Views on TEOTWAWKI: US vs. Canadiens (& Others)

[Horn Dog]

I blame the History Channel for all of this. And Fox News. And the current administration. The Nostradamus effect and all that. We are all doomed, doomed I tell you. But end of the world? We couldn't do anything about it if it did end. We all have a mortal end anyway. OMG! We are all going to die! We're doomed!

 

[SGP]

Horned Toad, I apologize, I misunderstood your point. On clarification though, I think there's another point to be made, on the differing views of survival. The American "work ethic" ideal seems to be a big factor in the way survival preparation is discussed. I can't vouch for Canadian perspectives on this, but I know that plenty of Europeans I've met have been shocked by how much blood, sweat, and tears get put into work with comparatively little reward. America's willingness to work, and work hard, is one of primary forces that has made this country a global force, and I'm not knocking it, but I believe taking a commerce styled cost-benefit analysis into a survival situation is going to make more problems than it solves.

 

[Horned Toad]

Horned Toad, I apologize, I misunderstood your point. On clarification though, I think there's another point to be made, on the differing views of survival. The American "work ethic" ideal seems to be a big factor in the way survival preparation is discussed. I can't vouch for Canadian perspectives on this, but I know that plenty of Europeans I've met have been shocked by how much blood, sweat, and tears get put into work with comparatively little reward. America's willingness to work, and work hard, is one of primary forces that has made this country a global force, and I'm not knocking it, but I believe taking a commerce styled cost-benefit analysis into a survival situation is going to make more problems than it solves.

You lost me after hard work with little reward, been there done that, didn’t like it


I am only half joking there let me go read up on “commerce styled cost-benefit analysis” and make a better reply. Off the cuff though any survival training I have every had equals hard work for little gain. Add to that I personally live in an arid environment which if you not prepared for it makes stuff more difficult.

Could you expand on this some?

but I believe taking a commerce styled cost-benefit analysis into a survival situation is going to make more problems than it solves.

thx

 

[SGP]

I mean that going along in everyday life, we function primarily as part of a competive, commercial enterprise, concerned with creating a surplus of goods or a higher quality of service which equal profit. In a disaster or survival situation, the dynamic changes from one of creation of surplus resources to a redistribution of available resources, and the competetive, productive instinct that makes for good business isn't necessarily the most applicable.
For instance, you could think of your post-disaster group as company, and run it as such, hiring, firing, and feeding individuals based on how much food they can forage, thier skill sets and training, physical ability, attitude, etc. On the other hand, you could look at it as a collective, redistributing resources as needed, without regard to the concept of who's "earned it".
I think in most emergencies, or the short term act-of-God kind at least, the shift is more or less automatic from the first type of thinking to the second, but in terms of preparation, I see a lot of emphasis on the first ideal, with talk of providing supplies for your family and making a run for it etc., and little discussion of what can an individual would be able to provide for thier community in a larger sense.

 

[SGP]

As to how that attitude could cause problems, well, they're your neighbors. The fan will get cleaned off eventually, and you'll be back to normal, and they'll remember how things went when the chips were down. Did you load up the truck with guns and MRIs and head for the hills while they were trying to find a ride over to the nursing home to make sure Grandpa had a means to keep his insulin cold?

 

[Horned Toad]

I mean that going along in everyday life, we function primarily as part of a competive, commercial enterprise, concerned with creating a surplus of goods or a higher quality of service which equal profit. In a disaster or survival situation, the dynamic changes from one of creation of surplus resources to a redistribution of available resources, and the competetive, productive instinct that makes for good business isn't necessarily the most applicable.
For instance, you could think of your post-disaster group as company, and run it as such, hiring, firing, and feeding individuals based on how much food they can forage, thier skill sets and training, physical ability, attitude, etc. On the other hand, you could look at it as a collective, redistributing resources as needed, without regard to the concept of who's "earned it".
I think in most emergencies, or the short term act-of-God kind at least, the shift is more or less automatic from the first type of thinking to the second, but in terms of preparation, I see a lot of emphasis on the first ideal, with talk of providing supplies for your family and making a run for it etc., and little discussion of what can an individual would be able to provide for thier community in a larger sense.

OK I got you on this one.

I think since people have been living as what we think of as people and not an animal, family is going to come first. I think this would be an issue once folks started to try and work as communities. An example and I can’t remember if I read it here or elsewhere but say you have a limited amount of food and a lot of people. The question was how would folks react to their share of food being base on the amount of work they did. Should a 200 pound adult male, who has done much physical labor for the group get a bigger share of food than a child that has done nothing or a female that has stayed back and watched camp.

With what as I see a shift in modern American thinking towards everyone is the same and equal instead of everyone has equal opportunity, I don’t think things would go smoothly in the above situation.

 

[Horned Toad]

As to how that attitude could cause problems, well, they're your neighbors. The fan will get cleaned off eventually, and you'll be back to normal, and they'll remember how things went when the chips were down. Did you load up the truck with guns and MRIs and head for the hills while they were trying to find a ride over to the nursing home to make sure Grandpa had a means to keep his insulin cold?

