Very Excited About San Antonio 2012

Les Robertson said:
Hi Joe,

I agree with your assessment of the air fare going to San Antonio in January.

Unless there is some freak snow storm (we got 8" in 6 hours this past January here in Evans GA...all gone by noon the next day). The weather should not be an issue.

People seem to focus on the very best or the very worst of the situation.

When I did the Las Vegas Classic shows in the mid to late 90's the Safari Club Intl. Show was in town at the same time. On occasion the SHOT Show was in town as well.

While there were a few makers who did well with the SCI people....most did not. So people hearing what they want...heard about the big sales by very few makers...and ignored the majority of makers who actually set up at the SCI...complaining about how many of the members laughed at the price of their knives...after just paying $20,000 for a hunt to Africa. They couldn't believe that people would pay that kind of money for a knife.

There is a common misconception that gun people are also knife people. While there is a certain percentage that intersect and buy both. The reality is that if a gun guy has $1,000 they generally will spend that money on a gun. They are more likely going to buy a factory knife. Pick up the gun magazines and check out what the majority of knives featured in photos with the guns.

Next year the Blade Show..in addition to everything being sold in the room. Is going to sponsor a "Gear Show" right next door (Your Blade Show pass will get you into that show for free). Is this going to take money out of the Blade Show...yes it is. Are table holders at the Blade Show going to bitch...yes they are.

Those people that show up for the gear show...how many of them are going into the Blade Show and buy a $400 custom knife...probably none. I suspect the majority of the factory knife booth holders at the Blade Show will have a booth in the Gear show.

My point is that the Expo (or any show for that matter) should try and stand on it's own. Giving collectors an additional reason to attend the show...is potentially taking money out of the room as you are providing them "options" as to where to spend their money.

Think of it like a casino. Once you are in there...you can't tell if it is day or night. What time it is (there are no clocks in a casino). The fire exits by law have to be lit up...but other than that there are very few signs on how to get out. They work hard to keep you in there and want to keep you there.

Yes there are shows they promote...but it is a show at the hotel where the casino is located. Same for the restaurants.

Give collectors a reason(s) to come to the show...and stay at the show.

Josh wrote:






Im not talking bad about the Expo...but from what I understand there was plenty of time for everyone to see other on Saturday.

I like the idea of testing at the Expo...given the amount of JS and AS makers this is an excellent idea.

In lieu of a meet and great between 10 - 2 on Sunday give the collectors a reason to be there. The Guild has/had an excellent way of doing this.

If a maker has to be to work on Monday...they will be long gone before 2PM (based on 25 years of attending shows)
Click to expand...
l was just citing that one maker as an example. We have all run across situations where people will pay a LOT of money (6 figures in the case of some folks from SCI) for a single firearm and yet they will turn around and buy a bargain basement knife. You should see the knives in the display case at the Purdey shop in London. Boker damascus pieces with a Purdey stamp and a 300% markup. And yet customers pay almost as much for a pair of socks in that store. LOL
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Josh,

What I have learned from shows run by knife makers is that if the board doesn't come up with the idea...it will not get implemented...no matter how good it is.

Next, the ABS is notorious for wanting people to volunteer (I direct your attention to the 3 year website development project).

While my ideas wouldn't take big time commitment...it would take a commitment over the course of the next 16 months. Asking a maker to take time away from their knife making just isn't going to happen.

I'm not trying to be coy or evasive as to what my ideas are...but they will cost money...to both the ABS and the table holders. Also it will require a commitment of time and information again from both the ABS and the table holders.

Ultimately you will have market saturation for the Expo that few shows have ever had.

Talk it over with the board and membership. If they are willing to spend the money and time it will take, get back to me. As for money, I'm not talking tens of thousands of dollars...but it will be $5,000 +/- a $1,000.

Last suggestion...if dealers could have a table at the show...more would show up. I can think of two right off the top of my head...and between them they buy a lot of forged blades. Set it up like the Guild, they can only sell knives from makers in good standing with the ABS.
Click to expand...

Les,

Actually lately we have been able to get what we want from the board such as, the table increase, the testing moved, and the date in January.

I think our website it pretty darn nice. Sure it took a while, but I think it turned out well.

If you would like to be the promoter for our show then come to our board with your proposal. Show us what you can do. How many more buyers are you going to get? What is your strategy? How much is it going to cost? Are you willing to be paid based on performance? What track record of successful shows do you have? Why are you not currently a show promoter? These are all questions their going to have and more. If you can answer those, your business plan is solid, and the bottom line balances then you'll get the job.

I'm a committee member. Not a board member. I'm doing my best to promote our show. If you have the answers then take them to the higher powers.
 
Les Robertson said:
Hi Joe,

I agree with your assessment of the air fare going to San Antonio in January.

Unless there is some freak snow storm (we got 8" in 6 hours this past January here in Evans GA...all gone by noon the next day). The weather should not be an issue.

People seem to focus on the very best or the very worst of the situation.

When I did the Las Vegas Classic shows in the mid to late 90's the Safari Club Intl. Show was in town at the same time. On occasion the SHOT Show was in town as well.

