Virginia Ivory Ban Bill Defeated

[leghog]

No, you are fighting a ban on the ivory TRADE. Can't we at least be consistently clear on that?

No, not even close.

The Ivory trade only exists outside the U.S. We already live under a ban on Ivory.

Not so in the USA. Today I can sell the ivory trinkets that belonged to one of my great grandmothers and do so legally. The proposals are to ban the legality of me selling them or buying others not me owning them or passing them down the generations.

No, you are fighting a ban on the ivory TRADE. Can't we at least be consistently clear on that?

I assumed people new that, sorry

Apparently not everyone does. Clarity is key.

 

[leghog]

There was a question about which states have new ivory trade bans either in deliberation. Here are the ones we know about;

CA
CT (4 bills)
HI (2 bills)
IA
WA (2 bills)

If you live in these states you should find out about these bills, if you don't like what they say, contact your representatives. That's how this system works.

And if you do like what they say, contact your representatives.

 

[leghog]

Agreed. Not all conservationists chain themselves to trees. Or live in them. But even if they did, I look at those people with a much more enlightened eye than I once did. I'm not into such avenues of protest, but I don't condemn those who are, either.

I don't understand doing something just to piss off the sensibilities of another group of people, at least in most cases. Aside from eco-terrorists, a small fraction of the "eco" crowd, no one is deliberately attempting to tick off or make the lives of non-eco-friendly people worse just for the sake of it.

It's amazing how unclear that seems to be though.

I'm a member of the Isaak Walton League of America. Definitely a conservation organization. Definitely not tree huggers.

"Founded in 1922, the Izaak Walton League is one of the nation's oldest and most respected conservation organizations. With a powerful grassroots network of more than 240 local chapters nationwide, the League takes a common-sense approach toward protecting our country's natural heritage and improving outdoor recreation opportunities for all Americans."

"About Us


One of the earliest conservation organizations in the United States

The Izaak Walton League was formed in 1922 to save outdoor America for future generations. The League's 54 founders, who were avid anglers, named the organization after Izaak Walton, the 17th century author of The Compleat Angler, a classic book about the art and spirit of fishing. We are one of the earliest conservation organizations to set an aggressive course to defend wild America by changing public policy. Almost every major, successful conservation program that America has in place today can be traced directly to a League activity or initiative.

Community
Our work is guided entirely by grassroots volunteers. Throughout more than 240 communities, our chapters advance the mission of the Izaak Walton League – restoring watersheds, reducing air pollution, fighting litter, protecting wildlife habitat and open spaces, and instilling conservation ethics in outdoor recreationists.

Common Sense
The environment is everyone's issue. We believe that America needs smart solutions that are good for the environment and the economy at the same time. Relying on our unique blend of community-based conservation and common-sense advocacy, the League has made significant progress to protect and restore our nation's waters, promote clean energy, and advance sustainable agriculture.

Mission Statement
To conserve, restore, and promote the sustainable use and enjoyment of our natural resources, including soil, air, woods, waters, and wildlife."


Those who wish to label all conservationists as "tree huggers" only prove their ignorance of the matter.

 

[B34NS]

come and visit sanfranciscos chinatown. I'll show you what i've been talking about.

this!

 

[Mark Knapp]

I'm a member of the Isaak Walton League of America. Definitely a conservation organization. Definitely not tree huggers.

"Founded in 1922, the Izaak Walton League is one of the nation's oldest and most respected conservation organizations. With a powerful grassroots network of more than 240 local chapters nationwide, the League takes a common-sense approach toward protecting our country's natural heritage and improving outdoor recreation opportunities for all Americans."

"About Us


One of the earliest conservation organizations in the United States

The Izaak Walton League was formed in 1922 to save outdoor America for future generations. The League's 54 founders, who were avid anglers, named the organization after Izaak Walton, the 17th century author of The Compleat Angler, a classic book about the art and spirit of fishing. We are one of the earliest conservation organizations to set an aggressive course to defend wild America by changing public policy. Almost every major, successful conservation program that America has in place today can be traced directly to a League activity or initiative.