It will only be an issue with those that survive, is the hard fact. FEMA seems to think that something like 30% of the population could survival a national disaster for anywhere from 3 to 18 months. I doubt 30% of the nations diabetics have 18 months of insulin being around. This is sort of what I was thinking with the current population no longer being survival off the fittest. How many folks out there have long term heath issues that would die if it wasn’t for modern medicines? And because of modern medicine these folks have kids and these problems just spread. Say even something as simple as peanut allergies.

 

[kgd]

Should a 200 pound adult male, who has done much physical labor for the group get a bigger share of food than a child that has done nothing or a female that has stayed back and watched camp.

Might need a picture to formulate an appropriate decision. Bioenergetics is a strong selective force in your evolution of cultural equivalent to success....So is sexual selection.

 

[August West]

Might need a picture to formulate an appropriate decision. Bioenergetics is a strong selective force in your evolution of cultural equivalent to success....So is sexual selection.

Agreed, I have seen and met lots of females with particular attributes and skill sets that have no problem finding males willing to support them. Chris

 

[Horned Toad]

Might need a picture to formulate an appropriate decision. Bioenergetics is a strong selective force in your evolution of cultural equivalent to success....So is sexual selection.

Pictures would probably work for men, but I was just reading an article the other day that theorized that 30 or so year of US women being on birth control has radically changed what women perceive as attractive. Say the difference from Charlton Heston or Kirk Douglas back in the day to Johhny Dep now

 

[kgd]

Fortunately we have products chalk full of estrogen mimics to keep our genetic fitness at a level consistent with women's expectations. You think my man-breasts are some kind of random mutation? I think not....

 

[Horned Toad]

Fortunately we have products chalk full of estrogen mimics to keep our genetic fitness at a level consistent with women's expectations. You think my man-breasts are some kind of random mutation? I think not....

That would be a lot funnier if there wasn’t some truth to it:grumpy:

 

[PrimitiveMan]

Am completely proud of everyone (including myself) keeping this thread from going haywire.

We have somehow seemed to let this thing flow without going too far into political fronts or ticking off each other.

Very, VERY cool.

Especially considering it not only involves different points of view, but various countries.

Maybe there is hope, huh?

Carl-

 

[kgd]

Am completely proud of everyone (including myself) keeping this thread from going haywire.

We have somehow seemed to let this thing flow without going too far into political fronts or ticking off each other.

Very, VERY cool.

Especially considering it not only involves different points of view, but various countries.

Maybe there is hope, huh?

Carl-

Carl, whenever I get upset, I usually let everybody know about it and then stop brooding on it. I hold a grudge for about 10 minutes then its gone

Anyhow, I agree that the thread stabilized and its good to see that it did.

Humour is life's best medicine. Notice that CDN humour has an extra letter associated and this is part of why we pay higher taxes. You see there are costs to quirks. Sometimes the tradeoffs work out well, sometimes not

Ken

 

[PrimitiveMan]

We are about to get an extra "Humor tax" as part of our 20,000,000 page Socialized medical reform bill, so I completely understand what you mean!


Carl-

 

[XMP]

Am completely proud of everyone (including myself) keeping this thread from going haywire.

We have somehow seemed to let this thing flow without going too far into political fronts or ticking off each other.

Very, VERY cool.

Especially considering it not only involves different points of view, but various countries.

Maybe there is hope, huh?

Carl-

I agree. When I started the thread I was very interested to hear people's responses, but I was also concerned it could go down the tubes quickly and it hasn't. I think though that this is partly due to the conversation partners being self-selecting (we are all on BF Wilderness & Survival Skills), so to a certain extent we share some common perspective.

While it isn't true across the board, my impression is that this thread has shown there is some general difference in perspectives. The Canadians who have posted do seem to be more optimistic and more trustful of society and government at large, than do the Americans.

 

[dawsonbob]

Can you imagine how this thread would have gone in Whine & Cheese? I shudder to think.

 

[Zombie Zeke]

Just my own .02 cents here but Canada is the least of America's problems...the main threat imho is the failure of banking coupled with the housing crisis and the lurking and underreported student loan policies passed forcing a more debt heavy economy in the next ten years mix in the odd pandemic and or random act from the lord almighty and were gots ourselves a true to life One Second After scenario. America, like Rome before us, were forged from violence and will be laid down by corruption its all been written.

 

[kgd]

Just my own .02 cents here but Canada is the least of America's problems...

I didn't even know we were a tiny problem

Also, I always thought you guys down south were called the United States and "North America" encompassed the two of us as well our Mexican brethren

 

[coyotebc]

Ooops, I meant "confiscate"

Anyway,

If rulers of ANY country want to confiscate pancakes, they just make it illegal to possess them. Law abiding people then hand them over and eat waffles. People are sheep.

All they have to do is say, Anyone possessing a pancake after Jan 1 will be considered a felon and will be subject to sitting in the corner, er, I mean 6 months incarceration.

They tacked on a 5 year jail sentence for unregistered firearms, but widespread non-compliance by firearms owners led to amnesty after amnesty to try to get compliance.
Now they may scrap the program after at least 2 billion in costs