Using the Tibetan sword

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(This is a martial arts thread. It is my thread and its for Dave rishar and Aproy.
I think that the great men and women of the Cantina can handle MA with dignity, so I have no reservations, but I do take responsibility for it.)

This is a reply I sent to Dave about using the tibetan sword. Dave had noticed that the tibetan sword from HI was not responding the way he thought it should, and yet, he felt a tremendous potential in it....

Dave,
I didnt really have much else to say specifically about using the tibetan sword in combat, but in general we (students of japanese martial arts) try to use the bare minimum amount of energy necessary to stay alive. you might want to just try it that way and see what happens.

(When we see someone demonstrating some kind of budo and they sweat or grimace, we interpret this as a sign of a low level of skill...)

Don't think about the sword, forget you have it.
When your partner cuts at you, just try to not get cut. If the sword involves itself in that situation, fine. If not, that's fine too. Try not to judge these things in terms of "Did I USE it, what did it DO?"

If you want to judge or concentrate on something, think about your feet during the fight.
Dont forget that HE will be concentrating on your sword, and you can use that to your advantage as well.
(like a cat toy)

when I am training with really new guys, I often say under my breath "dont fight, dont fight, just be there, just be there."
I pretend I am saying it to myself, and sometimes I really am, but the benefit is often very visible. They relax and become supple and their movement improves dramatically.

Try it out and let me know how it feels.
 

Steely_Gunz

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I'm really glad you started this thread, Danny:) I know that I personally use way too much energy in everything I do. I guess it's the old working class/football mentality of "if you ain't sweatin', then you ain't workin." I still fight that a little bit today with my job as I don't DO much. Anyway, i find this discussion on not thinking about the sword as well as not keeping a sword razor sharp fasinating. I have an HI kat that I really like, and I ALMOST snapped up the Tibetan sword from a few days ago. I was right there and decided not to go ahead with it. I'm going to have to get one of those one day. Anyway, I don't have much to add to this thread, but i'm looking forward to reading it:)


Jake
 
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When I started fencing many years ago (it has been a long time since i did it), I learned, and taught others, "don't fight the sword!" You would see beginners follw their opponents sword, even if very far out of line. I haven't started sparring in kendo yet, but I warn myself and my boys about the same concept.

I see a lot of the students in the dojo making bigger than seems necessary movements with the sword. back in my fencing days the better fencers in the club would say,"a miss by a millimeter is as good(or better!) than a miss by a mile."

Footwork... When I first got back from active duty and visited my fencing club, I got on the strip with my mentor, a regular top 10 epee fencer in the US at the time. I hadn't touched a blade in two years. His comment during the bout was"will you stand still so I can get you!!". I was in such great shape, but didn't realize it. I could just move in and out of range faster than he could easily keep up.

Too bad that was 17 years ago...

Good stuff Danny!

Tom
 

Fiddleback

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Thanks for keeping this thread alive Danny. Its great reading. I have always been curious, but never actively involved with any type of MA. I am, however, interested in getting my daughter into MA both for the discipline, and the self defense benefits. I need to get back into shape because I'm certainly not athletic anymore.
 
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In shape? That's good and it's healthy and responsible, but to tell you the truth, I get very little excercise from my training. Some, I guess, about the same as 2 hours of shopping...

Like I said, we try to use the minimum necessary amount of energy. I think everyone should do a little martial arts if they can. I guess the most important thing to do if you are new to the martial arts is to try to wipe away all of the preconceptions you may have about martial arts.
Common sense is a powerful tool, never give it up or let it get rusty.

I have just ordered a Tibetan sword with an extra long handle (11"):D
I cant wait to see how it comes out!
 
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DannyinJapan said:
I have just ordered a Tibetan sword with an extra long handle (11"):D
I cant wait to see how it comes out!

That ought to be interesting. I wonder how it will handle. (Pardon the pun.)
 
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Well the Tibetan short sword has a 23 to 24 inch blade, I believe, which puts it at the short end of the katana spectrum, but still longer than a classic short sword.
So, I'd like it to have a properly sized grip, in terms of katanas, which is two and a half or three palm widths.
11" is just about 2 and three quarters for me, a good compromise.
 
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I often say under my breath "dont fight, dont fight, just be there, just be there."
>>>>>>> DIJ

We took psychotic patients down in the Psych Ward, and I'm no great physical specimen. I was there. If you wanted to swing your fist at a cute girl because you thought she was passing signals to the alien task force I'd get ahold of your arm. Now, you may be stronger than I, but I'm not going away. I'm there. Right now. I don't have to beat you, I keep my own safety while foiling your assaults.

People come to the rescue and the take down was good; no one got hurt. Not the attacker, the staff, the alien or the girl.



munk
 
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There were some good gems in that first post, Danny. Thanks for those. Sounds like you are getting nice high quality training over there.
 
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I have a tendancy to be like my Celt and Viking forbearers...a real berserker! :D add my height (about 6'0 maybe 6'2) and some rather uncommon strenght-well you can see what I'm capable of! :eek:

While I grew up with ninja and shogun flicks I tend to prefer sword and shield type warfare,mind a good katana is ok...I just think i'm too wild for it to be used right.

