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- Jan 5, 2007
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The Results are in for the: USA Stainless steel 70T Old Timer verses the China Stainless 70T Old Timer
At first I had trouble but getting either one blunt but as expected evetually the China Schrade was shown to be an inferior product.
The real difference came when I used the hemp rope (although it was really hurting my arm before hurting the knives). After I had made 89 cuts of the hemp rope on each knife (178 total) both knives were still cutting but it was taking 80 strokes of the China 70t to cut through the rope and 50 strokes for the USA 70t
Although I was very satisfied that the USA blade was much superior I still wanted a more conclusive result (I wanted one to stop cutting)
To speed things up I used a peice of pine wood and made 60 slices of the pine wood using the same technique on each knife. (it must be noted that the USA Schrade easily removed more than twice the amount of timber while doing this)
This had the desired effect after this the China Schrade was then only able to make a few more cuts of hemp rope before it would not cut it without extreme force. The USA Schrade was able to continue cutting and I was able to make another 62 cuts of the hemp until it was just as difficult as the China Schrade to use. I swapped back and forth between the knives a few times with the final cuts to make sure the comparison was valid.
Prior to using the Hemp rope I also tried red Nylon rope, cardboard and Bailing twine but both knives continued to cut quite well. It was not until I used the Hemp rope that a real difference became evident. (thanks Michael)
In summary: The hemp cutting test showed the USA Schrade to be approximatley 50 to 60% percent superior in edge cutting retention and durability over the China model.
Up until point of the China 70t becoming unusable I had to do a up to 50 percent more work with it (80 strokes to Schrades 50) to make it cut. This must also be factored into the the final result.
Conclusion, re: cutting test.
My results are approximates based on the best info I was able to gather from test. I cannot factor in all the variables to give a more precise result but this is in part made unessesary because for me the test showed that the USA Schrade led by a considerable margin and was vastly superior in cutting performance. Any slight variable in the results would not swing the result in favour of the China Schrade.
Some extra Important notes re: cutting. The USA was in new but battered condition with a chipped point which accounts for 4% percent less cutting surface and although both blades were very sharp the USA Schrade was slightly less sharp than the China Schrade at the commencement of the test. Schrade USA uses 400+ HC steel which also includes the use of 420 C steel. The China Schrade uses 440 stainless normally considered superior to the other types mentioned. Superior manufacturing technique and critical final heat treatment of the steel may account for the difference in the findings here.
Blade Side Break test.
Both were loaded up with weights supported off handles until the blades broke. The China Schrade suffered worse for this and lost its centre brass sheild. The Photos show the delrin forward part of the hande seperating on the China knife and also the brass moving away from supporting the blade. This occured while under strain just prior to shearing the blade from its housing. On examination (as in photo) the sheared part of the blade shows that the USA knife is wider in this critical area.
Lockback Failure Break test
Michael Ive taken the challenge and done another additional test re: your email:
OK the second last photo added below shows the Lockback break failure test. Again the USA Schrade 70T showed itself to be superior with a 10 percent lead in strength over the China model. The weights were added gradually at small increments over the test. More significantly the way the two knives failed was impressive the USA Schrade broke progressively almost lowering the weight to the ground so that most of the weights were still sitting in a stack when they reached the ground. The China Schrade when subjected to the same test suffered catastrophic failure before reaching the target weight and the backing peice broke away and flung upward as the weights fell.
In summary.
They were both badly damaged but the way in which the China Schrade broke meant that is was unusable. The USA Schrade on the other hand amazed me by still being able to perform a wood cutting function even after subjecting it to this severe the test to failure. An outstanding example of quality and build. It was my intention to destroy all four knives during the test, one of the 4 survived.
SHEARED OFF AREAS MARKED IN BETWEEN RED ARROWS
LOCKBACK FAILURE BREAK TEST
THE WINNER
At first I had trouble but getting either one blunt but as expected evetually the China Schrade was shown to be an inferior product.
The real difference came when I used the hemp rope (although it was really hurting my arm before hurting the knives). After I had made 89 cuts of the hemp rope on each knife (178 total) both knives were still cutting but it was taking 80 strokes of the China 70t to cut through the rope and 50 strokes for the USA 70t
Although I was very satisfied that the USA blade was much superior I still wanted a more conclusive result (I wanted one to stop cutting)
To speed things up I used a peice of pine wood and made 60 slices of the pine wood using the same technique on each knife. (it must be noted that the USA Schrade easily removed more than twice the amount of timber while doing this)
This had the desired effect after this the China Schrade was then only able to make a few more cuts of hemp rope before it would not cut it without extreme force. The USA Schrade was able to continue cutting and I was able to make another 62 cuts of the hemp until it was just as difficult as the China Schrade to use. I swapped back and forth between the knives a few times with the final cuts to make sure the comparison was valid.
Prior to using the Hemp rope I also tried red Nylon rope, cardboard and Bailing twine but both knives continued to cut quite well. It was not until I used the Hemp rope that a real difference became evident. (thanks Michael)
In summary: The hemp cutting test showed the USA Schrade to be approximatley 50 to 60% percent superior in edge cutting retention and durability over the China model.
Up until point of the China 70t becoming unusable I had to do a up to 50 percent more work with it (80 strokes to Schrades 50) to make it cut. This must also be factored into the the final result.
Conclusion, re: cutting test.
My results are approximates based on the best info I was able to gather from test. I cannot factor in all the variables to give a more precise result but this is in part made unessesary because for me the test showed that the USA Schrade led by a considerable margin and was vastly superior in cutting performance. Any slight variable in the results would not swing the result in favour of the China Schrade.
Some extra Important notes re: cutting. The USA was in new but battered condition with a chipped point which accounts for 4% percent less cutting surface and although both blades were very sharp the USA Schrade was slightly less sharp than the China Schrade at the commencement of the test. Schrade USA uses 400+ HC steel which also includes the use of 420 C steel. The China Schrade uses 440 stainless normally considered superior to the other types mentioned. Superior manufacturing technique and critical final heat treatment of the steel may account for the difference in the findings here.
Blade Side Break test.
Both were loaded up with weights supported off handles until the blades broke. The China Schrade suffered worse for this and lost its centre brass sheild. The Photos show the delrin forward part of the hande seperating on the China knife and also the brass moving away from supporting the blade. This occured while under strain just prior to shearing the blade from its housing. On examination (as in photo) the sheared part of the blade shows that the USA knife is wider in this critical area.
Lockback Failure Break test
Michael Ive taken the challenge and done another additional test re: your email:
OK the second last photo added below shows the Lockback break failure test. Again the USA Schrade 70T showed itself to be superior with a 10 percent lead in strength over the China model. The weights were added gradually at small increments over the test. More significantly the way the two knives failed was impressive the USA Schrade broke progressively almost lowering the weight to the ground so that most of the weights were still sitting in a stack when they reached the ground. The China Schrade when subjected to the same test suffered catastrophic failure before reaching the target weight and the backing peice broke away and flung upward as the weights fell.
In summary.
They were both badly damaged but the way in which the China Schrade broke meant that is was unusable. The USA Schrade on the other hand amazed me by still being able to perform a wood cutting function even after subjecting it to this severe the test to failure. An outstanding example of quality and build. It was my intention to destroy all four knives during the test, one of the 4 survived.
SHEARED OFF AREAS MARKED IN BETWEEN RED ARROWS
LOCKBACK FAILURE BREAK TEST
THE WINNER
I hate to think of the parts that might have been flying!
