USMC needs to be more discrete

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DannyinJapan

DannyinJapan

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I gotta tall ya, I am not happy with the behavior of some USMC people in recent years.
I'm sure these are freak incidents, but the USMC is either attracting the wrong people or it's not doing enough to weed out the unstable types BEFORE they get trained how to kill.

the USMC has the reputation of being rapists in Japan.
In Texas we just had a kidnapping/crime spree/murder by an ex-marine.
And of course, my friend Mayhem and four others were killed by an ex-marine as well.

Im sure its all just bad luck, but these werent Air Force guys.
What's going on?

Is it just that the bad guys like the idea of the Marine corps?
 
I've noticed the same thing too, but I don't know what to make of it. The USMC really needs to do some serious counseling on these guys that will be coming back from Iraq so they don't flame out in civil society.

I can't imagine how hard it will be for a soldier that is used to being able to basically shoot anyone they even have a remote suspicion of being a bad guy with impunity, to go back to say working in a 7/11 where you have to take abuse off people every day. That is just gonna be an extremelyt hard adjustment.
 
I think this makes sense.

As a generality (not applicable to specific cases) I think the someone who wants to be a marine is going to me more aggressive than the average bear. Many will have issues and there will be a higher percentage that go off the deep end compared to more normal society.
 
No...I think they just stand out more because the Corps is smaller and is projected to hold to a higher standard. With a smaller population sample, they simply seem more frequent.

In Japan, the Corps is the predominant branch...not to mention the WWII propaganda when they spread rumors that the Marines were coming to invade and that they would rape the women and then eat the babies. Hundreds of Okinawan women went off cliffs out of fear alone...and I believe that those old horror stories still circulate.
 
Another thing may simply be that they're stuck in Japan - now wait, just hear me out before anyone gets angry at that comment. It's not intended as an insult to anyone.

Remember the culture shock thread? You've got some very confused servicemen in Japan right now. I don't believe I talked to anyone who was stationed there (and I asked quite often) that was happy about it. Different people react to dislocation of this sort in different ways. I drank a lot and tended to stay on base. I suppose others might get violent.

It's not just the marines that get into trouble over there...the sailors are quite often involved as well. Of course, marines and sailors make up most of the servicemen over there anyway; it's only natural that they'd be responsible for the majority of the problems. (And only natural that an increasingly intolerant population would start to make generalizations about them.)

Something to consider, and I don't mean to imply that it's the case here: in Kitsap County, the general perception seems to be that sailors are wild drunkards who raise hell...basically, petty criminals who drink too much. Even though the sailors represent a cross section of America in general, the crime rates amongst servicemembers (especially violent crime) is typically lower than that of the population they're living amongst. How did we end up with this reputation here?

The Bremerton Sun (I will name names and point fingers here) is the large local paper. They have a certain way of reporting things. Civilian: "Bremerton Man Arrested for Sexual Assault." Sailor: "USS Sacramento Sailor Arrested for Sexual Assault." Marine: "Bangor Marine Arrested for Sexual Assault, Second this Year."

Multiply by fifty years or so, and all of a sudden, all sailors (and marines) are criminals.

Not the whole answer, of course, I believe this is part of it. As they say, perception is everything.
 
Was it a Marine who raped the little girl in the Phillipines that really got the US out movement rolling?

Someone tell me- historically, Marines got some bottom feeders, but they also had professors, writers, 'aristocracy' etc etc. (yes, me too- If I was going to join up, I figured it would be the Marines. IT's hard to explain why- it's where the buck stops, it's where the word from politicians become real. Romantic notions? Sure. )

My idea of Marines is exemplified by the people on this forum. Pappy, Semper, and others.

But Danny in Japan- as our society continues it's degeneration, so will our armed services. They can only reflect where they came from. How many of our sports heros, (and politicians) are involved in murder and rape? Too many.

Out of wedlock or one parent homes in neighborhoods of the same are not good for children or us.


munk
 
It's different in the Air Force. The majority of guys I knew who who were stationed in Japan loved it. Most of them came home with a Japanese wife, a Nikon camera, and a good stereo.
 
I'm not a military guy so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the Marines are more combat oriented than the other branches. That is, all Marines are "riflemen" to a greater extent than everybody in the Army is. Now, the US Army Rangers are some pretty raw dudes, and a few have probably gone haywire but there are more Marines than Rangers. Thus the laws of probability suggest that more Marines are going to end up on the news for less than glorious reasons.
 
Nasty said:
I believe that those old horror stories still circulate.
Click to expand...

this is highly likely.

There were some rapes of 13 year old Japanese girls on the beach by US marines about 4 years ago, though, so it isnt all just ancient myth.

It just seems like there have been some high-profile crimes that featured marines than any other service.
Maybe they just have more motivation...

Lee Harvey Oswald
Charles Whitman
Nathan Gale
Johnny Lee Williams
 
One of those guys is the Texas clocktower, right? Not really fair to blame the marines for a brain tumor that nutted him over the edge.



munk
 
Nasty said:
...not to mention the WWII propaganda when they spread rumors that the Marines were coming to invade and that they would rape the women and then eat the babies. Hundreds of Okinawan women went off cliffs out of fear alone...and I believe that those old horror stories still circulate.
Click to expand...

