Using a Jig for Bench Stones

[me2]

I have used a wooden jig for sharpening for years now. My initial jig held the stone vertically in the same fashion as crock sticks and the Sharpmaker. This works well with stones that done use liquid like oil or water. When I switched to a water stone, it would only stay wet for about 20 strokes or so, and I was also having to reverse the holder to get the other side of the edge. I recently tried the same jig, place horzontally. I'm still testing it, but this seems to work really well. I hold the blade horizontal now instead of vertical, and the jig holds the stone at the desired angle. It worked great on my Benchmade TSEK, which has been my sharpening nemesis for a while now. The waterstone also seems to cut faster, and I dont have to wet it as often. To do different sides, I just switch hands, instead of moving the jig and switching hands. Does anyone else sharpen using jigs in either of these ways?

 

[Dog of War]

 

[Rob Babcock]

I've been talking with my dad about an adjustable jig that will hold stones vertically, with a built in protractor to set the angle. He has a friend that's a very talented machinist; I created a drawing of a concept and he's been working on building it. I think the first mock-up/prototype is about done. I'm anxious to see if it works and how well.

 

[db]

A guy on another forum uses a Panavise to do just this. You can angle the stone at any angle you want.

 

[udtjim]

A rough pro-type. Don't laugh, it works. Still have to get or fashion the stone holders and then go to Aluminum. You could use any stone on earth with this. I have the protractor gauge figured out as well. I set the one side at a steeper angle to show the stone.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Instead of making up all sorts of jigs, maybe it would be easier to just learn to sharpen freehand. It's really not that hard.
Bill

 

[udtjim]

Some people have the knack to free hand but building a better mouse trap is what got us out of the stone age. But Hey if you can do it, good for you. For me its easier to hold the knife straight up and down and tilt the stone.

 

[Dog of War]

Instead of making up all sorts of jigs, maybe it would be easier to just learn to sharpen freehand. It's really not that hard.
Bill

I freehand, but built the jig when I decided to do some quantified testing and needed control over edge angles. It's actually useful for other things, like making sure the edge bevel is pretty when you sharpen someone else's knife, but I agree that freehand is a much more valuable skill. Carrying the bench, vise and jig into the field is sort of awkward.

 

[me2]

Instead of making up all sorts of jigs, maybe it would be easier to just learn to sharpen freehand. It's really not that hard.
Bill

What makes you think using a jig means one cant sharpen free hand?

Nope, I've been practicing sharpening free hand for years. It only took about 5 minutes to make my angled stone holders.

I must admit that I've been influenced by reading Leonard Lee's book on sharpening. He uses home made jigs for saws, knives and many of the miscellaneous items. Nothing wrong with jigs if accuracy and repeatability are the goal.

 

[udtjim]

Amen to that. To each his own. I can sharpen a knife free hand but its easier with a jig.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I freehand, but built the jig when I decided to do some quantified testing and needed control over edge angles. It's actually useful for other things, like making sure the edge bevel is pretty when you sharpen someone else's knife, but I agree that freehand is a much more valuable skill. Carrying the bench, vise and jig into the field is sort of awkward.

How long do you spend "in the field" at a time? I could see if you were going on an expedition for 3 months and for whatever reason could only take one or two knives. But honestly- if you're going deer hunting for a few days and are at most gonna clean one deer, if you have to sharpen in the field you've probably a) done a crappy job sharpening it to begin with or b) aren't using a very good knife. I guess it could be c) you're abusing the blade badly. I mean no offense, but what kind of knife can't survive a couple days use without resharpening? And how good a job are you going to do with Arkansas or waterstones out in the woods, with no table and no oil or water save what you carry with you? Somehow taking 4 or 5 large King waterstones out on a day trip doesn't seem all that practical to me, but YYMV.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Instead of making up all sorts of jigs, maybe it would be easier to just learn to sharpen freehand. It's really not that hard.
Bill

Not everyone who makes or uses jigs "needs to learn to sharpen freehand." :jerkit: I suspect Sal Glasser and Ben Dale have forgotten more about sharpening than most of us will ever know. They invented very innovative and effective sharpeners not out of ignorance of "how to do it right," but from a desire to create a very fast and repeatable system. So far I've never run into a single professional sharpener that does all his sharpening freehand on stones. Do you know any? Maybe a low volume boutique guy might sharpen $1,000 "knife roll queens" for wealthy duffers, but I can't imagine many pro's relying on freehanding to make a living. Mr. Dale created the Edge Pro precisely because that approach didn't allow him to sharpen fast enough to make a living.

