Various firestarting methods

One other ignition source you may want to consider is something like the Z-plus insert for a Zippo. Yes like anything that uses butane it will not last forever, but for most of the tinders listed it will only need a short burst from the lighter. It works well on Wetfire, but like you found without a really good wind break it will go out. I was recently testing out some Wetfire myself and found that it does work better as a block, but it is necessary to open it up just a bit for fast ignition. One handed all you would need to do is use a blade or something that could break off some of it. (Not something you would want to do under the tests you did, but it will work.) This is also true with Esbit. As far as the Wetfire goes, yes it does float well in water and burn. It lasted for at least 5 mins just floating.

Does the Coglhans paste say whats it's made of?
 
Great review Mapper!

For an easy way to carry smaller amounts of firepaste, use an empty travel size tube of toothpaste that has been washed out. Hold tubes end-to-end and squeeze firepaste into toothpaste tube. Will be a little messy, so do it outside.
 
Magnussen said:
Great experiment, Mapper.....

There are ways around a wet Bic.... I posted a video in this thread...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613986
Click to expand...


Rick, that is an awesome video and thanks for the time you spent making it and the ingenuity in figuring out to get that damn bic to light when wet! You've got a future in Hollywood.

One of the comments in that thread made me wonder if perhaps some may not be thinking things all the way through. The comment about 'just trying something and saying it didn't work' may or may not have been directed at my testing, but either way it misses the point entirely.

Your life can depend on your ability to make a fire. My testing was about finding out, for me, in a given situation, what worked best. My test said a Bic was not the answer for me, and it wasn't just about saying, 'I tried it and it didn't work', it was about saying, I tried this in sub-freezing, windy, wet, and injured conditions and it was not good enough for me to bet my life on.

In one post in Ricks video thread you see a warning about messing up the flint if you attempt to dry the wheel the wrong way. What else..... Did I remember to take off the guard or did I just chuck this unaltered Bic in my pocket? Do I have my needle nose pliers with me if I didn't? Do I have the use of both hands to take off the guard? Is there any part of me dry enough to get the wheel dry? Are my hands so numb that I can work the wheel at all? Did a drop of rain hit it just as I tried to strike it? Did the wind blow it out? Those are just too many places Murphy's Law can strike for me to rely on it, when I can just as easily carry a much more reliable ferro rod and steel... much more unaffected by wind, rain, injury, and cold hands.

I understand that survival is about what is upstairs, not necessarily the equipment you have, and if all I have is a Bic, then Rick's tip has just made it more likely I will survive, and I will live or die trying.

For me the point of the exercise was not to determine solely if something will work, but what combination of knowledge and equipment make it most likely that I will survive? Everyone makes their own decisions, and I've made mine about what will be in my firestarting kit for when the chips are down.
 
mapper66 said:
One of the comments in that thread made me wonder if perhaps some may not be thinking things all the way through. The comment about 'just trying something and saying it didn't work' may or may not have been directed at my testing, but either way it misses the point entirely.
Click to expand...

Hey Mapper ... I actually made that comment and by no means was that directed at you or your testing. I thoroughly appreciated the time and effort you put into your review and truly hope you have others in the works. Many have commented about how useless / unreliable a wet bic is and I thought it was great that Rick was able to show us a good workaround is all.

:Rich:
 
KuRUpTD said:
Hey Mapper ... I actually made that comment and by no means was that directed at you or your testing. I thoroughly appreciated the time and effort you put into your review and truly hope you have others in the works. Many have commented about how useless / unreliable a wet bic is and I thought it was great that Rick was able to show us a good workaround is all.

:Rich:
Click to expand...

Sorry man, it did let me get up on my soapbox again, though. :D :foot: Not sure why I have my panties in such a wad about the whole Bic thing, other than like I said earlier, I was relying on one when I knew better and shouldn't have. When I backpack, I don't just carry a Bic, and I shouldn't at other times as well! And also, if things go according to plan, I'm planning on a solo wilderness trip in Montana this year. It makes it all just a little more than academic, you know?
 
Cool stuff mapper!

Blast Match - The Blast Match proved difficult, but not impossible, to open one-handed. When I got it open, I was able to spark it (less sparks than the FR/S combo). But with my cold hand, it was difficult to keep the steel pressed against the ferro rod.
Click to expand...

