VG10 steel?

OwenM said:
What is the average grain size in microns?
I see that statement made repeatedly, and have yet to see anything to back it up, nor have I been able to find any documentation, anywhere reflecting grain size in VG-10.
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I don't have any numbers, nor have I ever seen a steel chart of it. However, Sal has repeatedly stated that VG-10 is among the finest grained stainless steels they have been using. He has been mentioning it in the same breath as MBS-26 and AUS-8. From a different source I would be skeptical, but with Sal I am pretty sure that I can take that statement as a reference. Another indication is the way it finishes and polishes during sharpening it takes a mirror polish very easily and the achiveable sharpness is very high, as Cliff mentioned.

Duh, yes grafting, that's what I meant, not pruning. I am not exactly the gardening type as you can tell :D.
 
Redhat said:
USAFSP,

You actually used a knife to cut field phone wire? The one with steel in it?

I think I would chose the Leatherman or similar.
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Yeah I went right out and bought a Victorinox Swiss Tool at the BX that same afternoon. LOL Are you CATM? I just figured with the name Red Hat.
 
I've only had 1 knife with vg-10 and i didn't like it. it was an endura and it just didn't seem to hold an edge as long as my older endura-{either aus 8 or ats 55 i don't remember which}. from the response vg-10 must be a good steel and i just got a bad one. I'm sure if spyderco is using it then it must be a pretty good steel. later, ahgar
 
Redhat said:
Yep! But I've done a few other things too.
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LOL It's weird how we can take cues off of little things like Screen Names. Not like mine is a far reach though. LOL:p I am not CATM, but seem to keep running into you guys every 4 months or so....:)
 
ATS-55 is aJapanese steel that has a small amount of cobalt in the mix.

N690Co is an Austrian steel that also has cobalt in the mix.

sal
 
Cobalt is a common element in high speed steels, mainly used to raise hot hardness as it rasies the A3 temperature, those steels tend to have very high austenization temperatures which forces more carbides to dissolve. It is also in Busse Combat's INFI.

-Cliff
 
I have several folders in VG-10. The only knife I have, or have handled in
S30V is a Native. I prefer my Endura in VG-10 over the Native by a wide margin, though, to some extent, I suspect it's the design, and not the steel that I prefer. The VG-10 seems less inclined to chip, for some reason, which is very surprising, given S30V's reputation for toughness. Both knives are sharpened with a very thin convex edge, but the Endura seems to fair better in the edge holding dept., mainly b/c of the tiny chips that develop in the edge of the Native. Stain resistence seems about the same. The other knives I have in VG-10 are not in my EDC rotation, so I can't comment on the similarities/differences.

Given the choice between a Native in S30V and an Endura (or a Delica) in
VG-10, I'd pass on the Native every time. The Endura can be had for about the same money, and seems to perform better for me, though I doubt the steel is the difference.

Todd
 
I prefer S30V although VG10 is excellent. I have chopped, cut and hacked and never had these steels chip. I find 440C to be good steel but inferior in edge holding and the ability to take a gilt edged sharpness.
 
Sal Glesser said:
ATS-55 is aJapanese steel that has a small amount of cobalt in the mix.

N690Co is an Austrian steel that also has cobalt in the mix.

sal
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What knives being made today use these steels? I have seen very few cobalt alloy knife steels used in the manufacture of a large quantity of knives except for the VG-10 Spyderco knives.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Cobalt is a common element in high speed steels, mainly used to raise hot hardness as it rasies the A3 temperature, those steels tend to have very high austenization temperatures which forces more carbides to dissolve. It is also in Busse Combat's INFI.

-Cliff
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If VG-10 is so good why doesn't everyone use it? Does that high A3 temp relate to the "chipping" issue do you think?

I never considered Busse knives mainstream. They are a nitch market.
 
DGG said:
If VG-10 is so good why doesn't everyone use it?
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Phil Wilson noted awhile ago that it isn't easily available to custom makers.

Does that high A3 temp relate to the "chipping" issue do you think?
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Generally such steels are very brittle and yes it is directly related to that factor. In order to get high hot hardness you need a lot of alloy dissolved into the austenite and you temper very hot which induces a lot of secondary carbide precipitation which lowers impact toughness significantly. However there are few if any knives made out of such HSS steels. Cobalt is also used in steels like D5 as it gives higher resistance to galling. It also strengthens ferrite by solid solution and is used in maraging steels.

-Cliff
 
DGG said:
If VG-10 is so good why doesn't everyone use it?
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As I uderstand it, VG-10 is only available from a Japanese steel mill that doesn't export it, so it's only available to Japanese knifemakers. US knives with VG-10 blades are manufactured in Japan; for instance, Spyderco has many models made in Seki Japan under contract.
 
Todd Robbins said:
.

Given the choice between a Native in S30V and an Endura (or a Delica) in
VG-10, I'd pass on the Native every time. The Endura can be had for about the same money, and seems to perform better for me, though I doubt the steel is the difference.

Todd
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They also have the Native in VG-10. I did not know wheter to get it in VG-10 or S30V. Any suggestons
 
"If VG-10 is so good why doesn't everyone use it?"

As mentioned, VG-10 is difficult to import and small amounts are just about impossible. We've imported some but we prefer to use US steels for our US made products.

Also, It's also more expensive than most other steels by a fair amount. More expensive to purchase and more expensive to process.

We use VG-10 for our Seki made products.

We generally try to use the best local steel in the country we're working with.

For European models in the works at this time, we're using N690Co. Kind of a European version of VG-10.

Spyderco introduced VG-10 to the market in the mid 90's with the Bill Moran model. Testing our knives has influenced companies Like Al Mar and Fallkniven to use the steel.

I might add that the Kershaw "Shun" line is using VG-10 as the core material in it's very successful brand of kitchen knives. Primarily because it is the "best" performing stainless ingot steel made in Japan.

It's good stuff.

Now we're "playing" with ZDP-189 with quite a few test models in the works.

Tomorrow, who knows?

On grain size, I don't have exact numbers but it is an ingot stainless alloy so grain size will not be as fine as say, 52100, my "guess" it is similar to CPM particles.

sal
 
DGG said:
What knives being made today use these steels? I have seen very few cobalt alloy knife steels used in the manufacture of a large quantity of knives except for the VG-10 Spyderco knives.
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You are simply wrong. Again.
N690: Benchmade, Extrema Ratio.
VG10: Fallkniven, Browning, Spyderco, Seki-Cut, Al-Mar, Beretta, Kershaw.

You've been told several times, the cobalt isotope, which is normally used in bladesteels, is NOT radioactive. Pay attention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt
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Hey, nice link you got there! Maybe you shold read it. :rolleyes:

But first, start with these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_isotope
 
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