Instead of keeping a tightly closed mind concerning other techniques, one may find it more useful to read up and learn something.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Pros use mechanical methods-wheels and belt sanders, and they do it freehand.
Most of the jig sharpeners were developed to sell jig sharpeners. Sal Glesser is a hell of a guy. He is in the knife business to make money. I don't know Mr. Dale. I doubt either of them have forgotten more about sharpening than I will ever know.
My mind is not closed to other techniques. I would venture to say that I explore more about cutlery than most people. Freehand sharpening is not hard, nor is it imprecise. I learn something every day, Mr. Babcock. A long time ago I learned how to sharpen a knife. Today I learned that there are some people who simply have their minds made up, and won't be confused by facts.
Jigs are not useless, but they aren't absolutely necessary.
A simple India stone of about 3 inches is all that is needed for field use. Oils and waterstones and tables are not necessary for sharpening, either.
Bill

 

[Rob Babcock]

Today I learned that there are some people who simply have their minds made up, and won't be confused by facts.
Bill

Not only did you learn it, you seem to personify it. There is more on heaven and Earth... Your critical reading/thinking skills need some work, not just based on your obvious misunderstanding of the role of jigs. Many of us who tinker with or use jigs also do a lot of freehanding. I guess you either missed that part or it doesn't fit your worldview.

Okay, for the cheap seats- if jigs are made to sell jigs (if they're for sale, the ones mentioned here are not), then you'd also have to concede that waterstones are made to sell waterstones, belt grinders are made to sell belt grinders, etc. It's called capitalism. Where I take issue with you is where you make the smug insinuation that jibs are "from hunger" and that those who use them need to learn more. I have no idea whether you're competant or a wet-behind-the-ears whelp, so I'll refrain from judgement (except to voice my amazement of your ignorance of Mr. Dale- that truly shocks me, assuming this ain't your first rodeo; And if you don't know who he is, you also won't comprehend my statements about the origins of one of the finest guided systems ever created nor grasp the paragraph where I explained the reason for it). Again, I dunno how old you are, but FYI Udtjim has probably been hand sharpening since before you were an itch your daddy's pants. He has some disabilities now that make freehanding difficult for him; he can elaborate if he choses, or not.

Again, if you don't understand after rereading, I know of no pro who only sharpens freehand. Do you?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Mr. Babcock
Your condescending remarks are not appreciated. I can assure you that I read more about cutlery than most, that my comprehension level is far above normal, and that I DO more with cutlery than most.
Sharpening jigs are not necessary if you learn to properly sharpen. Angle consistency and repeatability are not difficult to accomplish. Jigs are a crutch for most of the people who swear by them. My contention is that they simply won't take the time to learn to freehand sharpen. Theoretically, a jig could produce a sharper edge-but in reality one would not be able to tell the difference.
If people can extoll the virtues of jigs, what is wrong with me extolling the virtues of manual sharpening?
Bill
www.billdeshivs.com

 

[Rob Babcock]

You can't seriously expect your condescension to be met with respect, can you? If I've offended your sensibilities I sincerly apologize. But if you have disdain for jigs and are just here to threadcrap, your absence would be sincerly appreciated. You obviously seek an arguement and don't care to read what's written, as anyone endowed with the ability to read would understand that I never said jigs are the only way. But if you are only going to argue with what you wish I'd said instead of what I actually said, this will go nowhere.

As for a "crutch," you may notice the disabled tend to use them. If you don't like that, it reflects more on you than it does on the disabled.

