Views on TEOTWAWKI: US vs. Canadiens (& Others)

[m]

No matter where you live it is prudent to prepare for the future whatever it may bring, but we all need to remember that no matter how much you have and no matter where you have it, and no matter how much you know, none of us survive more than a hundred or so years at best. We live so much longer on the other side of eternity than on this side of it that it is not even funny. So it is good to prepare for the immediate unknown future but it is vital to prepare for the future we all know we will have to face. Not all faith is blind. In the end it really isn't what you know, it truly is Who you know!

 

[wolfenhawk]

I think that there is a difference in perspective, but I think the causes are different.....



There's an element to this that seems to have merit- but I think it's not really true.

Granted- we are very polarized on gun rights here, but that's due in large part to the existence of a gun culture (of which I am part) - not necessarily the Second Amendment as such. Combine this with the Calvinist descent of much of our social cultures and you have a real powder keg- and a lot of inbuilt negativity.

Healthcare? Oh, man, there's so much I could say. I'm already editing myself HARD here. Socialized medicine does not require a loss of freedom. Corporate and political interests in our nation seem set on guaranteeing a loss of freedom, but it's not necessary. Not at our technological level (I'd recommend some reading on/of Fuller is the idea of economics of abundance seems absurd)



I have gone through the post to this point 5 times, removed references to all sorts of things (not Hitler, though!!!) and agree with you.....





Okay, here's my take in large part:

1: Canada has less population pressure. I'd argue that in many respects it has a less intrusive government presence. A higher percentage of the population appears to have some connection to the outdoors, self reliance, and community. I could be way off base, but this seems to be part of it.

2: the US was founded by a bunch of idealists of different stripes who came to some crazy compromises- in addition to the 'hippies' of the era like Jefferson, you had the descendants of the religious outcasts who colonized much of the US.

These weren't people who fled persecution, for the most part- they were groups that were so strident, fanatical, and overbearing in their desire to rule the morals of others that they were kicked out. We were settled, to a much larger extent than Canada, by people who wanted to legislate their version of God's Law on others.

What difference does this make? We've had a social influence to intolerance and cantankerousness since day 1.

We've also had an anti-social propaganda campaign going on for over 100 years claiming that corporations have inherent rights (?!?!) and that it's wrong to restrict the operations of people who desire to make money by nearly any means.


All this rambling comes down to- we've got a huge amount of negative attitude, pessimism, and intolerance of others running through some of the fabric of our society down here.


Add to that the issues of the Cold War- I grew up with the end of the world, with me, myself, as a dependent, being a target. That's pretty rough. It was MY nation- hell, my family members who were going to play a leading role in the destruction of the planet. Try getting a positive attitude towards EOTWAWKI with that!!!!

Now, this doesn't apply to all of us. 300 million people can't be painted with one brush. I live in a free associative household of 9 people, only 3 of which are actually related to me. I'm far from the norm. Our EOTWAWKI scenarios involve much larger movement or guardianship plans than most singles and couples in the US. It informs our attitudes, too. I don't feel I'm particularly negative about anything except government involvement (and I don't hold laws as sacred, which is a peculiar american problem)


edit: and yeah, we have well over 20,000 rounds of airgun ammo, 7500 rounds of .22, and a decent usable stockpile of our other calibers. But we also have a 6-8 month supply of food for the entire group, lots of camping gear, alternative fuel sources, and do supplement our food with real, regular, foraging. I wouldn't say the firearms are the single issue.....

that being said, we don't just have .22s, and not all of our firearms are there for any purpose other than defense. I don't see that as weird- but I've been to bosnia

Wow I have to agree with most of what you said, especially the way you see history and the groups that founded this country. I'm also slowly building up my supplies as well. I live alone with no family, so to me it sounds like a pretty cool household you are part of.

 

[KEmSAT-Survival]

We regularly have various SHTF and TEOTWAWKI scenarios and discussions on this forum (as we should). As I have read these threads over the past few years, I've come to the subjective conclusion that US residents (henceforth Americans) are more pessimistic about the future, specifically in giving greater credence to the possible breakdown of society in some fashion and often advocate more militant preparations for such a possiblity (for example, stocking up on ammo, etc.). Whereas non-Americans, and Canadiens most prominently (since they make up the majority of non-Americans on the W&SS forum), while they don't completely discount these scenarios seem generally more optimistic about the future, and even when they reckon with the possible SHTF scenarios are decidedly less militant about how to prepare for them.

