Usual Suspects Unite - A Challenge to the Disgruntled

[Eric Blair]

As a Usual Suspect, I consider it my duty not only to defend EKI, but also to help put these alleged QC issues to rest once and for all. Here's what I propose;
Do we have any other Usual Suspects who would be willing to allow the owners of all of these allegedly defective Emerson Knives to send YOU (as a Usual Suspect) their Emerson Knives so that WE (as Usual Suspects) can not only photograph and post pics of the allegedly unsatisfactory knife, but also to act as mediator in order to resolve any repair issues involved?
1. If you are a Usual Suspect who is willing to take part in this project, please reply to this post stating such.
2. If you are a disgruntled Emerson knife owner who would like a Usual Suspect to assist you in returning and resolving your unsatisfactory Emerson knife, please reply to this post stating such.

In other words, "put up or shut up" so that we can all go back to enjoying our forums.
I am willing to assist by allowing those with allegedly dysfunctional knives to send them to me via UPS, and I will photograph the knife in question AND report my findings honestly here in the Emerson Forum. IF the alleged problem is factual, I will be more than happy to both return the knife to Emerson and to mediate the process via both e-mail and/or phone. I believe that there are many other Usual Suspects who would be more than willing to do the same. Any takers?

Now, for the people who didn't catch the sarcasm of this post; Of course this concept is ridiculous, and nobody is going to send their Emerson Knife to a Usual Suspect because doing so would burst their Rant Bubble. My entire point of this post is WHERE are these bad knives??

[This message has been edited by Eric Blair (edited 02-11-2001).]

 

[Scott Dog]

Eric:
I think that if EKI would "put up", the complainers on the forums would "shut up". Don't you ever get the feeling that Ernie is indifferent to his customers? People with problems should send their knives to EKI. What makes you such an expert?

 

[Eric Blair]

Scott,
Read between the lines. There's alot of people complaining, yet where are the pics of defects? Of course these people should send these allegedly bad knives back to EKI, but do they? And if not, WHY not?? WHY so many complainers, yet so few people actually producing defective specimens? This doesn't seem strange to you? Everyone is yelling "FIRE!" yet where is the smoke?
Expert? Yeah, I can expertly make a phone call, and I can expertly pack a knife into a box and address it properly, and I can expertly take a digital-pic of a problem and post it in order to demonstrate a QC issue, which seems to be more than what the chronic complainers can do. IF I had a bad knife I would be able to prove it, and then I wouldn't rest until the manufacturer made it right.
It just seems that we don't have much proof being demonstrated here. Some people like to spine-whack knives to see if the liner-lock will fail, and all that tells me is that we have people who plan to cut with the false-edge of their knife. What sense does that make?


[This message has been edited by Eric Blair (edited 02-11-2001).]

 

[John Hollister]

Eric,

Your hearts in the right place brother!

Chris posted the question "What can we do?"
I am but a mere customer of EKI and Emerson Specwar knives.

We, as customers, can encourage people like Shadow that have a legitimate problem to get with EKI and get there knife resolved. Locks wear, it happens.

Others . . . well, look at their history of posting.

The more you feed it, the higher the flames will get. Don't play their games.

Since, Microtech was brought up, let me say that they are an Industry leader in fit and finish. I don't think there is a maker out there that can touch Tony in that respect. His knifes are works of art, I own several (even high end pieces). But he's been a victim of the Internet too. A mistake, in my opinion, that has cost him thousands. Nay saying Trolls have played a part in the problems MT is currently having.

Consider the sources of the postings your seeing. Realize that no mechanical object is perfect and some will fail. But allow the manufacturer, whoever they may be, to make the situation right.

I'm sure Ernie and Mary would be honored by the defenses that have been written here, but I'm sure they would be more then happy to take care of their customers. As I posted in the General Forums, many of these folks don't have problems, they just enjoy creating heart ache and discontent.

Again, just my opinion and experience.

John

[This message has been edited by John Hollister (edited 02-11-2001).]

 

[Eric Blair]

John,
I edited my original post within this thread in order to make it perfectly clear to anyone who reads it that my sarcastic approach is merely an attempt to flush-out the nay-sayers and doom-screamers.
Yes, we are Emerson Customers, but we are also Usual Suspects. It seems strange to me that we rarely hear of a Usual Suspect with major quality control issues, and when a suspect does have an issue, it's typically resolved quite easily. Perhaps Ernie just hates everyone who's not a Usual Suspect? Okay, I can live with that.

 

[Jackal]

Why is it so hard to believe that many Commanders have a problem? I've been questioning them a lot lately, to see if things have gotten any better, or what, because I have beiefly handled aoubt 5 Commanders, and all had terible lockup, and blade rubbing the liners. Just to be safe, I might run over and check a few out here in a bit. If I find something out, one way, or another...I'll let you all know. I think I have one on it's way to me here in a few...so if I get it, you can bet you'll all hear about it, and if something is wrong, I'll get pics.