While there were a few makers who did well with the SCI people....most did not. So people hearing what they want...heard about the big sales by very few makers...and ignored the majority of makers who actually set up at the SCI...complaining about how many of the members laughed at the price of their knives...after just paying $20,000 for a hunt to Africa. They couldn't believe that people would pay that kind of money for a knife.

There is a common misconception that gun people are also knife people. While there is a certain percentage that intersect and buy both. The reality is that if a gun guy has $1,000 they generally will spend that money on a gun. They are more likely going to buy a factory knife. Pick up the gun magazines and check out what the majority of knives featured in photos with the guns.

Next year the Blade Show..in addition to everything being sold in the room. Is going to sponsor a "Gear Show" right next door (Your Blade Show pass will get you into that show for free). Is this going to take money out of the Blade Show...yes it is. Are table holders at the Blade Show going to bitch...yes they are.

Those people that show up for the gear show...how many of them are going into the Blade Show and buy a $400 custom knife...probably none. I suspect the majority of the factory knife booth holders at the Blade Show will have a booth in the Gear show.

My point is that the Expo (or any show for that matter) should try and stand on it's own. Giving collectors an additional reason to attend the show...is potentially taking money out of the room as you are providing them "options" as to where to spend their money.

Think of it like a casino. Once you are in there...you can't tell if it is day or night. What time it is (there are no clocks in a casino). The fire exits by law have to be lit up...but other than that there are very few signs on how to get out. They work hard to keep you in there and want to keep you there.

Yes there are shows they promote...but it is a show at the hotel where the casino is located. Same for the restaurants.

Give collectors a reason(s) to come to the show...and stay at the show.


Les is right. Counting on another show in town is not a model for long term success. Like I said before, the safari club has left town. If we were still there then where would we be?


Josh wrote:






Im not talking bad about the Expo...but from what I understand there was plenty of time for everyone to see other on Saturday.

I like the idea of testing at the Expo...given the amount of JS and AS makers this is an excellent idea.

In lieu of a meet and great between 10 - 2 on Sunday give the collectors a reason to be there. The Guild has/had an excellent way of doing this.

If a maker has to be to work on Monday...they will be long gone before 2PM (based on 25 years of attending shows)
Click to expand...

Sunday is a big debate. Not all of us like it, some do. I'm well aware that the third day can be slow, at a good or bad show. We are thinking of things to make Sunday enjoyable.
 
Hi Josh,

My comment about the website was not that it is not nice...but that the ABS did not want to spend the money to hire a professional to do the job..they were looking for volunteers. Lets face it that website should have taken 6 months, tops, to redo.

You can leave the sarcasm aside about my track record as a show promoter. Im sure we do not want to poll the ABS membership about the success of (or lack there of) regarding sales for the last two ABS Shows.

Besides no matter what my track record with shows is/was...this is an Expo! You have to keep saying that...you know for tax purposes. :D

Another well known forumite was hired by another well known knife organization to run their show. He implemented different ideas and improved the show overall.

When he told me about this job I told him the show will continue to struggle, because they will implement some (and not all) of his ideas. Even though he had an exceptional track record as a show promoter.

Well you have already guessed the outcome. The organization implemented very few of his ideas, the show continued its downward spiral and of course ultimately it was his fault and he was fired.

Josh, I do not want to promote the show. I have ideas that would help the show. If I did a proposal...whether the ABS accepted it or not...I would have to be paid.for the ideas.

While you may wish to question my show track record. My track record regarding the business of custom knives is as solid as anyone's out there. After all Josh when we are talking show promotion...we are talking business.

Best of luck with the show.
 
Les,

My questions were not sarcasm. I'm sorry you don't like them but that is what you or any promoter would be asked if you were coming in looking for money to do a job. I would ask ANY perspective promoter those questions.

All that aside I'm going back to my original post which is, I am very excited about the 2012 Expo. I hope the makers know we are working hard to make it successful.
 
Based on your report, Josh, I'm excited too! The date change is key and the additional details you shared reflect, IMHO, the the ABS is stable, solid and moving forward following Bill Moran's death. The testing issue is a great example of something that on the surface seems modest and of some benefit, but over time that one change may prove important in ways that are hard to appreciate right now. To a person the board is experienced, savvy, focused and dedicated. I'm very comfortable with the ABS mission statement and the current leadership whose charge is is to further that mission.

So many of the chronic complaints I hear about the ABS have more to do with a complainer's own particular self-interest which is often not something that can be accomplished under the organization's charter or could pose a threat to its not for profit tax status etc. Simply put, the ABS will easily outlive it's current crop of critics.

Thanks again for the good news, Josh. I've put the dates in my calendar. San Antonio in January sounds wonderful. That's when Denver is usually in the grips of its annual cold snap during which we have about two weeks where the temperature hovers around 0 and the ice on the streets won't melt!. See you there!
 
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I think Les alluded to Sunday being a day for education and seminars. That would be smart.

Hey, what about a seminar on simple Knife Photography for makers and collectors? It's as important as making sheaths and having a website.

Imagine that, if it was presented by a professional.

