Victim or Rebel, a discussion

There is an interesting phenomenon that occurs among apes, in the rare instances that an albino is born. The mother nurses it, and the group takes care of it for a while, until its physical differences become so striking that they can't be ignored. Then they all join in and beat it to death.

Most people are just ignorant animals. A pink monkey in with the brown monkeys, who calls attention to his pinkness will be destroyed. _Anything_ out of the ordinary is to be shunned. People crow about individuality, but looks at the kids; their "unique" appearance and choices in clothing amount to a uniform, with rules as strict as if it was Army issue.

Hiring managers may talk the talk about wanting an "individual who will take charge, push back for quality, really be up front with management about what needs to be done, not be afraid to speak up", etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum, ad infinitum, but it's ALL BS. They no more want a free-thinking individual than they would want a typhoid carrier.

The irony is that several employers insisted that this was the type of individual they wanted, but when I gave them concrete examples of such behavior, and even personal references of same, they ultimately wanted nothing to do with me. Go along to get along, forget the customer, forget "quality", business as usual. As long as we all get paid, THAT's all that matters. Do NOT rock the boat.

Being in QA for the last 20 years I'm hosed. It's my job, day in and day out to report defects and show the way to process improvement and new methodologies, but no one in upper management _really_ wants to hear that. Bugs mean delay, and new processes usually mean some investment. Easier for them to make noises about QUALITY (they usually mispell it), and tell the world that "Quality is Job 1" or some similar equally meaningless slogan. I'm convinced that the interview questions and probes as posed above are simply to smoke out anyone who _might_ threaten change, and weed them out before they can get embedded in the dysfunctional organization. They want an executive politician who will put on a good show and do nothing. That reality is incredibly depressing.

So, my philosophy is to hades with the masses. Do what you like. As long as it doesn't hurt others, then go for it. It is _always_ better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission anyway.

As to makeup and high heels, I just stick to a little rouge and eye-liner, and go for some sensible pumps, and no one has ever said a thing! ;):D

Norm
 
As to makeup and high heels, I just stick to a little rouge and eye-liner, and go for some sensible pumps, and no one has ever said a thing! ;):D

Norm

Well at least not where you would/could hear it my friend.









But I'll Dayumed shore bet that a lot of folks go around talking behind yer back!
One of the biggest arguments is whether you wear a push up or an athletic tube bra. When asked I tell 'em a push up because even though yer a rather large person there's No Way you would have raise and separate with an athletic tube bra.
 
Well at least not where you would/could hear it my friend.









But I'll Dayumed shore bet that a lot of folks go around talking behind yer back!
One of the biggest arguments is whether you wear a push up or an athletic tube bra. When asked I tell 'em a push up because even though yer a rather large person there's No Way you would have raise and separate with an athletic tube bra.

Hey, now watch it there fella! You're giving away all my secrets! :D

That Victoria's Secret charge account is _strictly_ for the missus, OK? She is several sizes smaller than me, that's true, but you never know, she might put on 175 pounds in the next few months, and I like to be prepared. :rolleyes:;)

Norm
 
People in general don't know your character and work ethic, that takes time. So instead of having to meet everyone and get to know them people will judge you based on appearance and social norms. Most financially successful people wear suites and drive fancy cars.
 
FWIW, I am one of perhaps 3 guys in my company who don't wear the required by policy suit (I'm a systems engineer working in a military environment).

At home, it's swim trunks or coveralls, on the bike it's jeans and leather...at work, casual trousers and a nice comfy bowling type shirt (open collar, short sleeve and untucked).

Of course...I wore a suit for the interviews.

They'd most likely replace me with a suit if they could ...
 
My mom told me that back in the day when she was interviewing for acceptance into graduate school (1940's), she wore no makeup and did not take a shower for five days prior to the interview. They wouldn't let females into PhD programs back then if there was a significant prospect that they would get married, start raising kids, and fail to make a contribution to the school, etc. So, it was necessary for a lady to "tone herself down" a bit for appearances sake back then.

Times seem to have changed though. Most of the ladies I see these days with a non-medical "Dr." before their name look like they put in some serious mirror time before making any public appearance. Therefore, while the nature of appearance-related expediencies may vary, they will always be cause for cussin and time wastin.
 
As to makeup and high heels, I just stick to a little rouge and eye-liner, and go for some sensible pumps, and no one has ever said a thing! ;):D

Norm


Norm, you only stick to the pumps because you seriously wouldn't fit through the doors in heels...............:rolleyes: ;)
 
appear and speak to manage one's relationships with others? Greater the fools, they, to be so taken in.

QUOTE]

You touch upon an important point here. Why not look at it the other way around? People only know what they see; 'perception is reality'; by controlling people's perceptions, you can control Them, make them act as your interests dictate. Making knowledgable use of customs/stereotypes is more productive and more fun than fighting them. Think of it as 'cultural jiujitsu'.
 
(High heels? Hell no! They are inventions of misanthropes, and any doc will give you a letter saying they are ruled out on grounds of health.)

Ask any chiropractor, podiatrist, or massage therapist what they think of high heels. When your feet are regularly elevated at an unnatural angle, the entire skeletal structure -- and the muscles of the legs, back, shoulders, and neck -- all need to compensate for this lack of stability. In time, said adaptation will result in deformation. If said deformation is not corrected, it will eventually ossify, becoming permanent.

