Very Excited About San Antonio 2012

I would assume your talking about Arkansas, though AK stands for Alaska.

Our show has always been in January, except the past two years. It's not about, shafting friends, or however you characterize it. It's just the unfortunate reality of planning knife shows.
 
joshsmith said:
I would assume your talking about Arkansas, though AK stands for Alaska.

Our show has always been in January, except the past two years. It's not about, shafting friends, or however you characterize it. It's just the unfortunate reality of planning knife shows.
Click to expand...

Plus one, Josh :thumbup:.............and

Brownshoe, how many AK, AR, or other ABS shows have you attended and supported this year? Or do you support them also "with your mind"?

Paul
 
By promoting the ABS, they are enhancing the value of their own work by increasing the validity of their smith ratings. It also doesn't hurt to hobnob and let people see you and your knives.

Self-promotion and collector awareness is the difference between the $3,000 Fisk or Hancock basic Bowie and the $800-$1,000, equally well-made, basic Bowie by less known makers.

There is no way 90% of smiths will be "hurt" by attending the show. As for the Fisks, Hancocks, Dunns, et al., yes, perhaps it can be extremely inconvenient for them. But they are also people who seem to like to give a little back, and take some pride in the work they did to get where they are, and want to see it not only continue, but continue to grow.

I just don't understand the view that this show will "shaft" ABS members.
 
Mr. Long, I wouldn't go to an ABS show unless it was local to me. I like more variety for a show I am going to travel to. I been to the Arkansas show enough to see how its grown. Sorry I didn't realize the ABS show is moving back to its original time period. Maybe the different time for the ABS show is why the Arkansas show was getting bigger.



In addition Mr. Long, my moniker was paid for by another. It is my "Scarlet A" for having crossed the social powers on this forum about 2-3 years ago. I questioned the "justice" and you can no longer buy a moniker for someone else, however mine was left as it is by the powers that be, so I keep it as told.
 
I've certainly done anything and everything I can to help the ABS and it's members when asked. Often at no cost to the ABS.

Sure would be nice if the duties of a photographer were rotated yearly at the ABS Shows as a show of gratitude.

Just sayin'.... ;)

Coop
 
BowieBooster said:
By promoting the ABS, they are enhancing the value of their own work by increasing the validity of their smith ratings. It also doesn't hurt to hobnob and let people see you and your knives.

Self-promotion and collector awareness is the difference between the $3,000 Fisk or Hancock basic Bowie and the $800-$1,000, equally well-made, basic Bowie by less known makers.

There is no way 90% of smiths will be "hurt" by attending the show. As for the Fisks, Hancocks, Dunns, et al., yes, perhaps it can be extremely inconvenient for them. But they are also people who seem to like to give a little back, and take some pride in the work they did to get where they are, and want to see it not only continue, but continue to grow.

I just don't understand the view that this show will "shaft" ABS members.
Click to expand...

Though maker's "name" and awareness of such certainly plays a sinificant part in what some knifemakers are able to get for their knives, I would be very interested in seeing your list of makers who you feel make an "equally well-made" basic bowie as Jerry Fisk and Tim Hancock yet sell them for $800-$1000.

I'm always eager to learn. In order not to derail Josh's thread please PM or
e-mail me with your list. kj1056@aol.com
 
I've attended all but one ABS Expo and have found in both Reno and now San Antonio two things:

First, it's a show where ABS knifemakers work very hard to bring their finest knives which best represent and celebrate the forged blade.

And two, it's a show where the average collector can leisurely walk through the doors and purchase the best knives from some of the most talented and well know knifemakers in the world. (no having to wait in line for hours before the doors open, no having to RUN through the doors to be first at a maker's table.)

I hope moving the show back to January will bring out more collectors/buyers as in my opinion this is a very important event for both the ABS and the custom knife community.

Not sure of the reasoning behind increasing it to three days?
 
SharpByCoop said:
I've certainly done anything and everything I can to help the ABS and it's members when asked. Often at no cost to the ABS.

Sure would be nice if the duties of a photographer were rotated yearly at the ABS Shows as a show of gratitude.

Just sayin'.... ;)

Coop
Click to expand...

