instead of letting looters break down the doors, they opened up for the taking. The local businesses would probably do the same in the event of a long term black-out. If I were lucky I'd be able to get in on the free for all.

If not, then it might come down to using the 870 to acquire some grub ;) . (Lets hope it never comes to that)

When emergencies arrise, I try to think along the lines that most wouldn't think of. Some might think looting is their best bet. I try to avoid the mob and move to plan B right off the bat. While the masses are stealing twinkies from the quicky mart, I'd be taking squirrels and rabbits and storing them in a cooler in my sisters pool (water temp should be cold enough and stable throughout the day).

If you see any more holes in my plan, please point 'em out to me. I could use the info.

Chris
 
longbow50 said:
Sorry, had to leave the thread.
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Longbow, sorry, hope it wasn't something I said? No offense meant.
I liked the "wrap the freezer idea" I had never thought of that.

OK, it's played out long enough, one solid week, and I think everyone got thinking about what is important and, the big thing in my mind, is that no one actually BUGGED OUT. Okay, it's not fair unless i tell you things i might do ,also.

In a scenario like this, nobody is going to start wrecking their house, but, if you knew in advance, that it would be weeks or a months, any house heated by natural gas would have a flue, and thus, could be tapped for a small makeshift fireplace.
Scavenge some ductwork from inside your house, fashion a duct-work burn-box hooked to the flue. You could have raging hot fires, but, it would be enough to take the chill off. You could take your washing machine or dryer and make somewhat of a wood stove out of it, also. You could even vent smoke out a window, using ductwork or flue liner from gas appliances.

Coldwood's pallet burning is great use of local supplies, and they probably wouldn't be contested near as much as a water supply. If you had a way to chop them up, you could barter out firewood. Even a mile away, chances are you can drive there, and chance are good you are not blocked.
This might be a good time to get a trusted friend or neighbor to ride shotgun, literally.

Flushing: We have those new fangled 1.2 gallon flushers.
If you pour a bucket directly into the toilet, it does take a lot of water per flush, but if you open the back of the tank, fill that, then you can get flushes for 1 gallon or so. Let's say 3 flushes per 5 gallons. do-able if you are finding the water. All unused water from bathing and cleaning gets recycled to flush water.
It uses the hydraulic engineering of the commode for a more efficient flush.
Bathroom window would probably stay open for ventilation.
Also may depend on whether you are on city sewage system or septic.
In a city, the sewage system may use a "pumper" at some point, which would also need power. OH man, the sewage system backing up into neighborhoods would be dreadful!

The neighbor thing is interesting, I am not sure how you would deal with them, I'm still thinking that one over. My neighbors are armed and pretty good people, so I think I'd be better forming up with them closely. We live on a dead end street so could deal with interlopers a bit better.

We may have to deal with our neighbors, no two ways about it, and it would be important to know what was on their mind, but, people will tend to form groups, an those groups will tend to come with some ideas, both good and bad. SOme people tend to start thinking like communists, with the whole "sharing" idea. It's a noble thought, but, of course those who haven't preapred will support taking your stash.

I got some great ideas from folks, thanks for all the advice.

Maybe next time we run one out for month, start at this point, and then keep it running. Depending on region, water may be scarce, or plentiful.
Here in the east we seem to have more than our fair share of rivers, streams, and rainfall. I know that other places with the heat and dryness it would make water much more of an issue.

Lastly, I noticed the food issue beginning. Again, for a week there is enough around, if you do the smart things, like wrap your freezer to extend the food from spoiling, use coolers, and grill-up things that are thawing.
I personally would fire up the smoker and smoke all the meat I could, rather than watch it go bad.

I think hunting small critters like squirrels would be an option, but, there wouldn't be enough to subsist on entirely. I gave that 5 acre patch of woods near the school , thinking there may be several days of bagging birds and squirrels in there? Setting up some snares?

Finding Barrels for rainwater storage would be a HUGE plus.
I am lucky enough to have a couple, they made need cleaning, but could rig one or two up to gutters on the house. A good rain fall would yield 100 gallons. A friend of mine locally said, find 3 or 4 trees to tie your tarp to for catching rain, in the middle poke a hole. Underneath dig a 3 foot deep hole, 2 or 3 feet across, and line it with 4 mil plastic. Also you could run some of the black flexi-drain pipe to the hole from your gutter. You would have a make shift cistern.

Keep posting ideas and thoughts here, I learn something new everyday.

thanks everyone.
 
if i saw this ealier i would of put in that ALL major shopping centers have about 20000L of water + in reserve at all times for the fire system this water is feed from the scheme suply. has any one thourght of using this as an water source for an emergany or this this water unsutible ??

cheers in advance forrie
 
Well we're getting down to the real nitty gritty. This is a great thread, lots of good ideas.

Besides food and water, I would watch the behavior of people around me. My friends could become a real pain in the ass, wanting me to make compromises for their benefit. Maybe I should get better friends :D

Consider the TV series "Survivor". What always happens? The weak vote off the strong. It's politics. Government as usual, and it will come up in a survival situation.
 
Forrie, I think almost any water would be worth considering.
It can be filtered, boiled and chlorine treated.
Chlorine should be plentiful, check the laundry rooms of many houses.

Coldwood, I hear you, people's behavior would be something to be on gaurd for. I think most of us would lend support or help, say for an elderly or sick person, it's only natural. I would probably be wise to be cool and clam about what suppleis you have, even to the point where you store them as discreetly as possible, even hiding them in your own home, just in case.
 
Thanks for the thread Skunk.

I think everyone got thinking about what is important
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I sure did. Too often people post about bugging out or taking to the woods for survival. The majority of us live in areas where buggin' out is next to impossible. We are then forced to stay put and make the best of a bad situation.
 
Vehicle movement. We all probably plan to keep our tanks topped off...unless we're splitting hell bent, do we want to risk putting our cars on the road? Do we want to pretend it's dead? Do we want to risk a carjacking? If they know the car is mobile, will others want to use it, with or without our permission?
 
Here's another thing we haven't discussed: Cash. How much do we want and in what denominations? If the SHTF I would want all my money out of the bank, if possible. Also in fives or singles, and that would be a very difficult thing to arrange.

We're going to be dealing with the 7-11, the guy there ain't going to give fair change for Krugerrands. I don't think he'll be giving a fair trade for anything, so small denominations would be a good bet to deal with.
 
Coldwood said:
...Besides food and water, I would watch the behavior of people around me. My friends could become a real pain in the ass, wanting me to make compromises for their benefit. Maybe I should get better friends :D...
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Friends: The other white meat! :D

Codger
 
LOL, Codger :D Yeah, I think that people could be a real problem. Who knows who's going to show up at your door or what they're going to expect? Those who "serve and protect" are going to have breakdowns, they will probably be overwhelmed. My friends and I are going to have serious discussions about our relationships and what's expected ;)
 
I'll bet "the ATF" comes in handy, and I don't mean the bureau either.
I'm refering to alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Some folks will pay cash for 'em when they don't have it and realize that they need it. Yes, some will "need" smokes and/or a bottle as they have a dependency on them. It can be beat but some would rather spend their last dime on a bottle than go without.

You can barter or sell whats behind the basement bar or in the safe.

Is it preying on the alcoholic? maybe, but if both parties get what they feel they need its fine with me.
 
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