-AR

 

[jc]

My two defective Commanders were sent back to Emerson and I no longer have one. When the first unit's lock went sour, I sent it back for a replacement.....and the second defective unit was also sent back when its lock failed.

I never moaned and groaned about the first one going bad, but to have them send me another, whose QC was worse than the first, was outrageous.

My main grip is this all took place over a year ago and NOTHING HAS CHANGED with the quality of these knives. I still read posts about how quality........for lack of other words.......sucks. How the locks fail. This is a real issue and is a cause for concern. The loss of a finger or use of one is a possible result of this s***y quality.

The spine wack test is a valid test especially for a "fighter". Do you really think there is no possiblity of having the spine of your blade hit during a fight. Stop making escuses for failure of this test.

I wish the best for you "Usual Suspects" and pray you don't get bitten by your Emerson. This "complainer" doesn't want to hear about any more Emerson liner lock failures.....but this will obviously not be a reality.

jc


[This message has been edited by jc (edited 02-11-2001).]

[This message has been edited by jc (edited 02-11-2001).]

 

[chrisJohn]

Defend Emerson knives?

What?

No company is perfect, Emerson included. Sure they are still trying to iron out the production side of things. Do they need owners who seem to glean their self worth via ownership of a particular knife? Absolutely not.

I have a good friend who upon checking out one of my '98 Commanders ordered two the same day. One had liner issues, the other the blade was so far against one of the liners that he scraped off a dramatic amount of black T on the initial opening. I relate this, because I doubt that posters are "manufacturing" defective knives.

EKI should warranty knives no questions asked, stream line their production, maybe not make so many different knives at one time. If anything the complaints will bring about better products. What is wrong with that?

 

[2Sharp]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by chrisJohn:
EKI should warranty knives no questions asked, stream line their production, maybe not make so many different knives at one time. If anything the complaints will bring about better products. What is wrong with that?</font>

I'm pretty sure that EKI will do just that. And again, nothing wrong pointing out things that one thinks is wrong, just don't piss and moan 'bout it!
Got problem send it back, not to your satisfaction? buy another brand of knives.
All knives aren't for all people.

Off eating breakfast

------------------
Be well!/Jonas aka 2Sharp

"May all your detonations be expected"

The coolest bar in the world: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/8373/index.html
My knives!

 

[SALTY]

I also feel that ir is EKI that should "put up." EKI is the one that wants premium prices and premium reputation as a "hard use" knife. My Commander, (my first EKI), did not have a grossly off-center blade, but the fit and finish was poor, the grind uneven and wasn't what I expected in sharpness. The liners were so rough tooled and poor fitted I could not help but to show off that "feature" of the knife.

Bottom line, there was nothing sooo wrong with the knife that I wanted to go through the inconvenience, time and expense of sending it back, waiting and waiting only to get back the knife that EKI should have built in the first place and, BTW, the one they charged me for.

Hey, all I want is to use and enjoy my Commander and be a happily everafter Usual Suspect. I did my part, too bad EKI didn't do theirs. I am not, nor did I sign up to be, an unsalaried QC inspector for EKI.

I really like the Wave and maybe, if enough people who really want to like EKI provide feedback then maybe EKI will rise to the moment. So lighten up or reimburse my shipping/handling and time to return a knife, give me a loaner to "hard use" while you evaluate, inspect, mediate, coordinate, facilitate, capitulate and whatever else you need to do to realize that maybe it's EKI and not everyone else! ... and buy me a beer

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 02-12-2001).]

 

[SALTY]

It's been a couple of days now and no word from Eric, or EKI for that matter. Oh well!

 

[Don Rearic]

I'm a very gruntled Emerson Owner.

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.

 

[FK]

I have been reading this exchange and normally do not post comments to an emotional issue. My experience with two Emmerson knives is very negative.

First was a custom Viper purchased new from a long time Emmerson dealer. The fit and finish were fine, the blade scraped the liner regardless of how the main pivot screw was adjusted. Send it back?? A brand new custom knife, not a chance,,,the design was flawed with spacers too thin on the locking bar side and poor quality in the construction of main pivot pin fit. I shipped it back to my dealer in exchange for another custom by a different maker.

Second was a new Commander purchased within a few months of new model release. I picked over three knives to find one with reasonable blade and edge grind allignment. The main pivot screw would not hold position and constantly moved. I am very particular with my knives and never snap open the blade, I tried the wave feature a few times and was not impressed. The dedent for holding the blade in closed position was not very secure. My personal opinion was poor QC and overpriced wrt Benchmade. Sold that knife off at a loss.