Community
Our work is guided entirely by grassroots volunteers. Throughout more than 240 communities, our chapters advance the mission of the Izaak Walton League – restoring watersheds, reducing air pollution, fighting litter, protecting wildlife habitat and open spaces, and instilling conservation ethics in outdoor recreationists.

Common Sense
The environment is everyone's issue. We believe that America needs smart solutions that are good for the environment and the economy at the same time. Relying on our unique blend of community-based conservation and common-sense advocacy, the League has made significant progress to protect and restore our nation's waters, promote clean energy, and advance sustainable agriculture.

Mission Statement
To conserve, restore, and promote the sustainable use and enjoyment of our natural resources, including soil, air, woods, waters, and wildlife."


Those who wish to label all conservationists as "tree huggers" only prove their ignorance of the matter.

I agree, conservation groups are not "tree huggers" The definition of conservation is "the wise use of natural resources" groups like Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, and North American Wild Sheep Foundation are all conservation groups. They are not tree huggers. People tend to use "conservation group" when they mean animal protectionist or animal rights group.

Can you tell us how the Izaak Walton League feels about these bans in the trade of ivory?

 

[Sidehill Gouger]

Not so in the USA. Today I can sell the ivory trinkets that belonged to one of my great grandmothers and do so legally. The proposals are to ban the legality of me selling them or buying others not me owning them or passing them down the generations.


Apparently not everyone does. Clarity is key.

About passing everything down through multiple generations of a family. Maybe a person needs to get a little older and be forced to deal with cleaning out a parent's possessions to understand what really happens. What you quickly find is that more often than not younger members of the family don't want or place the same value on their parent's prized collections of whatever. You are then forced to sell the items for whatever you can get out of them. In the case of ivory, it would appear to me you will be forced to simply destroy these items and throw them in the garbage. Offering to let the original owners keep the items but not sell them at some point is the same as reducing their value to zero.

 

[ron_m80]

Not so in the USA. Today I can sell the ivory trinkets that belonged to one of my great grandmothers and do so legally. The proposals are to ban the legality of me selling them or buying others not me owning them or passing them down the generations.

Well at least i can tell what you meant now. Most people wouldn't consider being "allowed" to sell grandma's trinket as a "trade" or "market", but it seems you do, so there in lies my confusion.

 

[Mark Knapp]

Well at least i can tell what you meant now. Most people wouldn't consider being "allowed" to sell grandma's trinket as a "trade" or "market", but it seems you do, so there in lies my confusion.

Yep, that's what we mean by "trade", that's what we want to be able to continue to do. We have no legal international trade. We would like to preserve the right to trade legal ivory within the U.S.

 

[Mark Knapp]

I have started a new thread about ivory laws in the "knife laws" sub forum. It is stickied to the top. If you ever need information about what's legal and what is not check there. I will be adding to it as things change, keeping you abreast of "the fight" and how to use ivory.

Here's the link http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...vory-for-knives-or-buy-sell-knives-with-ivory

Check in often.

 

[leghog]

I agree, conservation groups are not "tree huggers" The definition of conservation is "the wise use of natural resources" groups like Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, and North American Wild Sheep Foundation are all conservation groups. They are not tree huggers. People tend to use "conservation group" when they mean animal protectionist or animal rights group.

Can you tell us how the Izaak Walton League feels about these bans in the trade of ivory?

Doesn't effect outdoor America, now or for future generations, so there is no IWLA stance on ivory.

 

[leghog]

Not so in the USA. Today I can sell the ivory trinkets that belonged to one of my great grandmothers and do so legally. The proposals are to ban the legality of me selling them or buying others not me owning them or passing them down the generations.