I do have to question that though. I use a blastmatch myself and I find that other than the size and weight, its probably my favorite one handed firestarting tool.

When you're opening it, are you trying to pull that tab out? If you just press against the lid away from the striker tab, the lid pops right off.

Also with the sparking, are you trying to press down with it perpendicular to the ground? Try angling it 45 degrees to the ground and press down. You'll find that you don't even have to press the striker tab to get a shower of sparks. Granted pressing the tab in conjunction with pushing the ferro rod into the striker will get you a massive amount of sparks, just pressing the rod against the striker will get more than enough to start good tinder.

I don't know. At least thats how I use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qethVtHw8d0
 
Last edited:
mapper6,

Thank you for your tests, and sharing the results.

I have done my own similar tests. You can read them, here:

http://www.swampratknifeworks.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000287#000000

http://www.swampratknifeworks.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001649#000004

You can read a summary and review of my tests and my thoughts about means of ignition, and tinders, here:

http://www.mikespinak.com/articles/Essays/e996thepsk.html#firestarters

and here

http://www.mikespinak.com/articles/Essays/e996thepsk.html#firststagetinders

I achieved a lot of similar results, and I'm mostly in agreement. In particular, I found wetfire to be sub-par, despite the acclaim it receives. (By the way, my understanding is that its main asset is that it is odorless, smokeless, "residue free", etc., for tactical uses. These characteristics are worthless for emergency wilderness survival. Also, it is not accurate that it burns better wet – it merely burns slower when wet, thereby lasting longer, and does so because it is not burning as intensely. The total heat output is the same, but over a longer period, therefore less efficient.)

My results with tinder-quik (the stuff that comes with Sparklites) were very different than yours. Am I understanding you correctly that you did not prepare the tinder, did not tear it open and fluff it up? If so, that may account for our different results. Honestly, I think this kind of prep is not out of the question under speedy, hypothermic, wet, windy, one-handed conditions. I can snag a piece of tinder-quik on a stick or rock or part of my pack or some such, and sufficiently tear it open and fluff it up, with one hand, in probably under ten seconds.

I'm not sure how similar the maya dust you tested is to fatwood shavings I get by shaving a stick of fatwood on the spot; your results are very different than my fatwood results. I found fatwood to work fairly well under such conditions – indeed, I consider it to be the overall best tinder, natural or man-made, when all the relevant characteristics are factored. It could also be easily and quickly prepared from a stick into shavings with one hand (in the same way you light the ferro rod with one hand), in just a few seconds.

I do choose to carry a butane torch (not a Bic). I recognize that it is an unreliable firestarter, in difficult conditions. However, I carry it because, when conditions allow it to work, it is fast, and the flames are both hot and long lasting. I look at all the sources of ignition as individual components in an overall strategy, involving redundancy with variation, to cover different kinds of circumstances where they each work best.

If I may criticize your approach a little:

In my opinion, there are many other equally important characteristics which need to be considered, when choosing the best fire starting devices, or the best tinders. For example, durability: is the fire paste tube subject to puncture or similar damage? [Yes] And, if so, will it be damaged by prolonged exposure to air? [Yes]

In my opinion, the risk of loss/damage to the fire paste is a significant overall factor, when determining fire paste's reliabilty as a tinder. I still think fire paste is great stuff (I used to carry and use it a lot).

I hope this doesn't come across as too harsh of a critique, because yor tests were very good, and useful. My minor criticisms do not mean that I don't appreciate the value of your efforts.

Thanks, again.
 
Last edited:
ziptrickhead said:
When you're opening it, are you trying to pull that tab out? If you just press against the lid away from the striker tab, the lid pops right off.

Also with the sparking, are you trying to press down with it perpendicular to the ground? Try angling it 45 degrees to the ground and press down. You'll find that you don't even have to press the striker tab to get a shower of sparks. Granted pressing the tab in conjunction with pushing the ferro rod into the striker will get you a massive amount of sparks, just pressing the rod against the striker will get more than enough to start good tinder.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on opening, that seems to work better. About the sparking, I had no problems getting sparks on the wind test. When wet, it is much less effective, to the point of no sparks. It is easier to dry off than say a Bic, however.

