Vg 10 - Ats 55 - Ats 34

VG-10 is not the same steel as ATS-34. Even I know that.
All three of those steels, ATS-34, ATS-55 and VG-10, are different.
Spyderco makes two kinds of knives: their own designs (in-house, with "word" names like "Endura" or "Salsa") and knives designed by custom makers (these are named after the designer, like "Howard Viele" and "Jess Horn").
Spyderco's in-house designs have been moving from ATS-55 to VG-10. There is a reason for that. VG-10 cuts better than most stainless steels, holds an edge as well as ATS-34 or -55, and is much more corrosion resistant than the ATS steels (try searching this forum for Sal's old posts on their tests -- I think it's called Q-fog).
Many models are still made in AUS-8, which is also very good for most uses (not skinning bears). Actually, I always liked GIN-1, which they haven't used for years now but is in my Jot Singh Khalsa.
 
Originally posted by Sergiusz Mitin
Hi Simona!
What kind of Endura do you have? In what steel? I couldn’t consider this at your photos, maybe because I didn’t see enlarged them all...
Is it the newest one with saber ground VG-10 blade or the previous version with hollow ground ATS-55 one?

Ciao:) i have ATS 55 one...

Do you like big knives? The Endura as starting point could display that rather yes... IMO the Delica would make better choice for young lady’s gentle hand.

Yee, i like bigger knives, true,as starting point Endura and maybe i will finished with 20" machete, who know
:p :p
Click to expand...
 
Simona,
if you really like bigger knives, go to the Himalayan Imports Forum and see what they have. :)
By the way, I find that 2" blades work very well for EDC use.
 
Simona,
Ciao i have ATS 55 one...
Click to expand...
Maybe now new Delica with VG-10 saber ground blade, just for steel comparison?
Yee, i like bigger knives, true, as starting point Endura and maybe i will finished with 20" machete, who knows
Click to expand...
Good to know...
However the machete is not enlarged knife and the knife is not scaled down machete.
Going with somewhat bigger folding knives I would (and I really am) prefer SPYDERCO Military.
military_01.jpg

No suggestions here, this is just my choice, yours may be different...
 
I think blade steel performance is complex.
But if durability is same,finer microstructure of steel is better.
Because Moly of ATS-55 and VG-10 is less than ATS-34,microstructure
of these steel compared with ATS-34 is too coase.
Some people said good performance of VG-10 is occured by Cobalt additon.But few amount of cobalt is useless.Please study chemical composition of cobalt high speed steel.This steel is added about more than 4mass % of Cobalt.It is not only meaningless, but little Co addition is also a waste of resources.Newer thing is not always equal to progressing things.
 
How dose VG10 compare to ATS34 in CATRA tests? Wouldn’t the steel with the finer grain structure have the deeper initial cut depth in the CATRA tests?


-Frank
 
There are many kind of wear resistance test.
In case of same hardness and same quenching temperature,results of these steels are
same in both abresive wear (occured by harder paticle) test.In case of adhesive wear (occured by friction heat) test,ATS-34 is superior to others because of high Moly and
high heat-resistance.But in actual use of general cutlery,Temperature doesnt raise in such way.
In case of edge chipping test,ATS-34 is superior to other steels.But VG-10 is close to ATS-34.Difference of this result is seemed to be caused by difference of microstructure.
 
Hi Japansteel

I don’t want to consider ATS34 inferior, I just want to know which is better and why. You have made some fairly vague statements in favor of ATS 34, which I was hoping you could expand on, that’s all. By the way, in you opinion, why have so many knife manufacturers (including Spyderco) switched from ATS to VG10?



-Frank
 
Interesting conversation.... also keep in mind that minute differences and inconsistencies in heat-treating can/does change measurable performance as well.

Spyderco's in-house CATRA results showed ATS-34 and VG-10 performed very closely in edge retentive comparison.

Japansteel, a warm welcome to the Spyderco forum.


Joyce
 
Joyce
I think retensive comparison is not same.And also VG-10 is especially easy to break in thin edge case though regretable.
Because VG-10 has few amount of expensive Moly,carbide is easy to
become bigger and cause breakage.But in case that angle of edge is big comparablly ,it will be not serious problrem.

japansteel
 
Er, WRONG! VG-10 is tougher than ATS-34 at the same hardness and is better able to resist corrosion. That is why it was chosen. Also it has a very fine grain structure and is moderatly easier to sharpen. Edge holding is so similar to be almost impossible to declair an outright winner. Though if I had to, I would say ATS-34 is a very slightly better edge holder. This is from personal experience though somewhat limited on VG-10 as I only have one knife in this steel.

ATS-34 was developed by Hitachi as a competetor to 154CM made by Cricible (spelling?)at the time, Hitachi was able to offer a cleaner, and most importantly cheaper steel.

A few years later, 154CM was made again to a very high standard with a much lower price than before. This crossed with an apparent patriotic desire for American made steel made this the clear choice in a high grade stainless steel. Point of fact ATS-34/154CM were the top stainless steels for at least 10 years. Recent steels like VG-10 and the less than sucsessful ATS-55 were attempts to gain different slices of the same pie. Good performance at less cost. S30V is the new darling of the stainless steel and no doubt in 2-3 years will be bettered also.
 
@VG-10 has unbalanced chemical compositon for getting fine grain.
People are easy to think that improvement of old one has stopped. But
if chemical composition was dicided,improvement of making steel does not have stopped.Popularity of ATS-34 depends upon fine grain microstructre without using powder metallurgical method.So not only optimum chemical composition,but also optimum way of making steel are
needed. If you want to get only fine grain steel without cost consideration,you simply buy powder metallurgical steels.
So new one is not usually optimum one.I am waitting other concept steel which is not equivalent to ATS-34.AUS,VG,154CM etc is just a
group of ATS-34 concept,and they are not in optimum status.S30V is expected not lapsing into the same concept as ATS34.
 
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