Compare any Emmerson product,,,custom or factory to the present output from MT LCC M/A or Chris Reeve Sebenza.

FK

 

[Don Rearic]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by FK:
I am very particular with my knives and never snap open the blade[1], I tried the wave feature a few times and was not impressed.[2] The dedent for holding the blade in closed position was not very secure.[3] My personal opinion was poor QC and overpriced wrt Benchmade.[4] Sold that knife off at a loss.[5]
FK</font>

[1] Right off the bat, if you do not snap a knife open, whatever, The Wave is going to snap it open, therefore, knowing and understanding precisely what a Wave Opening is and the mechanics of it, you should have passed right then and there.

[2] You tried the Wave Feature a "few times" and you were not impressed? You did not elaborate...did you expect it to scramble eggs for you or what? Since you don't snap your knives open, as you stated, then what? The Wave snaps the blade open. Were you unable to open the blade using The Wave? You just made a statement, that carried no weight because you never elaborated...if you are putting forth the idea The Wave does not work, I'm more than sorry, that is either your problem because you did not want to "snap" the knife open or it is a familiarity problem.

[3] I have never had a Commander open in my pocket, some might have. I would consider it an extremely rare happening. I have carried a Commander, except for in Courthouses and Airports since July 1998. No problems. Red Herring.

[4] Excluding the Benchmade #44, #45 & #48 BaliSongs, the finest folders I have ever seen from BM were the CQC-7, not just because it was a Custom Collaboration with Emerson, but because it was built like a tank. The other "best" BM I saw was an AFCK with mottled green aluminum scales instead of G10 that was absolutely terrific. That is my personal opinion.

[5] If you sold a 1998 Commander at a loss, I really feel sorry for you...especially since they are fetching a very nice price right now I would imagine. I have one, I had two...I kick myself every time I enter this Forum or look at one of my Emersons for getting rid of the other one.



------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.

 

[DOUBLESTACK]

Wow, I feel like I'm in one of those "my 1911 is better than everything else" discussions. I own 2 CQC-7s from Benchmade. 1 is NIB with HK marks and the USP pistol on the back. The other I bought used. The used one came from a guy who spent 11 years in SOF. He carried this knife to Bogata, Middle East, Asia, Alaska, in the sand in the snow and underwater and I'm sure other places that he won't say. He carried this knife daily since it came came from Benchmade.
So I'm looking at it in my hand......screws still have their finish, blade is still centered. The blade has only 2 very little scratches of black coating. a little bit on the tip from sharpening. Still cuts like hell.
Anyways, I don't own any from EKI. Why? Because all the commanders I've held (1 at a gun shop and 7 at a gun show) all had defects on them. And you think I'm gonna buy from the internet when I haven't seen them first hand. Sure your Emersons don't have defects but that doesn't mean others that have them don't. Are they being effectively called liars by some in this forum? Do we just consider the wobbly blades, worn finishes "STANDARD" on EK? I hope not. This ain't a new topic. Look at the archives. Your always hearing about somebody that just got thier New SOCFK or Commander or such back from EK for repair. As for people that are coming in here and slamming EK and complaining.....this is an EK forums no? We are allowed to speak what we feel about EK here...no? Theres no sign here that says "Only Shinny Happy Posts About Emerson Knives Allowed, All Others Go ElseWhere". This is were we can all put our heads together and praise the knives or find out whats wrong and have them fixed. Don't slam or make fun of people because your knife works and theres won't and consider them whiny because he should just suck it up and send a knife back for repair when he shouldn't have to send a brand new knife in for repair. When I buy an Emerson knife it's going one place and thats my pocket....not back to EKI for repair before the check even clears the bank.

Jesse

P.S. I forgot to mention that the BM CQC-7 liner-lock is still rock solid to this day. I'm pretty sure that this knife was made when BM had a top QC dept.




[This message has been edited by DOUBLESTACK (edited 02-16-2001).]

 

[See2]

Got both my SOCFK and Commander "blind". Commander from eBay, and SOCFK from Extreme Outfitters. Neither have problems with QC, blade centering, or lock. Am I lucky? maybe. I perfer to think I got "STANDARD" Emersons.

My .02

 

[FK]

Don Rearic,
One response and I will go away.

1. I wanted to test the wave opening concept first hand. Again as stated, tried it and was underimpressed. I face a threat,,,,,then why use a knife that is designed to open by moving it in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION? You must overcome the inertia of your knife and arm moving to the rear and reverse direction to bring the weapon towards the threat.