Coop
 
SharpByCoop said:
I think Les alluded to Sunday being a day for education and seminars. That would be smart.

Hey, what about a seminar on simple Knife Photography for makers and collectors? It's as important as making sheaths and having a website.

Imagine that, if it was presented by a professional.

Coop
Click to expand...

Having attended such a seminar by such a professional, I can say without reservation that this would be a MOST worthwhile seminar for makers and collectors alike.

He closely resembled this dude:

orig.jpg


Roger
 
Josh,

Anyone in the knife business would do well to listen to Les. Personally I would pay for his business advice. I would also consider a new direction for any knife show as most of the shows around the country use the same basic strategy and most shows are showing a sales drop.

Les,

I have to disagree with your views about the lack of crossover from the Safari Club. In Reno I did well with Safari Club member sales. It grew each year for me and others at the Show. Although some makers did not realize that is where some of their sales came from. These people talk to each other and all it takes is for one to show a knife he bought and talk a little about it to generate some interest. Then the next guy needs to get one a little better. Generally the members of the Safari Club have some discretionary income.

Coop,

I would come to your class.

Daniel
 
SharpByCoop said:
I think Les alluded to Sunday being a day for education and seminars. That would be smart.

Hey, what about a seminar on simple Knife Photography for makers and collectors? It's as important as making sheaths and having a website.

Imagine that, if it was presented by a professional.

Coop
Click to expand...

Seminars are greatly needed as is one on basic knife photography, however unfortunately I'm not sure many would hang around for them.
Hope I'm wrong, but don't think so.

You may know the CKCA has been kicking around sponsoring seminars on business and marketing for knifemakers on Monday and Tuesday after Blade Show.
We feel the better businessmen and marketers knifemaker are the better for the collector and the community in general. We have discussed having knifemakers who have proved to be successful businessmen and marketers of their businesses do a teach-out on Monday, then have a national leader of business (successful retail chain CEO for example) to speak on general business and marketing on the second day.

Our fear is that we wouldn't get enough participation to make it financially feasible.
 
Bruce Bump said:
Josh,
Thanks for naming me too. Write me down if you will or let me know who has the official list. It does sound like it will indeed be one to attend for makers and collectors. Will they let me bring a Loveless lookalike?
Click to expand...

I think with the "new economy", some ABS makers might just hope the ABS would allow it's own members to show a few non-forged knives. Let's face it, in the "new economy" it's important to be able to put bread on the table - and adding something to the venue that is for member-makers only might be a wise move, and also might draw in more collectors to the show?

Just a thought.

Bob Betzner
 
Hi Josh,

I never said I wanted to promote the Expo...no thanks. My suggestions/ideas were to be implemented by the board or whoever they want to hire.

If the track record is of importance than perhaps the promoters of the last two shows should be relieved of the duties. If you are going to blame the slow show on location, weather (heat) or time of year...than whoever made those suggestions should be relieved of their duties...as they now have a proven track record.

The main problem of shows run by makers or having the majority of their input from makers is that they focus on the makers. I just gave you your first idea on how to increase the amount of collectors at the show.

Most shows across the board are seeing a decrease in attendance. There are several reasons. Show promoters can implement procedures to reduce several of these.

I know you are excited about the show. You will note that all of your early efforts are targeted at knife makers....and so it goes.
 
Hi Daniel,

Thank you for your compliment.

Yes, there are makers such as yourself who have enjoyed success with the SCI and other like minded organizations. Another such organization is the group that puts on the NC Wildlife show.

Your success at these shows is due directly to your success in the knife world. Also the fact that you have looked past the knife world and explored other avenues for sales.

Jerry Fisk is another maker who has had great success with the SCI.

While the top ten percent of makers will enjoy that cross over success. Lets face it that top 10% is going to sell out no matter where they go.

There fore the emphasis (for a show to grow in sales) has to be on the next tier of makers. I know the ABS has nothing to do with this...but suggestions, a section on the website...whatever means of communication you want. Should teach the table holders what it takes to sell knives. A table cover, 5 knives and a stack of business cards is not going to do it.

Look at the table holders who had a good show at the Expo and those who didn't. Then ask the question...why?

Then look at the show overall and the weak attendance and ask...Why?
 
RogerP said:
Having attended such a seminar by such a professional, I can say without reservation that this would be a MOST worthwhile seminar for makers and collectors alike.

He closely resembled this dude:

orig.jpg


Roger
Click to expand...

I didn't know there was an other guy with a Hill Pearce collection;)

In general I have money to go to one show outside Europe every year. For me to decide where to go to isn't an easy one. Will I go for volume (and quality) or for quality (and less volume). I went to Blade and I had a great time, but a large part of the showfloor wasn't that interesting to me. So I'm leaning towards a smaller show with high quality makers, hopefully some friends in attendance and some interesting seminars if possible. But with that as a given, what would the triggers be for me to go to: Solvang or Boston or New York or San Antonio or to a mini-show organized by a maker or ....well you get the picture. In short I'm looking for the unique selling points a show will have for me as a collector. For me that's the basis on which I will make my decisions where to go to.

Marcel
 
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