Have a good day, Mr. DeShivs.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Rob
My remarks are not condescending-they are made to make people THINK.
I said MOST people use jigs as a crutch. I have no problem with anyone using jigs who CAN'T hold consistent angles. That was a pretty cheap shot. MOST people have the ability to not need jigs.
I seek no arguments. You guys scare the crap out of newbies that read here. They think they need all kind of sharpening fixtures, $100 waterstones, diamond stones, chromium oxide, sub micron diamond pastes, etc.-when all they need is the proper $20 stone and some practice. There is no voice of reason here about sharpening!
As far as you "inviting" me out of this thread, I have no idea why you think you have that right. I can promise you that I'm not "wet behind the ears" and that I'm more than a little competent. I think I have made a few marks in the cutlery industry. Perhaps it is you that needs to do a little research.
I know of no professional sharpeners who use jigs. As I said, most freehand on power equipment. As a matter of fact, I know very few professional sharpeners, as I don't need to. I do my own sharpening, and a little bit for others. I don't use jigs, either-because I don't need to.
I understand the gadgetry factor, and realize my position on jigs is not fun for you.
I have spent a great deal of time and effort educating people about cutlery, but you sharpening guys are a hard sell. If you could adequately sharpen a knife by hand, my bet is that you would be here talking about THAT instead of jigs. I will agree that there are some people who, for one reason or another, simply can not sharpen a knife by hand. I just want people to know it is not difficult for the greater majority of knife users
to learn how.
Bill
www.billdeshivs.com

 

[wvstockman]

And how good a job are you going to do with Arkansas or waterstones out in the woods, with no table and no oil or water save what you carry with you? Somehow taking 4 or 5 large King waterstones out on a day trip doesn't seem all that practical to me, but YYMV.

Forgive me for butting in but I don't understand this. Why do you need a table, oil, and 4 or 5 stones to sharpen a knife??????

I sharpen knive at work for a bunch of the guys and all I ever use is a little 2 grit (one side coase, one fine) arkansas pocket stone and a smith 2 sided diamond sharpener. I usually keep these in the truck so if one of them needed a knife sharpened (and we get a break) I get the stones and get to work. I'll either use the stones dry (rare) or get some water (someone usually has a bottle handy). And I don't have a table. I'm holding the stones in my hand while standing or sitting somewere.

If the knife is real bad I'll start with the diamond stone but usually the arkansas stone is good enough. Depending on how bad the knife is, or how many times the boss interupts us with work, (doesn't he know how important a sharp knife is:jerkit I'll have them a shaveing sharp knife in between 5 and 15 minutes. Unless it's the one guy who buys really really cheap knives that don't sharpen well. When done I stick the stones in my jacket pockets.

Also, around here in the first week of deer season I've cleaned 6 dear on the opening day! All with one buck 110 (or 119, can't remember) and a small saw. Between mine, my dad's., my cousin's, friends, etc. It's not rare for me to dress out 10+ deer in 3 or 4 days.

If it's my own knife and don't have quick access to water, I'll spit on the stone. AND if your out in the woods for a couple days without ANY access to water? I'd say sharpening your knife is the least or your worries!

Sam

 

[me2]

Well, I'll again state the unpopular opinion that jigs like the ones posted by udtjim and DOW are free hand sharpening. Using a jig to hold the stone at a specific angle and holding the knife vertical or horizontal is still dependent on the persons ability to hold the knife at the same angle. Its just an angle that is a lot easier to hold for most people than the infinite variation between horizontal (0 degrees) and vertical (90 degrees).

For the record, I feel a $20 Norton coarse/fine stone is adequate for all my knife sharpening needs. However, if I was satified with adequate, I wouldnt be reading the sharpening subforum of BF.

You dont need a table, oil, 5 stones or any of the other stuff mentioned. I sharpened free hand sitting in the floor for many years using a soft and hard Arkansas stone and a ceramic rod. Sharpened everything from pocket knives to swords that way. When an edge was too beat up for that, I went to a file or my grandfathers water cooled wheel turning about 100 rpm. Now I free hand on a belt sander, and am beginning to prefer sharpening against the platen, which I believe I first heard of from Mr. DeShivs. I sharpen using a stone holder because I feel it saves me time from one to the next, and to get specific angles. After setting the angle, I can match it free hand, but since the stones basically sit on the jig in the shop, I dont feel the need to undo what is there, just to say I do it free hand every time.

"Its really not that hard"
I remember hearing that the first time the guy who'd welded nuclear pipe and boilers for 30 years tried to teach me.

 

[udtjim]

Most folks who use knives everyday can free hand them when need be. The thing about a jig is a more precise and repeatable sharpening job which in my mind saves more steel and gives a longer life to the edge. The less you have to guess at the angle, the less you have to work the steel. I have only one eye which means I have NO depth perception. However its easy for me to hold a blade straight up and down. If one has no need for mechanical help thats fine but if you can do a better job with a jig then why the hell not use it? After all a good sharp knife is the goal and there are many ways to achieve this. Besides, its fun to create things.