Also know that the way I see to fight is to use any means one can from bashing with the shield to crotch-kicking the other guy...Falcata type swords are good for this kind of thing-no stabbing just 'ol hack and bash.:D
 
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I've spent years trying to train the berserker out of me. Hopefully, I'll never have to find out if I've succeeded.

John
 
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Is there anything wrong with the Beserker if you're outnumbered, the situation is hopeless, and you'd rather go down fighting?



munki
 
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I'd say having a great fighting spirit is great and it might save you in a bad situation, but Id never agree that it was ok to just attack anyone and everyone or lose your control or whatever being a berserker means...

If you have to use strength, try to have only a strong heart. That's the only muscle that needs it.
 

Fiddleback

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Is that a quote? It's great no matter. I really like reading your posts Danny. Thanks for doing this thread.
 

Daniel Koster

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very cool thread...lots I still have to learn.
 
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train the berserker out?? why?? When someone is trying to stick ya, being ruthless, coldblooded, cruel and visious are to your benefit..As long as ya dont get to far out there that ya dont come back then it is all good

Train the berserker "somewhat" so that you still have some measure of control?? yea I can see that to a certain extant..however ya still gonna have to get bloody one way or another, why not make sure that LOTS of it belongs to your attacker is all I am saying...

IOW...when a goblin is slashing at your eye with a straightrazor and the bum manages to connnect with said eyebrow (and it bleeds bad enough that ya cant see and you THINK he got your eye) it is NOT the time to worry about holding back...Trust me that crap leaves an ugly scar...yea I will show ya mine someday if ya real nice...:p

Please do not mistake my post as being derogatory about MA...I have studied 2 different styles in my time and I found them useful...however alot of stuff gets left in the dojo when your alone on the street, and then all ya got is ugly cold blooded calculated visious aggression, and if ya use it, then ya might just live to brag about the scars later in life:D
 
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Trying to piece this together...

To say it in other words, passion can be good or even necessary, but it should be under control?

maybe instead of beserk we could say, judiciously vigorous?

It would seem to me, again, never having been in such a situation, that when badly hurt, it is even more critical to remain in control?

If an instictive, vicious response gets the job done though, that might be good. It would be better than giving up.

In a military context, it would seem to me that endurance would be a useful attribute. fatigue can hinder judgement, as well as the application of learned fine motor skills.

Thanks again Danny, and all of you!

Tom
 

Steely_Gunz

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I dunno. Now I'm not a martial artist. The closest thing to MA that I have any training in is Grecco Roman wrestling, and that was dang near 10 years ago now. However, i guess it falls on your fight or flight reflex. Which are you more apt to do? A lot of people say "fight", but I can tell you from personal experience that when a car backfires or someone startles me I get low, turn my vitals from the danger, and my joints snap into a sprinters stance ready to book. I can't see the value in a hopeless situation of going berserk. I would think that berserk is really just a form of panic with uncalculated swings that can potentially open up your defense for a very bloody mortal wound. Viking Berserkers, from what very little i know about them, were used as more of a "shock and awe" psychological tactic, i believe. The ship hits the shores and light armoured highly mobile sprinting animals come with fire and hell towards you. That impacts how you will fight. But i think that is more of an attack advantage over a SD one.
Personally, if i ever get in a bad situation, then my head will probably be on a swivel. Looking, keeping my wits, minding my vitals and peripherals, looking for a way out. Hopefully, that will cause my adrenalin go into a focused burn. Grapples can be broken, legs can kick off attackers, defensive grips that normally trap can potentially inflict harm on the attacker in the forms of dislocation and vascular damage.
Like I have said, I have no idea what I am talking about when it comes to SD or any MA. All I know how to do is avoid danger and keep space between the deadly ends and less deadly ends of an attacker. Of course, as always, YMMV. Some of you brutes could go nuts and beat a man into a sausage patty. I come in at 5'10 175lbs. Dense and fairly fit, but those dang laws of phsysics rain on my parade of physically crushing a man. Some men take the path of the bear. Nothing opposes their mighty jaws and bulk. Some men take the path of the eagle. Wise and above the danger, ever seeing and striking only when the time is right. I take the path of weasle. You grab my tail, I turn back, bite your hand, and get back to my hole;)

very interesting thread, guys:)

Jake
 
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(This was supposed to be a thread about using the tibetan sword in, basically, the Oriental way. We got some thread drift, and I'd rather we didn't. no offense..)

Originally, Dave Rishar was saying that he felt as though his European style sword work was not "working" with his tibetan sword. I was trying to offer my ideas on why that might be. In essence, I believe the Tibetan sword to be an ancient design one more often sees in China, Korea and Japan.
This design is not a "swinging" sword, but a subtly manipulated weapon.

It may seem abstract, but some exquisitely designed swords can only be used well by good people. A "good person" means someone who is well-trained, patient, calm, aware, relaxed and in possession of a good heart.
Letting fear, anger or desire rule your heart and cause you to lose control is failure. This is true for a man with a sword or a recovering alcoholic.
 
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