So my questions for you are: Am I off base or is there a real difference of perspective? And if you agree there is a difference of perspective, to what do you attribute it?

That's just cuz they know they have Rick making knives and Les Stroud showing off his friggin' skillz.

Wouldn't you be "optimistic", too?

I can't speculate on Candians. I'm Southeastern Kentuckian, so I was born with the mentality of "There's Southeastern Kentuckians...and then there's everybody else." (we treat Western Kentuckians like Illinoisians and Northern Kentuckians like God-forsaken Buckeyes) Out here the TEOTWAWKI is just an environmental act away from occuring (all the mines shutting down).

So, technically a guy from Texas to me is "everbody else." Hell, most days, the people right down the road are "everybody else". I'm suspicious that way.

....And a guy from San Francisco is just from Seti Alpha 6.

 

[kycolonel]

We regularly have various SHTF and TEOTWAWKI scenarios and discussions on this forum (as we should). As I have read these threads over the past few years, I've come to the subjective conclusion that US residents (henceforth Americans) are more pessimistic about the future, specifically in giving greater credence to the possible breakdown of society in some fashion and often advocate more militant preparations for such a possiblity (for example, stocking up on ammo, etc.). Whereas non-Americans, and Canadiens most prominently (since they make up the majority of non-Americans on the W&SS forum), while they don't completely discount these scenarios seem generally more optimistic about the future, and even when they reckon with the possible SHTF scenarios are decidedly less militant about how to prepare for them.

So my questions for you are: Am I off base or is there a real difference of perspective? And if you agree there is a difference of perspective, to what do you attribute it?

It's possible the accentuated perspective in America is what it is, because many other countries have already been through (some several) TEOTWAWKI events in their history, and we as a country have been through, well, none really. At least none that would compare to what occurred in Europe and Asia during WW II. That wouldn't explain the differences between the U.S. and Canada. But perhaps they have more faith in humanity and/or the government than we do here. Or, maybe they're just logical about it thinking that if it happens, there isn't much they will really be able to do about it anyway, so no sense in worrying.

We as Americans are also much more centered on material goods as the fabric of our culture than other countries (holy sh_t! what will I do if my cable TV goes out?) and this will be the first big shoe to drop. Hence, the overhoarding that occurs with the slightest hint of disaster in this country. Whether we like it or not we are the worlds biggest consumer gluttons, and the shock of a disaster is magnified significantly as a result. After a windstorm last year that wasn't that bad, I watched a guy dump an entire battery display into his grocery cart. He must have spent over $1000 at the register. Why? Because they said some people in the area would be without electricity for a week. Bugger all to anyone who had no batteries for that day. Noone said a word to him (it's still a semi-free country after all.) To this end, I also think that Americans are more individualistic than other cultures, which sometimes is a benefit and some times not. We may be more inclined to expect an "everyone for themselves" reaction to disaster than other cultures. Just a thought.

 

[Davyd]

My Oz point of view is similar to the Canadian.

Most of our communities have some homgeniety and so violence is not always the first response to shortage.

If the lights go out my area are likely to co-operate and start to form a tribe. Sharing, security, looking after the weak.

That may break down if we there is a sustained shortage i.e. less food than population in an area for some time, but would rebuild when food or food distribution was re established.

So if the lights go out my first response would be to go and talk to the neightbours - not to shoot them.

I don't think individual survival is really feasible in the longer term for the reasons already stated. Everyone gets sick some times, and to get resilent and diverse food sources probably requires a division of labour and economies of scale an individual would have difficulty with and it would be hard to all this by yourself yourself or possibly even as a family unit . Besides we would get bored!

The worst case would to be get caught in one of those temperary (1 year) food shortage situations - especially with no tribe, and trying to move through other tribes areas and having to appropriate their food.

Fortunately I don't think this is likely.

 

[Bushman5]

I'm a Canuck, heres my views:

- if i had access to the kinds of firearms and ammo Americans do, HECK YA i would stock up. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of round of ammunition, plus a arsenal of firearms ranging from handguns to full auto.

- since i dont have such access to said tools, and since i am somewhat off the the grid, I CHOOSE to NOT have my name on THE LIST of people with firearms. I will leave that open to interpretation

- in a SHTF situ, i have already planned. I have 5 safehouses i can retreat to, if my own home is compromised. Failing that, its hit the vast forest like i always planned for and disapeer

if it gets really bad here - i plan to take out as many as possible with me.