+1 :thumbup:

Paul
 
Kevin Jones said:
Though maker's "name" and awareness of such certainly plays a sinificant part in what some knifemakers are able to get for their knives, I would be very interested in seeing your list of makers who you feel make an "equally well-made" basic bowie as Jerry Fisk and Tim Hancock yet sell them for $800-$1000.

I'm always eager to learn. In order not to derail Josh's thread please PM or
e-mail me with your list. kj1056@aol.com
Click to expand...

You know, that's not really fair. I'm not knocking Jerry Fisk -- he's a very nice man who makes one hell of a knife. We all know what the market has done as far as names and demand and prices, and most of it (I believe, anyway) has to do with the secondary market for big name makers. I've owned a few nice damascus Bowie fighters of his in my time. I'm glad that he enjoys the success that he has, and he thoroughly deserves it.

To me, a basic Bowie means a good blade, a guard, an uncomplicated design and near perfect fit and finish. Many makers provide that at a thousand or less, and you can pick them up on the secondary market for signficantly less when some poor soul needs money so badly he has to sell a cherished friend. Here's one example:

http://www.rehobothcustomknives.com/KJRC001.htm

That one even has a good amount of filework, perhaps a bit of embellishment above what one might consider to be a "basic Bowie." There are plenty more, and we all know who they are.

How many times have you seen an unembellished, plain carbon steel Fisk 4" hunter with a wood handle go for upwards of a thousand dollars? Just do a search of past auctions and web dealers' archives, and you'll find plenty of examples of this. People want to own a Fisk, and they're willing to overpay for the privilege.

Now, when we get BEYOND "basic," few if any can even come close to matching Fisk and Hancock's work. They are to knifemaking what Michelangelo was to painting and sculpting. But that wasn't my point. My point was the going price for a "basic" blade, not a masterpiece.
 
Last edited:
The response to the show expansion has been fantastic. Here is a list of makers that have signed up in the past few days. Of course this is in addition to the great list of makers we had this year.

First Name Last Name Rating
JD Smith MS
Owen Wood AP
Rick Eaton AP
Don Fogg MS
Bill Buxton MS
Bruce Bump MS
Bruce Bingenheimer JS
Randy Nielsen AP
David Jackson JS
Mike Quesenberry JS
Rik Palm JS
Dan Cassidy JS
Mike Vagnino MS
Kevin Harvey MS
Heather Harvey MS
Paul Piccola AP
 
Thats amazing. It has to be partly due to the cooler weather because several of these names were onboard when the expo was in Reno. They're back, me included.
 
BowieBooster said:
You know, that's not really fair. I'm not knocking Jerry Fisk -- he's a very nice man who makes one hell of a knife. We all know what the market has done as far as names and demand and prices, and most of it (I believe, anyway) has to do with the secondary market for big name makers. I've owned a few nice damascus Bowie fighters of his in my time. I'm glad that he enjoys the success that he has, and he thoroughly deserves it.

I don’t believe unfair at all, because I'm really interested in your list, however not a subject I want to discuss on a public forum.
And would even be more interested in inspecting specific knives you feel are equal to Jerry's and Tim's bowies at $800-$1000. Thought it may be a good off-line discussion we could both benefit and learn from.

And as I said earlier, a maker's good name and collector awareness (which he works as hard to earn as he does to get to the point where he's making near perfect knives) is part of it but certainly not all that allows him to consistently get the big bucks for his knives. In most cases, a maker's good name and collector awareness/support will only survive as long as the maker continues to do exceptional work.

To me, a basic Bowie means a good blade, a guard, an uncomplicated design and near perfect fit and finish. Many makers provide that at a thousand or less, and you can pick them up on the secondary market for signficantly less when some poor soul needs money so badly he has to sell a cherished friend. Here's one example:

IMO, the basic bowie also needs to be ergonomically correct. Some makers struggle in this area, especially in their handle designs.
I agree, many makers create a very nice basic bowie as you describe above for a $1000 or less, however those who equal Tim's and Jerry's is certainly the exception and not the rule.

http://www.rehobothcustomknives.com/KJRC001.htm

That one even has a good amount of filework, perhaps a bit of embellishment above what one might consider to be a "basic Bowie." There are plenty more, and we all know who they are.

How many times have you seen an unembellished, plain carbon steel Fisk 4" hunter with a wood handle go for upwards of a thousand dollars? Just do a search of past auctions and web dealers' archives, and you'll find plenty of examples of this. People want to own a Fisk, and they're willing to overpay for the privilege.