About passing everything down through multiple generations of a family. Maybe a person needs to get a little older and be forced to deal with cleaning out a parent's possessions to understand what really happens. What you quickly find is that more often than not younger members of the family don't want or place the same value on their parent's prized collections of whatever. You are then forced to sell the items for whatever you can get out of them. In the case of ivory, it would appear to me you will be forced to simply destroy these items and throw them in the garbage. Offering to let the original owners keep the items but not sell them at some point is the same as reducing their value to zero.

Both my parents are dead. When Dad, who survived Mom, died we dealt with his estate by divying it up between us six siblings and selling the rest. NOT ONE of my brothers (all married and all with daughters) or sisters (both married and both with daughters) wanted my great grandmother's ivory trinkets/jewelry, so I took them (and my twin and I are the youngest of the six). I didn't necessarily want them, but I didn't have destroy them either and wouldn't sell them. They are in a box. My kids can deal with them when I'm gone. That'll be easy because one of my daughters (who is now 28) has said she'd like them. If I'm still alive, I'll give them to her on her 35th birthday. If I die before then, she'll get them anyway. Don't assume because one generation doesn't want them, the next may not. If trade is banned, destroying inherited ivory is not the only option.

So, please, don't lecture me on dealing with deceased parents' property, ivory or otherwise. Been there. Done that.

 

[leghog]

Well at least i can tell what you meant now. Most people wouldn't consider being "allowed" to sell grandma's trinket as a "trade" or "market", but it seems you do, so there in lies my confusion.

Trade = buying, selling, trading one thing for another thing of value.

 

[Sidehill Gouger]

Both my parents are dead. When Dad, who survived Mom, died we dealt with his estate by divying it up between us six siblings and selling the rest. NOT ONE of my brothers (all married and all with daughters) or sisters (both married and both with daughters) wanted my great grandmother's ivory trinkets/jewelry, so I took them (and my twin and I are the youngest of the six). I didn't necessarily want them, but I didn't have destroy them either and wouldn't sell them. They are in a box. My kids can deal with them when I'm gone. That'll be easy because my oldest daughter who is now 28 has said she'd like them. If I'm still alive, I'll give them to her on her 35th birthday. If I die, she'll get them anyway. Don't assume because one generation doesn't want them, the next may not. If trade is banned, destroying inherited ivory is not the only option.

So, please, don't lecture me on dealing with deceased parents' property, ivory or otherwise. Been there. Done that.

At some point, no one in your family will want these items. Saying "I'll be dead then" won't change that fact. With this ivory ban, they become so much useless garbage that potentially can land you in legal trouble. And don't lecture me either, I've cleaned out both my wife's parent's homes, my dad's and a couple of uncles and aunts. Prized collections of knickknacks were so much yard sale junk. Hand embroidered linens became oil rags. No one wanted the antique family quilts and tons of stuff went straight to the dump. If you can't sell it, it is just junk.

 

[22-rimfire]

Trade = buying, selling, trading one thing for another thing of value.

Yeah, like trading money for goods. Trade store..... old time expression. I am going to the store and do some trading....

 

[leghog]

At some point, no one in your family will want these items.

And they'll be out nothing. It's not something they bought or earned and if they don't want it (as was the case when my parents died) and don't have the foresight to save it for a future generation (not the case when my parents died), the heirs will be out nothing they earned or merited.

Saying "I'll be dead then" won't change that fact.

Being dead I just won't care then, will I? If I don't care enough NOW to ensure the next generation at least saves it for future generations, it really doesn't matter does it. If it did, I'd plan for it.

With this ivory ban, they become so much useless garbage that potentially can land you in legal trouble.

If that's what the next generation thinks of it, yes, useless garbage.

And don't lecture me either, I've cleaned out both my wife's parent's homes, my dad's and a couple of uncles and aunts. Prized collections of knickknacks were so much yard sale junk. Hand embroidered linens became oil rags. No one wanted the antique family quilts and tons of stuff went straight to the dump. If you can't sell it, it is just junk.

If tons of it went to the dump, why then worry whether selling those prized collections and hand embroidered linens is banned or not banned?

Your own example doesn't support your argument.