Using the knife pommel as a hammer

Using the spine, flat, or a rock all have problems, either due to grip issues, or lack of impact precision.
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Cliff,

Can you illustrate that for me? Usually knives are designed to be most precise when using the blade.

n2s
 
Working with a garden take, tines fall out, use a knife to pry open the head, push the tines in and hammer the head tight. You need a fairly focused impact right on top of the tines. The blade flat would be useless, too much surface area, and the spine would be far more awkward than a nice hammer pommel. For some work though the spine and flats are nice, the flats crush nuts well for example, and the spine breaks bones readily.

-Cliff
 
having a knife with a butt end that can be hammered can be an advantage, not so much if you are hammering with the knife, but if you are actually hammering the knife - like a chisel.
yes, there are tools specifically for this purpose and one can argue that knives are not meant to be used in this fashion. however, the same can be said about screwdrivers - yet all of my current screwdrivers have steel butt caps that can be hammered - with a solid bar through the handle - and every now and then i do use them for this purpose. sometimes you either dont have the right tool on hand, or you dont have the time to go and get the right tool - so you use what you have.

i wouldnt buy a knife specifically for this purpose, however if the knife has this feature it would just add to its versatility. something like the becker line comes to mind - if i ever had the hammer a becker knife into something it wouldnt be much of an issue... however with a knife with a fully enclosed micarta or wood handle this could not be done without destroying the knife. i believe that 'utility' knives should not just be designed for the 'standard' knife uses of cutting/chopping, but also have the versatility to be used in other non-intended purposes as well. sure this is usually against the prescribed recommended use, but often in survival and even utility situations you have to make the most of the tools you have at hand.

cheers,
-gabriel
 
not so much if you are hammering with the knife, but if you are actually hammering the knife - like a chisel.

Now that would make sense. Not so much hammering with the knife as having a hard point built into the bottom of the knife to help drive the point.

n2s
 
I've always used my farm knives for occasionally whacking something around the farm- and used pliers, wrenches, etc. in the same manner. Out in the middle of the field, you pretty much gotta use what ya brought, and given the complexity of the machinery and situations, we don't even always have "the right tool" in our shop back at the farm.

I pretty much agree that I may not buy a knife specifically with pounding in mind, (mainly because it seems I don't like the other design aspects of knives that usually incorporate this feature) but it sure does come in handy when you have that option.
 
Tent pegs and nails are two things that are dangerous to hammer with a pommel. If you miss the end of a spike like these with the pommel you pound on them with your bare hand. If I hammer a spike without the benefit of a hammer handle I like to use something bigger around than a knife butt. I reach for a rock first. In the case of a nail I might use a pommel to finish the last quarter inch of the job to get the nail head flush.
 
not2sharp said:
I never could figure out why anyone would want to hammer anything with the pommel of a knife, or when that became a salient marketing point.

I just added the content at top of the page:
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=24&groupID=77561&ck=http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll

n2s
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Here is my take. Most of the knives that are made with a butt you can use to hammer with are survival knives. Or are knives designed to be used in a extreme environment. Your most important tool in the field after your head is your hands Maybe even equal to your head. If you injure your hands there is not much you can do to preserve your life. Using your knife like a hammer puts your hands in an unreasonable risk. It is way too easy to hit something wrong or even miss and seriously jeprodise your survival. Think back to 7th grade when you read Jack Londons Call of the Wild. Why did the main character perrish? Because he lost the use of his hands. While it may be fiction there is a valuable lesson there. When the cave man put a handle on a rock to make a stone hammer there was a side benifit in addition to being a force multplyer. It protected the users hands by getting them out of the work area. To me it always seemed the most dangerous thing you could do with a knife was to use it as a hammer.
 
not2sharp said:
not so much if you are hammering with the knife, but if you are actually hammering the knife - like a chisel.

Now that would make sense. Not so much hammering with the knife as having a hard point built into the bottom of the knife to help drive the point.

n2s
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It was Ken Warner, IIRC, who emphasized the value of a pommel you could pound with your hand if that was all that was available to drive the knife into something. So he favored flat pommels in a "survival" knife.
 
It was Ken Warner, IIRC, who emphasized the value of a pommel you could pound with your hand if that was all that was available to drive the knife into something. So he favored flat pommels in a "survival" knife.
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The more stress you load on a knife the more likely that it may break or slip; perhaps only to inbed itself in you.

IMHO, when it comes to survival, the less you do the better off you will be; it is all about conserving energy and avoiding injury.

n2s
 
If I was to hammer with my knife, I would use the spine of the blade. On a thick bladed survival knife, this would offer the most control and hand safety.
 
not2sharp said:
The more stress you load on a knife the more likely that it may break or slip; perhaps only to inbed itself in you.
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In this case, this is a pretty minor stress for most knives, a lot less than chopping, batoning and prying. On a partial tang wooden grip of course it would be a big problem.

-Cliff
 
IMHO, when it comes to survival, the less you do the better off you will be; it is all about conserving energy and avoiding injury.
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In the very short term perhaps. I can gather food and water using far less energy than it expends (digging for roots, gather plants, set traps, etc.)

While energy conservation is important, as in don't run around like a spaz screaming and jumping up and down, making the situation as comfortable as possible is just as important, if nothing else it improves morale, keeps you busy and gives you a mental advatage. You are doing something prodctive, not just sitting being miserable. Survival is much about mind set.

As well, when I look at my bulging belly and love handles, I have plenty of stored energy, what Ron Hood calls survival muscle, to keep me going a long while.

As for pommels, as has been pointed out, if it increases the scope of work a knife is capable of, and there is no real cost in performance, then I am all for it.

Newt Livesay used to make a knife called the TAC or TEAM knife (it was an entry tool but would be a damn good survival knife) or something. It had the best hammer poll ever designed IMHO. It was in integral part of the knife, there may be pics on the web somewhere.
 
Newt Livesay used to make a knife called the TAC or TEAM knife (it was an entry tool but would be a damn good survival knife) or something.

Something like this? This one is by W.C Johnson


W.C.JohnsonDiveKnife.jpg


n2s
http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/77/77561/pages/287554/W.C.JohnsonDiveKnife.jpg
 
Nope, but kinda close. There is nothing on google, and Newt's site went down when he went out of business.
 
joeshredd here... And I've used my CRK Aviator numerous times as a field expedient hammer... Mostly for hammering tent pegs. And yes, I did miss once and skinned my knuckles! LOL!! :D
And no, I wouldn't use it routinely if I had another option... Like a small axe or hatchet with a hammer ready poll.

I also have one of those Cuchillo del Monte's... Once I had a professional put an edge on it, I really liked it... but even I didn't try using it as a hammer! I was kinda worried about it's construction: I trust CRK's, but I'm leary of Muela's... :cool:
 
what about the good ol' pilot servival knife? the butt is labeled as a hexagonal hammer.
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When you use them agressively the handle tends to bend.

n2s
 
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