Actually, Jerry's basic Sendero Hunter typically brings over a thousand (more like $1100-$1200), but it's not necessarily Jerry's name you are paying for but the fact that he has perfected his Sendero Hunter over 17 years and it's one of the most recognizable, most copied and ergonomically correct hunter/utility designs in existence.
I believe you are approaching a slippery slope when stating people are willing to overpay for Fisk knives. The market determines what people pay for Fisk and Hancock knives. I have purchased and sold quite a few Fisk and Hancocks and have profited on every one sold and know of others who have done the same. So I would say we have "under paid" for the privilege. ;)

Now, when we get BEYOND "basic," few if any can even come close to matching Fisk and Hancock's work. They are to knifemaking what Michelangelo was to painting and sculpting. But that wasn't my point. My point was the going price for a "basic" blade, not a masterpiece.
Click to expand...
****************
 
joshsmith said:
The response to the show expansion has been fantastic. Here is a list of makers that have signed up in the past few days. Of course this is in addition to the great list of makers we had this year.

First Name Last Name Rating
JD Smith MS
Owen Wood AP
Rick Eaton AP
Don Fogg MS
Bill Buxton MS
Bruce Bump MS
Bruce Bingenheimer JS
Randy Nielsen AP
David Jackson JS
Mike Quesenberry JS
Rik Palm JS
Dan Cassidy JS
Mike Vagnino MS
Kevin Harvey MS
Heather Harvey MS
Paul Piccola AP
Click to expand...

Josh, that is very positive start though the next Expo is a long way off.
A good step towards getting more collectors/buyer there.
 
Last edited:
Hey Kevin:

A good step towards getting more collectors/buyer there.
Click to expand...

If you are going to use common sense you will be asked to stop posting in this thread. :D

The number one complaint I heard about the show was not the heat...the time of year....the other shows before and after (I think going back to the ECCKS is stretching it a little)...it was a common complaint...few "buyers" through the door.

When the big name guys are taking knives home...that is not a good thing.

As Brownshoe pointed out being only 3 weeks apart will cause some "cannibalization" of both shows. Yes, the show was in January before...but it was in Nevada...which unlike Texas...does not border Arkansas.

So 100+ tables may be a little optimistic.

Then again, the ECCKS show is only 4 weeks after the Expo.

The Expo will be the same weekend as the Las Vegas Classic. Less than a week before the Tactical Knife Invitational and the SHOT Show.

It's always something isn't it.

Kevin hit the nail on the head. Whatever effort you are putting into recruiting makers...multiply that by 10 and go after customers.

This far out there are numerous avenues to market the show. No I am not talking about the ABS Website, Ads in magazine and Josh's posts here. You have to think outside the box...

Look at the other shows and see what other avenues they employ to make the show special to those who actually buy the knives.

Knife makers are only half the equation.

What else can be done to bring customers to the Expo....anybody...anybody...Bueller?
 
I have talked on a couple of occasions with an ABS smith who was quite displeased when the Expo moved away from Reno. His reason was that the old show had a built in customer base, at least for him, right next door at the SCI show. He had been courting those folks with all of that disposable income for a while through his previous involvement in the custom firearms business and had developed a bit of a customer base amongst the SCI membership. To me, that qualifies as a little bit of thinking outside the box like Les was talking about. I'm not sure that the ABS can do a whole lot about the timing issue because there don't seem to be any wide open spots in the show calendar anymore. The one advantage that San Antonio in january has over Reno may be the cost of getting and staying there. I was somewhat surprised at the cost of airfare to get from my part of the world to Reno the last year they had the show there. The really seem to jack the prices up during the ski season.
 
I'm open to suggetions Les. Feel free to tell us. Our advertising budget has increased and we're willing to listen. What do you suggest?

In regards to timing you just can't win any time. It's just how scheduling a show works. I like the timing as do many exhibitors I've talked to. I think our show is unique and going to be packed with great makers. I like our chances!
 