Evolute said:
mapper6,

My results with tinder-quik (the stuff that comes with Sparklites) were very different than yours. Am I understanding you correctly that you did not prepare the tinder, did not tear it open and fluff it up? If so, that may account for our different results. Honestly, I think this kind of prep is not out of the question under speedy, hypothermic, wet, windy, one-handed conditions. I can snag a piece of tinder-quik on a stick or rock or part of my pack or some such, and sufficiently tear it open and fluff it up, with one hand, in probably under ten seconds.

I'm not sure how similar the maya dust you tested is to fatwood shavings I get by shaving a stick of fatwood on the spot; your results are very different than my fatwood results. I found fatwood to work fairly well under such conditions – indeed, I consider it to be the overall best tinder, natural or man-made, when all the relevant characteristics are factored. It could also be easily and quickly prepared from a stick into shavings with one hand (in the same way you light the ferro rod with one hand), in just a few seconds.

If I may criticize your approach a little:

In my opinion, there are many other equally important characteristics which need to be considered, when choosing the best fire starting devices, or the best tinders. For example, durability: is the fire paste tube subject to puncture or similar damage? [Yes] And, if so, will it be damaged by prolonged exposure to air? [Yes]

In my opinion, the risk of loss/damage to the fire paste is a significant overall factor, when determining fire paste's reliabilty as a tinder. I still think fire paste is great stuff (I used to carry and use it a lot).
Click to expand...

Good stuff Mike! I'm going to spend some more time on that page and read your testing more closely.

The tinder quik actually worked fairly well for me on the wind test, as I indicated I was able to ignite it on the 2nd pull of the FR/S and it kept burning when exposed to the force of the fan. I prepared it by ripping it open with my teeth and fluffing it as best I could.... It could have been better. I wonder if mashing it up with a rock would be even better? They even ignited when wet, but went out quickly when exposed to the fan. I think that, much like PJCB, they will just absorb too much water when wet.

The Maya dust was completely not representative of what fatwood is capable of. The fatwood I have used has burned easily and intensely, the Maya Dust, not at all. I didn't have any good fatwood laying around, I need to get some more.

I agree completely about the fire paste. It was my assumption that it would not work as well after prolonged exposure to air, and I don't like the tube method of carry either. I'm still on the hunt for a good way to carry it. In an emergency, I want some of that stuff.

Thanks for the response Mike!
 
Based on my own past experieces and advice from those who's opinions I respect, my fire lighting system consists of (4) levels... You will never see me step into deep wilderness without all (4) levels accounted for......

1. Everyday (Kept in my pockets) - Firesteel, Bic, jute cord as tider.

2. Traditional or Cerimonial (in a Firepouch that never leaves my belt) - Traditional flint and steel, char, jute and tinder fungus... kept inside a tobacco tin with a burning lens in the lid.

3. Emergency (kept in a small Neckpouch) - Ferro rod, magstick, fatwood.

4. Last resort "Hail Mary" (taped to the back of my calf with "Elastoplast" tape) small 1/8" dia ferro and drill bit.
 
The upper back of my calf on the skin... I can't tell it's even there, seriously... I know someone who tapes it to the inside of their arm.

Yes, the drill bit is the scraper.

:thumbup:
 
Mapper-Thank you for a great post and info. I use the fire paste camping and in the fire place. Squirt a little on a log-light the fire paste-turn the log so that the paste is on the bottom. I use a blast match and find it good for one handed use.
 
Great thread. I think it's easy to get so in to the whole "mountain man" thing that we start overlooking manufactured solutions, but sometimes inventions are actually the product of a useful and practical innovation.

And if I should ever be freezing and desperate, I don't want to be screwing around with authentic 1800s gear. I want to be getting warm, pronto.

Better get some fire paste I guess!
 
misanthropist said:
Great thread. I think it's easy to get so in to the whole "mountain man" thing that we start overlooking manufactured solutions, but sometimes inventions are actually the product of a useful and practical innovation.

And if I should ever be freezing and desperate, I don't want to be screwing around with authentic 1800s gear. I want to be getting warm, pronto.

Better get some fire paste I guess!
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I might play with traditional flint and steel in the back yard, but wouldn't think of carrying it into the woods. The thing is, if someone can start a fire with a bow drill, they should have no problems with a ferro rod, matches or lighter.
 
Exactly. Traditional firestarting methods are good to learn and keep in mind, but I think there are much better modern ways of doing things when the chips are on the table.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top