As for makeup -- most makeup (especially foundation) is incredibly bad for your skin. Get natural makeups at the health food store if you need to wear anything at all. It is unfortunate that, in our contemporary society, females who shun makeup are typically regarded as anti-establishment "pot smoking, vegan, lesbian, tree-huggers" (not that that's a bad thing). Anyhow, as long as you have healthy skin and get out in the sun every now and then, you probably don't need makeup at all. Several ladies I know actually had "eyeliner" tattooed so they never had to bother with putting it on again.
 
People only know what they see; 'perception is reality'; by controlling people's perceptions, you can control Them, make them act as your interests dictate. Making knowledgable use of customs/stereotypes is more productive and more fun than fighting them. Think of it as 'cultural jiujitsu'.
Or - alas - the cynically spin-doctoring celebrity related media manipulation that masquerades itself as modern "politics".
:barf:
 
'Cynical manipulation' is such an ugly phrase. 'Cultural jiujitsu' sounds so much nicer. :D
 
I wear shorts and a T-shirt to work every day, rain or shine (it's California, after all). The days that I get grief are the days (OK, day) when I wear long pants
posted by Aardvark


Keep in mind, Aardvark is a hottie.;)
 
The thing I have a real beef with is that every single interview site out there says that women should wear "sensible makeup" to job interviews. Not heavy makeup, not clown makeup, but certainly not no makeup, because apparently showing up barefaced == showing up in holey shorts and flip-flops.

Now, I don't totally hate on makeup. Even though I'm not a habitual user, I'm okay with wearing a little bit once in a while (esp. for stage work). So while I can and will play along if I'm interviewing for a job, I resent the idea that it's expected. I mean, I understand the idea of respecting the job by dressing well, but if I'm being hired to be competent, rather than decorative, why should I have to paint my face?

Also -- now that I've been on the other side of the interviewing table for a few years, I wonder about the validity of the "sensible makeup" advice. I've interviewed a few women for our team and have never once thought "well... she's technically savvy, but didn't bother to wear eyeliner, so I'm a no". Guys, do we really think that differently? :confused:
 
I started this thread based off of several recent incidences that have occured and the discussion of which led to the victim mentality accusation. Today at lunch I sat with a very sad young lady who thought she was useless and had no purpose in life but to make everyone else judge her. This child is not just a straight A student, but A+'s all the way down and yet because of the price of conforming to the status quo feels worthless and useless...............WOW that's heavy. Some people are very sensitive to feelings and emotions and because of the way their brains work they just don't seem to be able to seperate some of the more basics in life. Anyone got a good answer??
 
I started this thread based off of several recent incidences that have occured and the discussion of which led to the victim mentality accusation. Today at lunch I sat with a very sad young lady who thought she was useless and had no purpose in life but to make everyone else judge her. This child is not just a straight A student, but A+'s all the way down and yet because of the price of conforming to the status quo feels worthless and useless...............WOW that's heavy. Some people are very sensitive to feelings and emotions and because of the way their brains work they just don't seem to be able to seperate some of the more basics in life. Anyone got a good answer??

"I would rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not."
 
So one often hears said -- but I've long wondered why it isn't "what they actually do" rather than "work ethic" which counts. :confused:
No doubt there are lots of very dilligent secret policemen, high-pressure sales callers, corporate speculators and yardie drug-distributors in the world, whose "work ethic" as such could be beyond reproach -- but their wider ethical context within which that work-ethic exists might be a different matter entirely. :eek:

Interesting point... though in some philosopphies, the work ethic is the only ethic of importance. Doing a job to the best of your ability, no matter the job, is the important thing. This philosophy can be seen in some circles in Japan and India, for example. The idea of "it's not what you do, but how well you do it".

On to the original notion of being judged by one's appearance, I was all very concerned with being able to dress or look how I wanted as a teenager. Maybe it was more of a sore spot back then, because teenagers can be total jerks and give you a hard time if you look different, and perhaps maybe I hadn't learned there were more important matters to concer myself with.

I don't care a whole lot about my appearance anymore, since my tastes in clothing and the like have become a little more moderate, and I hardly get any kind of undue attention, which I was never very fond of, contrary to the accusations of my adolescent years.

These days I'm too busy worrying about how I'm going to spend my precious free time, and kickin' myself for not being able to muster anything more exciting than those nights of endless emails and web surfing!

Today at lunch I sat with a very sad young lady who thought she was useless and had no purpose in life but to make everyone else judge her. This child is not just a straight A student, but A+'s all the way down and yet because of the price of conforming to the status quo feels worthless and useless...............WOW that's heavy. Some people are very sensitive to feelings and emotions and because of the way their brains work they just don't seem to be able to seperate some of the more basics in life. Anyone got a good answer??

I wasn't an A+ student by the time I was ready to drop out of high school, but otherwise her story is very familiar. Mind you, I was at odds with the academic system by that stage, as well as my peers. I would have been ill-equipped to offer any consolation to someone in a similar situation at the time, though in retrospect, I'd hope people like this would find some consolation knowing that the average youth is not a good judge of anything, much less of the worth of their more intelligent specimens. Of course, intelligence is no guarantee of happiness, and in some cases, can be an impediment to it. The old saying about ignorance being bliss and all that, not far off the mark!
 
Interesting point... though in some philosopphies, the work ethic is the only ethic of importance. Doing a job to the best of your ability, no matter the job, is the important thing. This philosophy can be seen in some circles in Japan and India, for example. The idea of "it's not what you do, but how well you do it".

That's what my workplace is like. I work for Germans.

They don't care that much how you dress so long as it doesn't go too far... such as vulgar language/images on shirts, etc. ... but work performance and attendance is critical in their eyes.
 
Actually they're cool.

l've worked there for 14 years and been treated better by them than by any american company l've ever worked for.
 
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