Reno does not work. We knew when we moved it that the SCI show was leaving Reno. In fact in Jan. of 2012 the SCI show goes to Vegas. Then alternates each year from Reno to Vegas. There was no way we could bounce with them. We are not big enough for that. Hotels want commitments, knife customers would be frustrated with not knowing year to year where it is at, and so on. We felt our organization was strong enough to have a show and stand on our own. I think we are moving in the right direction. Granted the last two years were not stellar. However we have improved. This year our gate was double last. Now we are moving to Jan. Tables are selling fast. The ABS testing is now at our show. And the last two years the economy sucked. We survived, learned a lot, and will be stronger for it. Our members have hung in, been positive, and can see we are working in the right direction. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day.
 
Hi Josh,

What I have learned from shows run by knife makers is that if the board doesn't come up with the idea...it will not get implemented...no matter how good it is.

Next, the ABS is notorious for wanting people to volunteer (I direct your attention to the 3 year website development project).

While my ideas wouldn't take big time commitment...it would take a commitment over the course of the next 16 months. Asking a maker to take time away from their knife making just isn't going to happen.

I'm not trying to be coy or evasive as to what my ideas are...but they will cost money...to both the ABS and the table holders. Also it will require a commitment of time and information again from both the ABS and the table holders.

Ultimately you will have market saturation for the Expo that few shows have ever had.

Talk it over with the board and membership. If they are willing to spend the money and time it will take, get back to me. As for money, I'm not talking tens of thousands of dollars...but it will be $5,000 +/- a $1,000.

Last suggestion...if dealers could have a table at the show...more would show up. I can think of two right off the top of my head...and between them they buy a lot of forged blades. Set it up like the Guild, they can only sell knives from makers in good standing with the ABS.
 
Hi Joe,

I agree with your assessment of the air fare going to San Antonio in January.

Unless there is some freak snow storm (we got 8" in 6 hours this past January here in Evans GA...all gone by noon the next day). The weather should not be an issue.

People seem to focus on the very best or the very worst of the situation.

When I did the Las Vegas Classic shows in the mid to late 90's the Safari Club Intl. Show was in town at the same time. On occasion the SHOT Show was in town as well.

While there were a few makers who did well with the SCI people....most did not. So people hearing what they want...heard about the big sales by very few makers...and ignored the majority of makers who actually set up at the SCI...complaining about how many of the members laughed at the price of their knives...after just paying $20,000 for a hunt to Africa. They couldn't believe that people would pay that kind of money for a knife.

There is a common misconception that gun people are also knife people. While there is a certain percentage that intersect and buy both. The reality is that if a gun guy has $1,000 they generally will spend that money on a gun. They are more likely going to buy a factory knife. Pick up the gun magazines and check out what the majority of knives featured in photos with the guns.

Next year the Blade Show..in addition to everything being sold in the room. Is going to sponsor a "Gear Show" right next door (Your Blade Show pass will get you into that show for free). Is this going to take money out of the Blade Show...yes it is. Are table holders at the Blade Show going to bitch...yes they are.

Those people that show up for the gear show...how many of them are going into the Blade Show and buy a $400 custom knife...probably none. I suspect the majority of the factory knife booth holders at the Blade Show will have a booth in the Gear show.

My point is that the Expo (or any show for that matter) should try and stand on it's own. Giving collectors an additional reason to attend the show...is potentially taking money out of the room as you are providing them "options" as to where to spend their money.

Think of it like a casino. Once you are in there...you can't tell if it is day or night. What time it is (there are no clocks in a casino). The fire exits by law have to be lit up...but other than that there are very few signs on how to get out. They work hard to keep you in there and want to keep you there.

Yes there are shows they promote...but it is a show at the hotel where the casino is located. Same for the restaurants.

Give collectors a reason(s) to come to the show...and stay at the show.

Josh wrote:

The Expo will also go to a 3 day format instead of two. With the number of tables and collectors expected this will give everyone time to see each other.
Click to expand...


With the number of tables and collectors expected this will give everyone time to see each other.
Click to expand...

Im not talking bad about the Expo...but from what I understand there was plenty of time for everyone to see other on Saturday.

I like the idea of testing at the Expo...given the amount of JS and AS makers this is an excellent idea.

In lieu of a meet and great between 10 - 2 on Sunday give the collectors a reason to be there. The Guild has/had an excellent way of doing this.

If a maker has to be to work on Monday...they will be long gone before 2PM (based on 25 years of attending shows)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top