My mom worked with a guy back in the early 60's that had been a Japanese soldier. He was either a scientist or an engineer at the Rubber factory she worked at.

He said that when he was drafted that they told them the American soldiers were huge and tall and covered with hair. He said he took it for propaganda...Till he saw his first US soldiers and found out it was true :eek:
 
I know such records weren't really kept, but I think it would be interesting to see figures regarding violent crime rates, PTSD, and the like for ex-soldiers throughout history. Did retired legionaries snap? How many returning crusaders tripped offline?

Even throughout the last century, I wouldn't be surprised to see certain parallels.
 
Okay, okay... We're big and tall and hairy...and some occasionally (like others) rape. My point was the blind prejudice based in part by racism (I don't think it's unfair to make such a comment since I observed it myself in Jappan), part in old propaganda and part in the way the US forces stand out so plainly in Japan which contribute to an impression that Marines are worse than any other segment of a population in general.

I am disturbed that such an impression might be voiced without balancing the equation.

For each bad apple you can cite, I would like to see equal citation for the thousands of Marines upholding the highest ideals of Liberty around the world. I would like to see credit paid as it is owed to the Marines who have died defending that which they may have been too young to even understand. I would like to see that the respect an American has for a guy who just happens to select the sharp uniform and works for 3 years in a mess hall because it's part of the combined force required does not diminish just because they have moved overseas for a few years.

Semper Fi from an Army grunt and AF bluesuiter
 
My memory is a little foggy on the comment that I'm going to make, but if I remember right, there was a rape problem in Okinawa, related to US soldiers that were stationed there. I've heard tale of some of the old karate-ka taking law into their own hands. I can't remember much details, but seems like it was a significant problem that radically affected the way Okinawans viewed our forces there.

Ben - chime in. I'm sure you've got a more accurate view of this.

Can't remember if I heard that from martial artists, soldiers, or a family member that served 7 yrs in UDT. He always told me a lot of old stories.
 
Lion's Roar said:
... I remember right, there was a rape problem in Okinawa...
Click to expand...
I don't know why anyone would have to rape in Okinawa. There was always more poon there than the average guy could ever tang.

All you had to do was sit at the bar in the NCO club, turn your head to either side and you would instantly find a mamasan of your choosing. For a few bucks more you could have her three sisters and her mother.
 
Personally, I'd like to see the minimum age requirement for Armed Forces service raised to 21.
If you cant buy a beer or a pistol, then you have no business being in charge of a prison in Iraq or guarding nuclear weapons.
 
Perhaps the drinking and pistol age ought to be reduced to 18?

I never liked the fact that a man could die for his country, yet couldn't have a drink while considering that possibility. Yes, in certain circumstances he could, but for the most part, INCONUS, it is an impossibility. That grates on my nerves.
 
DannyinJapan said:
Im sure its all just bad luck, but these werent Air Force guys.
What's going on?

Is it just that the bad guys like the idea of the Marine corps?
Click to expand...


I live close anough to an Airforce base in Middle Ga. We just had a Airman kill another Airman and his wife with a Big knife. . And we just had another Airman charged with hire a hit man to kill his supervisor ... There are bad apples in everybarrel... Nobody is immune...... When I was in the Army ..in 1986 while serveing in Germany, My Roomate and his buddies killed another solider by hanging him on a Huge religious Cross on a hill side over looking our base. Killed him over a stolen pistol and drugs , deal gone bad. Found out I was also on there hit list during the trial.I was suppose to get wacked on down the line....He wasn't my roomate by choice. I had to testifiy against him for things I knew about and saw. .... Wild times........ WarDawg
 
USMC = Uncle Sam's Misguided Children.

I used to say that to be a Marine there had to be some question to your parentage and still think that about some. But the majority of Marines I've met are great guys with the same kinds of values and personal beliefs that I have along with most everybody on this forum.
Those that were raised with good values kept them, those that weren't didn't have them to begin with.:grumpy:
Other than those who went off the deep end for medical reasons I wonder how the others record's read and what kind of discharges they received.
I'm betting they had trouble in the Corps before they got out.

It's my opinion that anyone getting out of any military service from being in a war zone recently should have at least two months of forced quiet time just to settle down and relax. War does a funny thing to men and they need time to recover from a place where death is common and life is cheap.
The WW II Vets got their quiet time coming back on the ships and there were still those that suffered horribly for years after.
But people were different back then, stronger and with a good solid base and belief system. Not only that, they had the support of their families and nothing can replace that!
In today's nuclear family it seems everyone is on their own.:(

I also bet that if statistics were compiled that there would be just as many bad apples from other branches of the military as there are Marines who have gone bad.:grumpy:
 
My opinion: The armed forces attract some people who join because they have no other option. The difference is the Marine Corps trains them to kill. That's it. Maybe if Oswald had been an airman he wouldn't have been trained to hit man-sized targets at 500 yards and Kennedy would still be alive. Also, the 21 for pistols and alcohol is bogus. I'm in a room with a 17 year old Marine, he tried to buy a cell phone but wasn't allowed to sign the contract without a parent! He signed a 5 year contract as an infantryman but can't buy a stinkin cell phone.
 
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