2. I prefer to use the disk opener on the commander blade. The knife is thrust forward and opened, not moved to the rear and reverse direction to the front as with the wave feature. I would have purchased the commander with or without the wave notch. The reputation was this knife is heavy duty, tough and well constructed. My preference is disk or Spyderco hole, just a personal thing. Many users pound the crap out of a liner lock by snaping the blade open several hundred times a day, then complain about the lockup travel and loose stop pin. Why abuse your tools then complain about what a POS this knife company produces. Nothing to do with scrambled eggs or understanding the mechanics of wave opening.

3. Nothing was stated about opening in pocket with commander. Mine had very poor dedent pressure to hold the blade closed, a problem waiting to happen due to poor design and QC period. In pocket, in handling when out of pocket or whatever, I just did not like the blade swinging open so easily.

4. Agree the BM CQC7 was very well designed and manufactured, I owned several of the initial knives when introduced. The only problems with the CQC7 was that most had blades rubbing the liners, easy fix with thicker washers on the lock side however, BM never modified the original design. Sounds very familiar to many EKI liner lock designs.

5. Yes, I dumped the '98 commander,,,liked the disk, great handle design, the blade was very interesting with curved profile,,,,just poor QC and flimsy lockup bar.

6. Any comments on the custom Emmerson knives? My custom Viper was a serious letdown, very happy to receive full credit towards another knife after three weeks of disapointing ownership. Many of the CQC6 and similar Emmerson models I have inspected at knife shows also have blade rubbing the liners, of course they are for collection and posting photographs, not for use in the real world.

FK

 

[ROSANGHAL]

Originally posted by FK:
Don Rearic,
One response and I will go away.

1. I wanted to test the wave opening concept first hand. Again as stated, tried it and was underimpressed. I face a threat,,,,,then why use a knife that is designed to open by moving it in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION? You must overcome the inertia of your knife and arm moving to the rear and reverse direction to bring the weapon towards the threat.

My answer: Just because you face a threat doesn't mean having the knife out and open will take away the problem. Your comment is a training issue. You can deploy the knife while using a retention technique such as a low crouch and thrusting the elbow towards the mid-section of the attacker while deploying the blade with the other arm. Do you really think an attacker is gonna let you go for your knife in your pocket and let you pull it out and then open it.....and stand still while your doing it. The Commander will deploy as you are pulling it out and you gain little more time and possibly a way out if you down him with the elbow thrust.

2. I prefer to use the disk opener on the commander blade. The knife is thrust forward and opened, not moved to the rear and reverse direction to the front as with the wave feature. I would have purchased the commander with or without the wave notch. The reputation was this knife is heavy duty, tough and well constructed. My preference is disk or Spyderco hole, just a personal thing. Many users pound the crap out of a liner lock by snaping the blade open several hundred times a day, then complain about the lockup travel and loose stop pin. Why abuse your tools then complain about what a POS this knife company produces. Nothing to do with scrambled eggs or understanding the mechanics of wave opening.

I have deployed all my Commanders hard and have done a lot of cutting drills with them and haven't had the need to complain about it. I have a Commander trainer that i use to do deployment drills and cuts to a Spar-Pro dummy that has never failed me.

The Spydie hole is cool and i've trained with them to it is a personal thing and i prefer the WAVE.

3. Nothing was stated about opening in pocket with commander. Mine had very poor dedent pressure to hold the blade closed, a problem waiting to happen due to poor design and QC period. In pocket, in handling when out of pocket or whatever, I just did not like the blade swinging open so easily.

Sorry i haven't had that happen to me. Can't say it doesn't happen but it hasn't happened to me. And i wear my Commander all the time except when showering

Can't find a spot to clip the bugger onto. Any suggestions?

6. Any comments on the custom Emmerson knives? My custom Viper was a serious letdown, very happy to receive full credit towards another knife after three weeks of disapointing ownership. Many of the CQC6 and similar Emmerson models I have inspected at knife shows also have blade rubbing the liners, of course they are for collection and posting photographs, not for use in the real world.

I think a fellow Usual Suspect L.E.O. from Europe has quite the opposite to tell you. There is a bad guy who has quite a nick from a CQC6 that was used to save his and his partners skins.

I have several and have had some 6's they were all solid and didn't rub the liners. When i get somemore in i will carry these and use them. As soon as Mr. Emerson get me mine i'll give you a report on how their holding up.

good night
Ross T.

 

[John Hollister]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">And i wear my Commander all the time except when showering

Can't find a spot to clip the bugger onto. Any suggestions?

</font>

Yeh, actually I do, but it would probably deploy when you pulled it out.

 

[moeman]

I have had two Comanders,
the first one i had i used for eight months without failure/or defects untill the wave hook broke off.
I sent it back to Emerson and they replaced it with a brand new one it is perfect and i have carried it for five months without fail.
I also have had two LaGriff neck knives gave one to a friend and kept the other one.
I also bought a CQC-7 from Benchmade when they first came out and never have had a problem with it either.
love my emersons!